scoopy Posted August 4, 2003 Report Share Posted August 4, 2003 If anybody remembers, I have been trying to accomplish the same things I do in photoshop with the gimp. Well I finally figured out the animation part, but I seem to be missing something now when reducing the image or converting stuff to a gif format. Here's the version I did with the gimp: <---The one to the left, I redone with photoshop. Maybe the gimp is still just a bit unrefined or the nature of the gif format, or maybe I got some strange gimp release. I am running version 1.3.11 (gimp1_3-1.3.11-1mdk.i586.rpm) that I forgot where I got it from. The look of this version was much cleaner than the one that came with MDK 9.1 (version. 1.2.3) and seemed to operate much smoother (like the magic wand, clone, and other tools). The splash screen has some arabic (or whatever) characters on it. So the questions I want to propose here: Am I using a standard version? What are our resident graphical wizards using here (tyme, DOlson, etc)?. Will Adobe ever see our need? Or will the gimp soon be ready for the professional market? *disclaimer: The penguin was taken from a wallpaper I found at: http://art.gnome.org/index.php. I added the sheriff's badge and the red strobe effect.[/url] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iphitus Posted August 4, 2003 Report Share Posted August 4, 2003 I rememver reading an article about a designer who moved to Linux, he used Gimp. (not sure what version) He said his productivity was increased because it was not only faster but hadn't ever crashed, linux and gimp. :D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sarah31 Posted August 4, 2003 Report Share Posted August 4, 2003 So the questions I want to propose here:Am I using a standard version? What are our resident graphical wizards using here (tyme, DOlson, etc)?. Will Adobe ever see our need? Or will the gimp soon be ready for the professional market? 13.x is the development branch. dunno. likely not until there is an expressed desire of the majority of linux users to want to pay for software and they feel that they can make a go of a linux version. hmmm...there is potential for gimp to be professional caliber but there needs to be more work done. i know a graphic artist that likes the gimp but would never use it for his work simply because the colour palette does not match the capabilities of illustrator/photoshop. adobe's colour palette can match their colour standard's (don't remember the name of it at the moment). ps i know there are alot of people out there that do or will pay for good linux software but i have to be serious and say these people are not in the majority. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scoopy Posted August 4, 2003 Author Report Share Posted August 4, 2003 James, That's defianately one reason I would like to do more with the gimp. Sarah, yep, I think I got a dev's version. From what I seen, the last normal version is 1.2.5. I could of sworn I was able to open PSD files before, but now I can't. I agree with gimp is the most likely to succeed for us few that want more. I am hoping maybe now that MAC's OS is so similiar, maybe this would make porting Adobe stuff that much easier (?). New thought? What program do you suppose people use to make things like this penguin, or icons sets and themes such as, liquid? Maybe blender ? That layer converted pretty good... it was just my add-ons (badge and red strobe) that lost the most detail. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tyme Posted August 4, 2003 Report Share Posted August 4, 2003 make sure when you save your images you set the quality at a reasonable level. liquid can sorta be done in gimp...I think. anyways, linuxartist.com is a good place for info in this area...althought I can't seem to get to it right now :? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest xaff Posted August 4, 2003 Report Share Posted August 4, 2003 I hate the GIMP. It's just to.. Something that I can't put my finger on. The fact that I've been using Adobe PS since v5 could have something to do with that. ;P So in my oppinion, no, The GIMP will not be ready for the professional market, not for a long time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aRTee Posted August 5, 2003 Report Share Posted August 5, 2003 For me things are easy: GIMP is free, PS is not. I don't do/use pirated software. As for UI, you have to get used to things. I like the way they did things in the GIMP, right click, being able to tear of any menu and keep it. Remember, in the GIMP on linux, you just have one workspace/desktop purely for the GIMP. People used to windows hate the window cluttering, but then often they have all on one single desktop... I disagree that Linux users don't want to pay for software. But I agree with Adobe, if they port photoshop, people would just copy it and not buy. So wasted money for them. What I really can't stand is people who say that the GIMP is just not good enough due to the features it lacks. Let me clarify: some professionals really need