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The special french version of chapter eleven ended on July 27th (yeah this week), but they mentioned they were applying for a second such period.

 

During such a period, no shares may be traded.

 

Before that, as a clubmember I got mail about buying shares.

 

 

So to come to the initial question: yes I am a clubmember. I don't buy packs anyway, they are too late and low margin for Mdk.

So I prefer to send some money their way directly.

Indirectly I have/do the following:

-mdk oriented website

-pass mdk to anyone around me who might be interested (10 copies for 9.1; mdk sold 2x2 memberships due to that)

-help out sometimes on this and other boards; on other non-mdk (linux) boards I usually just check if people put 'Mandrake' or 'Mdk' in their topic title.

 

There are many ways that lead to rome (mdk profitability), paying them is just one. Check Rangers website, he requests that people get a membership since for him it is very expensive, so he supports Mdk by making rpms etcetc.

 

So: those who can should/may take a membership, those who can't afford that, can assist/support in those other ways.

 

Even if you don't know enough to make rpms, don't know enough to make a website, help people out on this (and other) forum(s), you can still get friends and family to use Mandrake. Also, you could share a clubmembership.

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I am certainly not criticising anyone for supporting mandrake, or becoming a member of the club. But I am concerned about a certain misconception with how to help mandrake. Giving money to the club, buying stock, donating, are all nice things to do. But it does not compare to establishing a retail flow. We, us users, need to convince mandrake to stop asking for money from sympathy, and start acting like a world class business and establish retail. I believe that their survival depends on it.

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I am certainly not criticising anyone for supporting mandrake, or becoming a member of the club. But I am concerned about a certain misconception with how to help mandrake. Giving money to the club, buying stock, donating, are all nice things to do. But it does not compare to establishing a retail flow. We, us users, need to convince mandrake to stop asking for money from sympathy, and start acting like a world class business and establish retail. I believe that their survival depends on it.

 

You have an excellent point. I'm sure if they could push there powerpacks into a few retail stores, there would be far fewer financial problems.

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up until 9.1 my local Staples (an office supplies store) carried Mandrake. 9.1 never appeared on their shelves. I don't know who's at fault for this, but just saying-it was on retail shelves, and it was even in a chain office supplies store here in the US.

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up until 9.1 my local Staples (an office supplies store) carried Mandrake.  9.1 never appeared on their shelves.  I don't know who's at fault for this, but just saying-it was on retail shelves, and it was even in a chain office supplies store here in the US.

 

Same here. Staples. I purchased Mandrake 8.2 box-set months after downloading the iso's. The two boxes there were covered with dust. I have ask the manager several times about 9.0 and 9.1 says he can't get word from staples headquaters. :roll:

 

 

xthusdan wrote:

I am certainly not criticising anyone for supporting mandrake, or becoming a member of the club. But I am concerned about a certain misconception with how to help mandrake. Giving money to the club, buying stock, donating, are all nice things to do. But it does not compare to establishing a retail flow. We, us users, need to convince mandrake to stop asking for money from sympathy, and start acting like a world class business and establish retail. I believe that their survival depends on it.

 

This is how I feel also.

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I'm not so sure about boxed sets.

 

The point being: "only" 'freaks' actually go out and get that to install.

 

Well, it is nice as a gift maybe.

 

But look at RH, not for nothing do they change their model.

 

Really, the way to go is to have (Mandrake) linux preinstalled. Instead of MSWindows.

 

Look at that deal with HP. Evesham (UK) is also selling preinstalled Mandrake systems. Too bad Wallmart switched, but I guess Michael Robertson would be the first guy to point at Mdk and say, hey those guys may not be around much longer, why not take LindowsOS?....

 

So really, the true future is on preinstalled preconfigured systems, and in the meantime linux (mandrake and others) will be done by those who are doing it now.

 

Whatever happens, you will always have better distribution on the internet. Why not use this medium as such: a distribution mechanism.

They cannot have Mdk packs in the stores everywhere in reasonable time, and to storeowners the 6 month development cycle is way too short anyway.

 

So, storeowners get tired of shipping back product or getting stuck with it; not everyone buys a pack each time (every 6 months) and ultimately packs are an inbetween solution.

Also, think of the bugs they (want to) fix in the final pack version, which implies they have a lag compared to the download edition.

Which means that all die-hard users already have the distro...

 

Mind you, everyone can get a 3 cd download version anywhere. Sure, not everybody has broadband, but if you really don't know anyone who can help you out there, I'm sorry, I'm just guessing that in that case a pack is too expensive as well.

 

I won't/don't mind sending a couple of copies around, I passed 10 mdk 9.1 copies to friends and colleagues.

I'm sure most Mdk users will do the same for their friends.

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ref:

http://www.mandrakesoft.com/company/invest...30724?wslang=en

They are reporting a 10 percent loss due to decrease in retail sales --- but are UP by 24 percent due to things such as the club. This is great for the time being, but how much longer do they expect to continue on this free ride of begging from the community?

