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Guest mahiles
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DVD encrytption is multi level

1) Region coding

there are 6 regions. In theory you can't play a US DVD in Europe etc.

Its nothing to do with the PAL/NSSC thing, simply a lock to stop people buying DVD's where they are cheapest.

This is usually firmware based (EEPROM)

 

2) css encryption

This is software based. The idea is to restrict the platform to windows or a HW DVD player.

 

3) Copy protection.

This is third party, it's idea is to randomly change the color signature, A TV handles this but a video recorder doesn't.

 

IMHO

1) I kinda understand BUT it is illegal in some countries. Its debatable under UK law for instance because only pharmacuticals are allowed to have thier retail price fixed.

 

2) This is IMHO completely unsupportable. Apple onlt manged this a year or so ago.

 

3) I understand this. It is however still illegal under some countries law's.

 

So go figure on the legality... If Hollywood want to sell to the global villiage they shouldn't be allowed to pick and choose when they conform to other countries laws where they sell and when they don't. I can only understand the copy protection in terms of 'fairness' .

 

If you look at the history of css, its not like they crackers set out to make them copyable. They started out just wanting to be abler to play them under their choice of OS. Hollywood refused to cooperate so they were forced to break the encryption. Whilst they were at it they also broke the copy protection. IMHO this serves Hollywood right. They dismissed the right of people to choose the OS and they ended up loosing the copy protection. This is like a school bully suddenly meeting an unexpected match and getting not only a bloody nose but humiliated.

 

look at what they get out of DVD's. they cost cents to make as opposed to dollars for a VHS, they have reduced shipping costs in terms of size/weight and they charge more for it.

 

So

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Thanks for the extended explaination. I thought this was funny.

 

So, I'm checking out Debian for the first time and upgrading it to unstable (not really, it just means 'cutting edge') and after all the important sys stuff it's time for the fun stuff so, using synaptic/apt-get I search for xine, "hey cool there's that gxine that I've heard about so I'll get that to"...resolves deps....tells me I need other stuff, but doesn't mention libdvdcss (which I didn't expect it to)....downloads.....installs....and POP there's a window explaining the entire encryption thing bla bla bla....and the funny part is it then says (in short)'so debian will not install this pkg but if you run /usr/lib/bla/bla.sh it'll download and install it. 8) :lol: What's the diff? Debian rocks :twisted:

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Guest dardack

I use ogle, had an issue with it through the RPM's for mandrake, so had to compile it myself and it was a piece of cake and works great, especially like the no gui part, just key presses, and screen shots and all kinds of things, my player of choice. anyways just my two cents.

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Gowator, your points are in reality very true, though they were/are not presented as such by the movie industrie.

 

1) region codes: to protect cinemas around the world, originally or as an excuse. The point being that in the USA many movies came out on video when in Europe they were still making money in the cinemas.

They didn't have to worry about parallel import too much due to the fact that US tapes are NTSC and in Europe PAL and SECAM are used; of course there are players that can convert NTSC but it is an inferior format anyway. (Did I write that? Yes you bet. NTSC is not a good standard compared to PAL. SECAM is technically better than PAL, which is why the French (who else ;) I'm sure Gowator understands this remark.. :) ) developed it; however, the perceived difference between PAL and SECAM is nil...)

There are more than 6 region codes, there are just 6 regions, but for example dvds that are shown on airlines are code 8; and of course there is code 0 for code free dvd, a disc that plays on a player of any code.

 

So the big excuse being: region codes are needed to keep cinemas in business is always used but completely wrong, and that's why Gowator is dead on: it stops people from buying dvds where they are cheapest. Although where they are cheapest is in Asia, 1$, and trust me, those have no region code ;)

No css either btw.... :D

Anyway, the reason of why this separating is simple: in the audio cd business this didn't happen, and the labels have DIVIDED UP THE WORLD! Yes that's right, they are sort of kartels, which are actually forbidden. But a true kartel sets prices. They divide into regions and in each region the movie label can set the price. For audio this went bad so they had to get politicians on their side, to get import restrictions. This has now also happened for dvd's by the way, at least here in Switzerland...

