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tux99

PCLinuxOS 2009.1 Final Released

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While this is getting a bit off topic in this thread, I'm speaking for myself and that's my opinion, I haven't bashed stability (as I never used the early versions of KDE4) or anything else, it's not about bashing, it's my opinion based on my experience with it so far (certainly NOT speculation!).
I was not saying that you bashed earlier versions of KDE4. The reference to speculation was for the last comment regarding the developers (not that I am one) motives.

 

If the KDE developers (or any developers) don't like criticism then they shouldn't publish their code, they are free to ignore my (and that of many other formerly happy KDE 3.x users) criticism, but then they shouldn't be surprised if they loose users.
Agreed, but where's the constructive part of your criticism? Have they got nothing right with the new desktop?

 

And explain me one thing, why should I spend considerable effort in getting used to a 'new way' of doing things if the 'new way' is actually by far not as good as the 'old way' (there needs to be a benefit that is worth the effort!)?

It's for similar reasons that Vista is turning out to be a failure...

It's not for me to tell you how to spend your time. What I would say however is give the desktop a chance to mature. Give the developers a chance to deliver their vision in its entirety before giving a final verdict.

 

I hope I've not rubbed you up the wrong way. I'm not attacking you or your views. I'm just responding to your post. :)

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I agree with viking777, the problem with KDE 4.x is not so much the missing bits (which will eventually disappear) but the fact that they have made it very unintuitive and frustrating to use, it's not even in it self logical, it uses different ways to do the same things in different places, in other words, IMHO it's a usability nightmare.

Yes I know it's possible to get used to everything, but I refuse to try to get used to an irrational desktop evironment, a desktop environment is supposed to help you make efficient use of your computer, ideally a perfect desktop environment should not require any time to be accustomed to by being completly logical and intuitive, not force you to almost do a training course for it's usage first.

 

I think the KDE4.x developers got off the right track with KDE4.x creating a self-celebrating desktop, with the idea in mind that the user should spend more time playing around with the desktop environment than actually using real programs.

 

Congratulations tux99 that is an excellent post and one with which I wholeheartedly agree. KDE4 is the Linux equivalent of Windows Vista, the software that nobody wants because it just doesn't work - and it never will because it seems to have been designed by 10 year olds who only value form over function. {BBI}Nexus{BBI} says that it has been bashed for stability - well not by me- I have run every single version that has been released from day 1 till now and I have never had it crash, ever. But that doesn't matter because, as you said, it is so irrational, in fact it is a disgrace to the Linux name. I have got to be honest with you, I have an almost fundamental hatred of this DE. The reason for that is exactly as I posted above, they know how to produce a world beating DE, they have done it in KDE3, but they persist with this crap which is eventually going to be consigned to the dustbin of history amongst the other also ran's like Vista and ME.

 

:zombie:

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I disagree. Vista is a failure because it's effectively XP, albeit less stable and way more resources hungry, while the new things it has to offer are just dubious eyecandy and DRM nonsensical limitations.
I deliberately avoided responding to the Vista comparison. However this sums it up nicely for me.

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Congratulations tux99 that is an excellent post and one with which I wholeheartedly agree. KDE4 is the Linux equivalent of Windows Vista, the software that nobody wants because it just doesn't work - and it never will because it seems to have been designed by 10 year olds who only value form over function. {BBI}Nexus{BBI} says that it has been bashed for stability - well not by me- I have run every single version that has been released from day 1 till now and I have never had it crash, ever. But that doesn't matter because, as you said, it is so irrational, in fact it is a disgrace to the Linux name. I have got to be honest with you, I have an almost fundamental hatred of this DE. The reason for that is exactly as I posted above, they know how to produce a world beating DE, they have done it in KDE3, but they persist with this crap which is eventually going to be consigned to the dustbin of history amongst the other also ran's like Vista and ME.

 

:zombie:

LOL, I just couldn't let this one pass. viking777, you have consistently (i'm going to drop the word bashed as it is too vague) criticized the new desktop from day one and vowed never to use it! Now you reveal you have been using it all along. You've confused me now :huh: ;) I thought I could rely on your hatred for KDE4 to keep me warm on cold nights :lol2:

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Agreed, but where's the constructive part of your criticism? Have they got nothing right with the new desktop?

I mentioned a while ago in some other thread, that IMHO KDE 3.5 was next to perfect, all they needed to do, is continue perfecting it (porting it to qt4.x for example) rather than starting from scratch.

But I guess (and this is speculation!) that (understandably) wasn't fun enough for the coders, so they decided to start something completely different from scratch.

What irritates me is that they called it KDE4, they should have called it KDENB 1.0 (KDE new beginning) or anything else to make clear in the name, that this is something entirely different than KDE3, not just a major upgrade.

It's a bit like if Linus Torvalds decided to throw away the entire current kernel code and start again from scratch, but calling it Linux 2.8.

 

It's not for me to tell you how to spend your time. What I would say however is give the desktop a chance to mature. Give the developers a chance to deliver their vision in its entirety before giving a final verdict.

I will, I'm giving every new major release a go (primarily by trying the latest Mandriva releases), but at the moment KDE4 is so far from my liking that I fear it will take a quite a while to become usable for me (if ever).