certain features. But most people bitching are using a pirated copy and don't really need the features they are bitching about, often I think they are just pointing out the shortcomings that they heard someone else mention who really needs those features. Notably: CMYK colours (which will come in the new branch at some point), which is needed for professional press, and 16bit colour (48 in total, instead of 24). Other issues: like not liking the UI, like having problems with a moving gif etc is fair. But are you using an officially licensed PS? In that case, I see no reason why you can't afford a license of crossover office which would allow you to use PS on linux. BTW on crossover and office/ps like apps, there's not really much of a performance loss, so no point not to go that path. If you (anyone in general - not anyone here in person) don't have a license of PS, how dare you bitch about features of GIMP that don't function properly or that are lacking???? Naturally, it's fine to complain and especially indicate better solutions or indicate errors/bugs. But with bitching I mean: really putting down GIMP with no other reason then to tell how great PS is. I sometimes wish the BSA was more active in getting to home users. That would do wonders for FLOSS/linux/GNU/GIMP/KDE/GNOME etc... On the other hand, Adobe will come too late to the needs of those who won't run PS though wine (whatever version), IMHO. They won't port until there are enough (paying) users. But people don't move until the software suffices to them. So as the userbase will only be using linux when free software alternatives suite their needs, porting once there are enough users means they are already using a free alternative, and not likely pay, especially the hefty price on PS... Look at making pdf's. Is there anyone who would pay for that under linux?? Look at cd burning; Nero was supposed to get ported. Now with K3B I really don't see who would pay for Nero on linux. So FLOSS is filling the needs first, then people move over to it. The userbase of Linux is not going to buy anything they need since they already have it; they would not be using linux otherwise. To all proprietary companies: - this means: if people are still on windows due to your app not being available on linux, you can port now and sell, or you can wait for them to switch and not ever sell to them, since they will only switch once they have found a substitute. (Not counting those very few who switch and then use wine..) To get back to PS vs GIMP: I understand xaff, being used to something and being handy with it is not something that you likely throw away. One of the reasons that so many who really managed to get to the inside of MSWindows (as far as that is possible) and who actually have what it takes to really learn linux, don't want to learn/move to linux. Throw away all they learnt? Start over from scratch? With a system that is/appears to be in some ways less polished? And I agree, GIMP will not be ready for the professional market. But it doesn't have to be. It has to be ready for the enthusiast home user, who cannot afford PS. And I think we all agree that GIMP beats anything (MS Paint up to and including Paint Shop Pro) except PS. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iphitus Posted August 5, 2003 Report Share Posted August 5, 2003 For me things are easy:GIMP is free, PS is not. I don't do/use pirated software. I know someone who was tunning a windex system with total pirated software. OS (XP), office, photoshop (i'm not offtopic!), everything. He even removed Windex Media PLayer and removed freebies. Crazy, he coulda just got Linux.... James Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DOlson Posted August 5, 2003 Report Share Posted August 5, 2003 The whole CMYK argument is bogus. Many, if not all, printing places accept WORD DOCUMENTS these days. You can't tell me that Word documents are better than anything that the Gimp can save as... It's all a lie. Anyhow, the work being done on Gimp right now is REALLY good. And much needed. I can't count how many times I've wanted a cursor the size of the brush I'm using, and now, FINALLY, after years of using the Gimp, there it is... Another thing that I really liked from Painter 3D was image hoses... Gimp appears to have these now too. Not sure if Photoshop has that, but I know the versions I used didn't... But this was a few years ago. It's really easy to make these brushes too, as you just save them as GIH (Gimp Image Hose), and each layer is a different element, so I'm going to play with this some. It should be good for making grass and tree leaves and stuff like that. Here is a quick sample so you have an idea of what I can do in 10 seconds with image hoses: http://aslan.no-ip.com/~dana/images/imagehoses.jpg Photoshop has some easier methods of recording macros, whereas Gimp relies on ScriptFu... I don't use ScriptFu yet, because I don't feel the need to learn Perl or whatever it uses... I did use the macro stuff from Photoshop once, and I must say, it was well done. Do I need