In any case, for dvd they just went about it smarter. They also make sure that the language that are on the disc are not universal enough, like here in Switzerland, with 4 official languages (French, German, Italian and Rumanch), we get to see discs from Germany in the german part, french discs in the french part etc... and the french discs usually don't have german audio or subtitles. Another way to defend the territories....

 

The proof of all this: why are 10+ year old movies region coded?????

Really, Europe has a lot of work to do against this criminal action, Brussels doesn't seem to protect the citizens/consumers very well.....

 

 

2) CSS is the real copy protection, with the DMCA as the real thing. So it is legally based, not software based. (Actually, encryption is not software or hardware based, it is algorithm based...)

Why this is not real copy protection in itself is easy: make a bit by bit copy, and you will have the same movie. In other words, no matter what, as soon as something is digital a perfect lossless copy can be made.

So CSS is just in place to make sure that the home user cannot legally make a backup. And the DMCA was bought for that.

 

3) copy protection as you call it, is known as Macrovision; actually the tv doesn't handle it at all, video recorders handle it. In the wrong way.

The part where the teletext signal normally resides, betwewn 2 frames (images), the signal is alternately pumped up in luminance (white) and then down (black). The tv just tries to display this normally, but since it is outside of the image, no one notices. The vcr averages the signal with AGC (automatic gain contro) circuitry, and gets confused, so it turns to black and white etc to make the best of things. Very old vcrs with less sophisticated circuitry are actually not fooled by this, and just make a fine copy.

 

This macrovision / copy protection signal is added by the hardware or software, and this is one of the reasons that decss cannot be allowed.

 

Namely, with decss you can eventually pass the data without this macrovision disturbing signal.

 

On PC's, the region code is handled in 2 levels; the first is in the dvd-drive firmware, the second is in the dvd playback software (windvd, powerdvd etc). Of course the latter is not implemented in linux dvd players, but that leaves the first.

 

What most people don't know is that:

- All dvd-rom drives that are sold nowadays (at least here in Europe) are region limited. But they don't have a region selected, for the purpose of being able to sell the same model everywhere.

- on windows, the software player asks the dvd drive what code the dvd disc is, and what region code the drive itself is set to. If the drive is not set to any code, the firmware tells it to set to the region of the disc, if the (windows) software itself is also set to this region. Then the disc can be played, as all other discs of the same region. If a disc is played from another region, the drive firmware will count up by one, the max count is 5. Meaning: after 5 changes of region, the drive will not change it's region code anymore, but remain set to whatever region it was last locked into.

(Btw for Linux there is a tool to set the region, it may be that if you don't use that the dvd drive refuses to play -- think it is called regionset... )

 

So: if you have some region 2 discs (europe) and some region 1 discs (America), and 1 region 4 disc (Australia), and you swap a bit, then the fifth time you decide to play your one and only region 4 disc: it better be good, since that will be the only one that you are going to be playing!

 

Now, some drives were sold without this counting mechanism, they are called 'RPC-1' drives. They cannot be sold in most parts anymore, the drives that count to 5 are called 'RPC-2' drives. On the web you can find plenty of firmwares for RPC-2 drives that turn them into RPC-1 drives. See also: http://www.firmware-flash.com/

 

After that, you have no more problem in linux since xine and mplayer don't check the code anyway; on windows you need something like dvd-genie to fool windvd/powerdvd that the disc is from the same region as the player.

 

Now what I don't get, so please answer if you know it, is how they manage to get around the region code in windows with locked drives. They are pointing to some software, so it seems that you can tell your firmware to ignore whatever is going on and just play...

Does anyone know if that is also the case in linux?

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Guest dardack
ogle? yes, I installed that one when i installed xine and gxine. The gui for ogle stinks...I'll have to check out the term options.

 

yea don't like the gui, but i use a remote for my system so don't want one. after i compile ogle it works flawless for every movie i have. my personal favorite.

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