 

They need to establish a solid retail plan like Ixthusdan says. I believe a solid 9.2 or 9.3 version might be a good start (8.3 would of been better, thus avoiding the current empty store shelves). People don't want to buy the buggy editions --- but one without --- would probally sell well despite newer, cutting-edge betas being available.

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Many good thoughts here. Some additional ones:

 

1) Downloading a distro implies you have a working os already. I am thinking more aggressively than that.

 

2) Yes, Mandrake needs to come along with the machine. It worked for ms. (I do not pretend to say that ms is there because it is better. So that point is pointless! :wink: )

 

3) Retailers need support. They need pop displays; they need a clean method of purchase; they need to know some what if's. like what if it doesn't sell? What if I need more fast? What if my customer calls me because when they call you, you don;t answer?

 

4) I believe that a different business model already exists with mandrake and this forum. It just needs some real business people to put it together. On Mandrake's end.

 

I can be slightly arogant, but mandrake needs to get some guts!! :shock:

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This just off the presses:

Apple to sell Macs at Best Buy

Seems Apple is beginning to realize the importance of having their product available at normal retail outlets. Would be nice if a Mandrake machine was sitting on a nearby shelf. Or even a nice Mandrake package to "upgrade their old, broken OS" without having to buy a whole new machine.

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Scoopy

 

This is proof that other players are seeing things similar to what I am seeing. Mandarke really needs to sit up and take notice. Note that apple is starting small. This only makes sense. They do noy want to come up short if demand rises too fast for production. They are being conservative because of their good reputation.

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Scoopy, I'm sorry, but I disagree.

 

I don't feel that Mandrake is begging. Yes, they were at that point last year.

Not right now. Many people see the advantage of the club.

Heck, I even needed it to get a good download mirror when 9.1 came out.

 

I see the clubmembership as a means to try before you buy.

 

True, they should advertise it better, since you're not the only one calling it begging.

 

But the truth of the matter is that Mandrake (download edition) is a fully GPL distro.

The only other ones are debian and gentoo. The big desktop distros have all put in proprietary stuff. LindowsOS being the worst, then others like Lycoris, Xandros, even SuSE. I'm not counting RH, since they are only aiming at the corporate desktop.

So with a fully gpl distro, how are you going to get money?? By asking for it. Hoping that of all users (who can be many, more than for a paid distro) enough value what you have created and pay for it.

 

Packs are not going to help out, due to the distribution problem, they will always be:

-late

-semi-outdated

-not up to date in terms of patches, so people still have to go on the web to get updates; this is ok for downloaders to do, but when I buy something in the shop, I expect it to be ok, maybe download a SP after 6 to 12 months. But not download stuff after just having bought the pack, it's not acceptable.

-the real users already have mdk download edition (5 euro, 5 dollars), interested people are not going to become mandrake users (or linux users, of any distro) because they see a pack and go for it.... they will first try (at least, in my experience) via a borrowed cd.

-shops won't like it, they don't like getting stuck with it and a product that is outdated 4 months after hitting the store is not good. 4 say you sir? Yessir!

4 months is all you get. The packs can only be made available after the download edition is released, (last rc becomes final usually, unless really nasty bugs show up, then they spin one more rc) then they take some time to get printed. Say 4 weeks until after the rc went final. Then you have 4 months until the next rc's show up. Today, I wouldn't buy a pack of 9.1 with 9.2 less than 2 months ahead of me. Not all think like me, but some, and I figure enough to make it a problem.

 

This apple example: are they selling Mac OS X or are they selling computers with it preinstalled?

Thought the latter.

 

Which is the way to go.

Preinstalled preconfigured systems.

 

Do you believe that MS gets more money out of boxed XP or preinstalled?

Mac OS X may be an exeption, but hey, we're talking religious fanatics in many cases there, and the group that needs to convert to mandrake is the standard pc user.

And the standard pc user is not going to install an OS that he doesn't know.

I have a colleague who had his computer blown up, he got new parts, put them together and you know what? He's the first I know who bought winXP (separately from a machine). I said 'Bad move, I stay away from MS as far as I can" He said " well I hate MS too, but I just had to have something that works"

So I was too late in getting him hooked on mdk, but also it shows that Joe Average does not want any hassle.

Btw this guy uses UNIX on a daily basis, it's not that he couldn't have managed. It's just that he had windows (98) before and wanted the same again, but better/newer etc. And the salesman got to him before I did. And trust me, no salesman in a standard computershop will advice linux in that case, because of the clueless customers coming back. Remember, if MSWin doesn't work, they can always say: that's the way it goes, you must have done something wrong.... go to MS....

 

 

Another thing on Packs: RH is not getting out of that for nothing. It's not an opening that Mandrake can jump into. I figure that RH has done their studies and despite being the largest pack seller, they realise it is not going anywhere and the resellers don't like it.