this? No, but someone might "require" it, for various degrees of "require", for their work or whatever. In my opinion, Gimp is good enough, and it will get better. I'm not going to jump ship when Photoshop gets ported. Nope. I'm going to stick to Gimp for good. If I knew how to code, I'd help them improve it, but sadly, the paint program I made was C.R.A.P. and I would only slow them down. I love the Gimp. The unfortunate thing about it is that most of the people who use it (or I should say, many Linux users) don't know how to create clean graphics... Have a look around at the logos and stuff you see everywhere... I hate to say it, but look at the old TuxGames pengiun, compared with the new one: http://aslan.no-ip.com/~dana/images/two_tuxes.png Gimp has read and wrote PSD files for a long long time... Years. Not sure what this has to do with anything though. :) I never did try animating, but if you wanna send me the PSD file of that animation, I'll see what I can do with it in Gimp. Mail it to me at dana@mandrakeusers.org The stuff about not owning a legal copy of Photoshop is spot on. I was replacing all of my warezed software at one point in time, and I found free replacements for almost everything. I was down to Windows and Streets and Trips. Then I replaced Windows with Linux, and Streets and Trips with MapQuest.com. :D All is well now. The point is, I settled on things that did everything, or almost everything, that I needed or wanted. I did so because I knew that I was using illegal software, and I wanted to do the right thing. I couldn't afford Photoshop, Office, etc etc. You get what you pay for, and in the case of Linux, we're given many graces... We don't have to pay for most of our software, or at least not in the case of Gimp, and yet it is so great how it is... It's hard to get this point across to some people... If you don't have a legal right to use Photoshop, you really have no business to complain about Gimp or Linux's lack of Photoshop, since you wouldn't buy it if it was ported anyhow. Anyhow, I don't know why I'm posting stuff in here, but I think someone told me to... ;) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scoopy Posted August 5, 2003 Author Report Share Posted August 5, 2003 We have seemed to wondered off a bit here. Assuming "If I run ps --- its got to be a pirated copy" instead of, Photoshop is the one app I would be willing to pay for (at a reasonable price), but I see tha I am in the minority on this one. I was looking on what I need to get up to par with the gimp. My goal here was to get the most out of gimp as possible. Switching from say, Nero to K3B, is generally no problem because it feels and operates the same. With gimp, it's like trying to drive in a foreign country --- on the wrong side of the road and reading strange looking roadsigns --- but your car still has gas, brakes, and a stearing wheel. Well, I am trying to learn to drive on this other side and it looks like I just may get myself hooked on the gimp before Adobe can sell me another copy. aRTee, I had looked at crossover before and seen version 2 only claimed to work with PS version 7. Just checking now they claim previous versions may also work. I will have to try my older LEGAL copy sometime soon and see if it works. DOlson, Thanks for stopping by. Sized brushes/tools...and PSD support... I guess I need to find the correct gimp version. I especially look forward to any improvements in colorspacing and gamma correction, so I can print exactly what my screen displays. Will probally have to uninstall this version I got and find the good one. Will then mess around some more and see what I can do. Can't wait for version 2. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
banjo Posted August 5, 2003 Report Share Posted August 5, 2003 Content! Content! Content! It is a poor craftsman who blames his tools. I prefer to spend my energy on the creation of my images than on comparisons of the tools. I have just started using The Gimp, and it appears to me that the toolset is rich enough to keep me busy for many years........ but then, I have not used PhotoShop either........... I think that I will stick with The Gimp until I come up with some radical ideas for images that cannot be handled by it........ which will be a long time from now, and then perhaps I will go look for a better tool. Banjo (_)=='=~ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michel Posted August 5, 2003 Report Share Posted August 5, 2003 I was browsing arounf a couple a days ago, and also visited the gimp-website again and read some tutorilas....I think you can do a lot with the gimp, but (liek said above already) not so easy....There are also a lot of plugins for teh gimp, just viosit the plugin-page of the gimp (http://registry.gimp.org/index.jsp)....really A LOT and I've found some plugins I want to test out....I'm not saying that photoshop is better than the gimp or the gimp is better than photoshop, but I get the impression the gimp is good.... loog at this site...go to the gallery: http://gug.sunsite.dk/ something for people who are looking for images to use: http://gimp-savvy.com/PHOTO-ARCHIVE/index.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