 

I hope I've not rubbed you up the wrong way. I'm not attacking you or your views. I'm just responding to your post. :)

No problem, but I really think we are off topic here in this thread, just to get back on topic, I must say that I'm glad that there are still distros like the latest PCLinuxOS who keep KDE 3.5 alive! :)

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LOL, I just couldn't let this one pass. viking777, you have consistently (i'm going to drop the word bashed as it is too vague) criticized the new desktop from day one and vowed never to use it! Now you reveal you have been using it all along. You've confused me now :huh: ;) I thought I could rely on your hatred for KDE4 to keep me warm on cold nights :lol2:

 

Simple answer to that my friend, I haven't been using it all along. When a new version comes out (like 4.2) I read all the reports saying how good it is and I am open minded enough to give it a try, but up to date it has never failed to disappoint and I go back to Xfce or KDE3.

 

Still I am glad I keep someone amused with my rants, they are kind of therapeutic, but I wouldn't like to think I was doing it entirely for my own amusement :D

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i don't like pclinuxos to be honest, its just old mandriva, only uglier.Drake tools are using 2007, and they still use printer drake, which mandriva themselves abandoned.Maybe some like kde 3.5, i don't, it is annoying after using kde4, and even if you like kde3, don't you think they should at least include kde4 in repos and maybe other environments like E17 and XFCE?Package management in PClinuxOs is limited, and i personally hate sysnaptics, rpmdrake is much easier to use, urmpi is fast, and rpmdrake doesn't screw up all the time like other distros do.I HATE the pclinuxos 2009 theme, it is soo heavy ugly, and i don't see how its more "user friendly" compared to mandy, i feel pclinuxos took the easy way out by keeping old kernel, old kde, old everything as long as it "works " ok although the bleeding edge mandy works better

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I'm sorry to say that because of KDE4 i dumped Mandriva off my system, Which is sad because i've been using it since"Venus" Mandrake 6.0 And yes i also installed Kde 3.5 but within Mandriva 2009 it ran terrible.. Right now PClinuxOS is rock soild.. And as for Kde 3.5 is was IMHO almost perfect. Again if KDE4 worked for you than Great, To me it's a matter of preference and resources. Hopefully Mandriva 2010 will bring me back. Hopefully Kde 4.2 will fix all the problems but we'll see.

:)

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I'm sorry to say that because of KDE4 i dumped Mandriva off my system, Which is sad because i've been using it since"Venus" Mandrake 6.0 And yes i also installed Kde 3.5 but within Mandriva 2009 it ran terrible.. Right now PClinuxOS is rock soild.. And as for Kde 3.5 is was IMHO almost perfect. Again if KDE4 worked for you than Great, To me it's a matter of preference and resources. Hopefully Mandriva 2010 will bring me back. Hopefully Kde 4.2 will fix all the problems but we'll see.

:)

 

I agree wholeheartedly with you about Kde 3.5 and Pclos, though sadly I don't share your hope that Kde4.2 will alter things. You can't 'fix' anything that is fundamentally flawed in its design and concept, you can only start again from scratch (or Kde3.5 :D ).

 

You will just have to learn to like Xfce for now I think until the Kde team pluck up enough courage to admit their own mistakes.

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And uhhh... what's the problem with XFCE 4.6? It's a great, great, GREAT DE.

My only complaint is that when entering very populated directories, thunar uses a lot of time and resources until it displays the contents (krusader uses fractions of a second, and konqueror/dolphin way less time... while MC opens the same directory almost instantly). But this is an inherent problem of GTK+, nothing that can be done about it.

Maybe someone/sometime has to write a DE based on XFCE ideas, but coded in QT 4.5.

QT 4.5 is a superb coding platform- it's a shame really that it's only used on buggy and bloated KDE 4.X, while the lameduck GTK+ is used on most other DE's...

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And uhhh... what's the problem with XFCE 4.6? It's a great, great, GREAT DE.

 

Nothing whatsoever, I didn't say or even imply that it had a problem, I don't know where you got that idea from.

 

But if you want to get rid of your Thunar worries then just install Xfe on it and it will blow your socks off :lol2:

Edited by viking777

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xfe is a rather great graphical filemanager, but it does not do something mc is not able to do.

Rather the contrary: mc enters rars, zips, tarballs and displays their contents, it connects to ftp/sftp/various network resources without a hiccup, while xfe does not.

mc is really a console filemanager, but I have still not found a single reason to prefer xfe over it. Thunar? Yeah, maybe... Krusader? Superb filemanager, but... KDE dependencies. Total Commander via wine? Absolutely stunning, but no unicode yet, and no simple things as symlinking and editing non-user config files (noone mildly sane likes to run wine as root- does he?).

Edited by scarecrow

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I agree wholeheartedly with you about Kde 3.5 and Pclos, though sadly I don't share your hope that Kde4.2 will alter things. You can't 'fix' anything that is fundamentally flawed in its design and concept, you can only start again from scratch (or Kde3.5 :D ).

 

You will just have to learn to like Xfce for now I think until the Kde team pluck up enough courage to admit their own mistakes.

 

I have to believe that the DEV Team over at KDE; are seeing that people are either switching to different desktop environments like Gnome, and Xfce. Or staying put on Kde 3.5.. I personally know of at least 10 people who have dumped Kde4 for gnome or Xfce. When i ask them why not switch back to 3.5. They saying sooner or later KDE will abandon 3.5 for 4+ with no more updates or fixes. And they don't want to be force into accepting it. So ya i think that seeing people leave, will cause kde to take a long hard look at kde4...

Edited by Shadowchaser

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