SuSE is okay on packs, but suse has proprietary stuff in there, so that's why you don't see SuSE on these 5euro/dollar sets that you can order on the web.

 

Look at the record industry, they are largely redundant due to the internet. Their model is wrong. Their model is also quite resembling to packs.

 

Preinstalled systems are the future, and Mandrake is doing ok for now, could be better, could be worse. LindowsOS is doing better I think.

They are the spinmeisters of marketing (look at their dvd offer!! don't think they pay anything to xine developers) and we don't want Mandrake to become like that do we?

Anyway, with HP and Evesham on the list, and more to follow, Mandrake is on the right path.

 

If I have time (after 9.2 comes out) I will see if I can revive my plan to sell pc's with mdk preinstalled....

 

BTW Ixthusdan, you raised some good points, like point 4.

On point 3: retailers can buy from machine builders, those are the ones delivering the hardware, those are the ones that may not be able to deliver. Installing mandrake on a standard machine does not need more than one floppy, a prepared server and an ethernet link. Same goes for 100 machines.

 

Why would a customer call if you deliver them with a preinstalled machine, one such as the one they got to play with in the shop?

Everything working, including dvd playback, mp3 etcetc.

 

My plan would be to give them the machine, charge for installing the OS and very slightly for the OS itself, then if they want support, they can get a subscription and/or pay for it.

The standard answer from most shops is: "did you look on the internet?" anyway...

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PR and advertising are aspects of doing business. I do not have anything against marketing. There is no way a business can succeed in a free country without marketing...pr and advertising. Mandrake does not do it period, and they need to do it. All of their current business plan is to extract as much money as they can from their adherents. This will eventually fail. (Unless y'all are rich!!)

 

The points made about mandrake's trouble with pathetic customer service and their inability to deliver a product in a timely manner are not reasons to ignore retail, they are problems that prevent success! And they are correctable! I expected the"new" exec to fix those issues, not go down some odd road!

 

You believe that "more info" needs to get out about the club, because of the begging image. Again, mraketing is the issue. A bad experience is told to 10 or more people. A good experience is told to 1 or 2 people. That's the facts of life! Marketing must be done to over come human psychology.

 

I like a free distro. Mandrake cannot make money for free. They must offer something for me to spend my money. And that includes buying it with the machine! This entire issue is crucial.

 

One last point, every computer that I have delivered needed a call-back at some point in time. They were not all real problems, but they were in the minds of my customer. What they wanted was service. If you deliver service, you will still have a customer. If you don't, even if the problem was not your responsibility, you will lose the customer. Ms has momentum. Mandrake needs to get going. It is hard work, but how hard is it to have the best os out there, and nobody wants it?

 

Marketingmarketingmarketingmarketingmarketingmarketingmarketing

 

:mystismiles:

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Ixthusdan,

 

Marketingmarketingmarketingmarketingmarketingmarketingmarketing

 

You have it spot on!

I agree with what you said wholeheartedly. Let's wait and see what the new exec is going to do; so far, the deal with HP is really good.

It was mentioned that they are working on more deals like that... that's where real money can be made.

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Definiately... Marketing.

 

Yes, I am with the idea that the club and deals with HP are making the money and should be the focus now, but to keep things rolling along, it will be vital to make the product available to the average Joe.

 

The few incidents I have experianced: One computer user, shopping WalMart along side of me, was eyeing up a Mandrake 8.0 box along with a ME upgrade. He said he was tired of those BSOD's. I too was looking for an alternative. Add two more customers and users. I don't know if he is still a user (most likely he went back due to the customer service at that time), but I am still here.

 

How bout those posts we see around the community. One for example right here: http://www.mandrakeusers.org/viewtopic.php...p?p=54470#54470

Another lost sale ?, because its not available. Not everyone wants to or can download the ISOs. And not everyone wants a new box with their new OS.

 

One by one add these up and are an important part of business down the road. Also, if I was in charge of a companies network and in the market for something newer and better, I don't think I would want to chance our system on the newest release floating around on the net. I would opt more for a tested and polished release... maybe that Mandrake 8.3 professional box set that should be on the shelfs now.

 

A good marketing program would help here... Whatever it takes to sell it. (Like some other OS) Then add them to the customer base. Kinda like what Kodak did years ago... practically give the camera away and then made their money on film and services.

 

The product has got to be available to make the sale. It seems to add some credibilty to a company if their products are readily available at their favorite retailer. I think the cost of pressing and distributing some CD's would also be much cheaper than an Apple Think Different ad campaign. They only lost 10 % of sales by discontinuing their retail side... what if they continued their distribution to stores... it probally would have at least been even. And the more product out there selling should also mean more club members and more service contracts to sell.

 

But then again, they still need to clean up some preconsieved ideas and work some bugs out of customer service and such while retaining their focus on the OEM market. Just hope they don't forget about those average Joes.

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