banjo Posted August 5, 2003 Report Share Posted August 5, 2003 Great web sites! I was not aware of those. Thanks for the pointers. Banjo (_)=='=~ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DOlson Posted August 6, 2003 Report Share Posted August 6, 2003 Interesting, yet stupid (IMHO) article: http://www.eweek.com/article2/0,3959,1210083,00.asp I don't believe in Wine as a final solution. It's really too bad that Adobe is ignoring us for the time being... But I think it will be ported over, it's just a matter of time. Now, onto the rest of the thread. I wasn't saying specifically YOU, I just mean in general, people compare software that they warezed with the free alternatives, and are totally unforgiving... It's sad. I'm not saying you are in this category, because I don't know that for certain, and I'm not accusing you. I was just agreeing with the other poster. Now, to say that Gimp is totally different from Photoshop isn't really fair... The only noticable difference is how Photoshop's interface is laid out - all in one window - compared to Gimp's multiple windows. The tool icons are usually self-explanatory, and in the instances where it isn't, the tooltips do just fine. There are some differences between the two, yes, but overall, they aren't that different. If you know how to use Photoshop, you should have a good grasp of the Gimp if you try to use it for a week or so. I found the difference between Photoshop and Paint Shop Pro to be greater than the differences between Gimp and Photoshop. I agree with Banjo, when he says that a poor craftsman blames his tools... However, you do need time to get adjusted to new tools, so I think it's just a matter of finding out the subtle differences. I will offer whatever help I can, but I'm not sure what exactly you need help with. You can try contacting me online using ICQ, MSN, AIM, Yahoo, or IRC, if you wish, and I can try helping you that way. Grokking the Gimp is an AWESOME book, IMHO. You can install it in Debian using the command: `apt-get install grokking-the-gimp` or you can look for a hard copy at your local bookstore. You can find it online as well. It's pretty cool. Now, I opened your avatar in Gimp and then saved it as a differently-named .GIF file again, and I didn't experience the degradation of color like you did... I don't know why. The "good" version of Gimp is 1.3.17, which you can install in Debian using `apt-get install gimp-1.3`. It's what I use, and it's always being updated every few weeks or so. However, PSD support has been around for a few years. I remember that being one of the first things I tried out when I discovered Gimp for Windows. And again, I can't stress enough how cool image hoses are! I'm so glad that Gimp has this now! Plugins rock for Gimp. There are a lot, and you can make your own if you know how. Same goes for Photoshop I guess, but there are lots of free ones for Gimp. One thing that I'd love to see for Gimp is Kai's Power Tools. I tried those once, and they were neat. Anyhow, I think I've lost track of what we were discussing, so yeah, I can answer any questions for you to the best of my ability, but the best way is to talk in real-time. Unfortunately, I work nights, so my hours might be messed up for you. But who knows? Good luck, and just keep messing with it. You'll get the hang of it all. ;) EDIT: Of further interest, here is something very neat: Overview of Changes in GIMP 1.3.17================================== - Made the text tool optionally create a path [sven, Mitch] - Added the ability to reverse gradients to the blend tool [Mitch] - Added dithering to the blend tool [Alastair M. Robinson] - Changed all(?) GIMP-1.4 references to GIMP-2.0 [sven] - Allow to transform paths using the transform tools [Mitch] - Added a simple CMYK color selector [sven] - Added naive RGB <-> CMYK conversion routines [sven] - Generalized paint tools [Mitch] - Finally a brush-shaped cursor for all paint tools [Mitch] - Started to integrate new composite functions [Helvetix] - Made the style for dockable tabs configurable [Mitch] - Some preparations for text transformations [sven] - Store grid settings in XCF [brix] - Redone assembly checks and run-time checks for CPU features [sven] - Added lots of mnemonics to the menus [Jimmac] - Support for comments in PNG files [sven] - Constified the libgimp API and adapted all plug-ins [Yosh, Sven] - Cleaned up the brush/font/gradient/pattern selector API [Mitch] - Support for patterns with alpha channel [bolsh] - Lots of bug fixes Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DOlson Posted August 6, 2003 Report Share Posted August 6, 2003 By the way, whoever posted the GUG link, THANK YOU!!! That has some GREAT tutorials on it. :) Scoopy, check out the GIF tutorial on there to see about Indexed Colors and stuff. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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