Guest siko9 Posted May 30, 2003 Report Share Posted May 30, 2003 Hi, - First, I apologize if I get harsh, but at this moment I feel terribly frustrated. - Second, I'm using Mdk 8.1 (with Gnome 1.4) because the versions above that won't properly run with XFree3.3.6, wich in turn is the one I need for performance reasons in a small system I want to use for basic surfing and mailing I'm trying to install Evolution 1.x - Even when I downloaded a full 80 MB directory from a ximian miror, targeted to my distro and version, I keep getting missing dependencies errors and/or conflicting version errors (between .mdk and .ximian rpms) - I added/updated "update sources", I tried gnome's rpm utility but it's always bitching about something and giving useless errors like "bad, unreadable or not found packages" - Mandrake update does not show Evolution as an available package - I tried updating the rpm management tools but no luck either (surprise!) - I started to install using urpmi on the console (I have no problem with that) trying to figure any rpm installation order from the error messages - After finally installing the packages it asked, Evolution still won't run but gives an error instead (wich one, doesn't matter right now). - A web search suggests there might be a ton of causes for it, starting for a lack of mozilla 1.0+ which could (is?) a dependency (thou there is no mention of it in the 80MB download) - I finally installed RedCarpet to see what happens, but I RELLY dislike this kind of upgrade/installation methods. I like to have more control and, specially, I like to be able to repeat my installations without the need of a broadband internet connection. (btw, it is downloading everything again). Hence my questions: * Was I right suspecting part of the problem could be in the packages installation order. * If so. Why is it that there is *NEVER* a freaking TXT file giving a bit of information as to what are the appropiate steps to install the prog? * Why is it that they (not specifically Ximian, but most program distributors) offer a *full package* but there is always something missing? PS: Don't take any of my complains as Mdk specific, I know package managment is generally troublesome. I ask here because it is one of the best and fastest forums i know. Thanks in advance, siko9. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tyme Posted May 30, 2003 Report Share Posted May 30, 2003 I'll make a stab at question #3 and leave the others for someone else, as I can't come up with a reasonable/good answer. This is because if they were to offer packages with every single thing that program needs to run (libraries, interface, etc.) the package would 1) be really huge and 2) cause redundancy on the system by installing things over and over that should only need to be installed once (think of it as a database-why make every department insert it's own record for an employee when you could have one main record with all the info, and only allow the department to see and update the information they need). It just makes more sense to say, ok, this is _our_ program, but to run it needs these other things that _we_ don't have anything to do with, so please go get them from a distributor or from the company/foundation/whatever that makes them. urpmi was an attempt to solve dependancy hell, but it's still young and as any new program it has it's growing pains-plus it relies on you putting in possible resources (aside from the CDs and update sources) as it could never know all the insanely huge amounts of places holding RPMs. Hope that answer is helpful to you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest siko9 Posted May 30, 2003 Report Share Posted May 30, 2003 Hi tyme :) , of course I realize it's mostly about reducing redundancy, but I really wonder if it would be that hard to have a *true* list of dependencies and a direct link to them. I mean, what is the point of having a lot of applications using the same APIS, toolkits or whatever, if none of them bundles them or gives you a rather direct links to get it? The reality shows that that 80 MB directory from Ximian is not for MDK81, it is for mdk81 + something-else that you may not have installled, so they should know and at least name it, for Christ's sake! To give another example, the same thing happens (to me) with Opera's packages for mdk 8, 9 and tgz. even when using with static versions. I am amazed that Linux is growing so much and that I still have enough patience to deal with it when some of the most polished apps have this "attitude". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scoopy Posted May 30, 2003 Report Share Posted May 30, 2003 I would like to question why you have to settle for 8.1 and 3.3.6? What is your graffics card? Something like my older S3 trio card never did want to work within the normal install. I needed to select the XFree 3.3.6 and then manually select the old s3v server to get it to work, minus any 3d accelleration it had. I am guessing also, that mandrake's newer tools, being based on newer libraries, will conflict with older 8.1 libraries. A lot was changed from 9.0 to 9.1. Another note, I think alot of the sources have been experience some downtime or something, cause I had trouble connecting for updates recently, but same URL's will work later. I would double check your hardware and see if maybe a clean 9.1 install would be a better way to update these apps. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VeeDubb Posted May 30, 2003 Report Share Posted May 30, 2003 out of curiosity, what would you need to boost your sys proformance enough to use a more current distro? I just rebuilt my comp and I have a number of part I would part with for litle or nothing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tyme Posted May 30, 2003 Report Share Posted May 30, 2003 The reality shows that that 80 MB directory from Ximian is not for MDK81, it is for mdk81 + something-else that you may not have installled, so they should know and at least name it, for Christ's sake! they probably do name the things it requires if you check their webpage for it. and if your use an RPM tool, when you select the package, there is usually a list of it's dependencies. them saying it's for mdk 8.1 simply means it was build on a system running 8.1 with the respective dependencies, also compiled for that system. it doesn't mean that installing 8.1 will solve all the dependencies. that's just how it works. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest siko9 Posted May 30, 2003 Report Share Posted May 30, 2003 them saying it's for mdk 8.1 simply means it was build on a system running 8.1 with the respective dependencies, also compiled for that system. it doesn't mean that installing 8.1 will solve all the dependencies. that's just how it works. hummm... I really didn't know that... As for the statement of required dependencies on their web pages, if it is there, I don't find it, and I think it should be more obvious. I also think it would be nice to have it in a simple TXT file on the ftp server. But maybe that's just me :) As for why mdk 81, Xfree 3x: I use a little computer as my "webstation" (surfing, mailing, overnight downloads, etc). It is a Pentium Classic 233, 64 ram, MatroxMystique 4MB :lol: . It is running Win 95 and it does it well enough, it rarely crashes or reboots, believe it or not. Trying one distro after another, I realized that the thing that makes the most difference in performance is the XFree server. Suse 7 LiveEval XFree3x runs faster here than a mini distro like VectorLinux with XFree4x I tried installing mdk 9.1, but when using the XFree 3.3.6 option, the X server crashes. So I am using the 8.1 version I downloaded when it was released. Why I want to move it to Linux, even when it might get slower or harder? Well, two reasons: A) I really like the open source concept, and B) I just can't afford this system being infected with a virus and sending infected mails to my clients. I do have a bigger system, but it is for serious work, so it doesn't even have Internet access, also for security reasons. -- VeeDubb thanks for your generous offer :D -- PS: I love the little time it takes to get answers in this forum Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tyme Posted May 30, 2003 Report Share Posted May 30, 2003 As for the statement of required dependencies on their web pages, if it is there, I don't find it, and I think it should be more obvious. I also think it would be nice to have it in a simple TXT file on the ftp server. But maybe that's just me :) i just looked at Ximians webpage. it's not very intuitive. i gave up on finding a list of system requirements. most other programs have it listed-atleast in my experience... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest siko9 Posted May 30, 2003 Report Share Posted May 30, 2003 I gave up too, and on Opera's web, there is some vague info about Qt versions, but it is outdated (opera 6) and it gives for granted that everyone knows what Qt is... But me complaining about this woun't change a thing. Anyway, do you have any thougt about the need of a specific order when installing rpms? And do you know if installations made with Ximian's red-carpet can be replayed off-line? thx Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Scrimpshire Posted May 30, 2003 Report Share Posted May 30, 2003 I gave up on Evolution in MDK 8.1 also due to the same problems. I could never solve them. Sorry. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest siko9 Posted May 30, 2003 Report Share Posted May 30, 2003 Finally Evolution was properly installed through Red-carpet, I found the files in RedCarpet's cache and they match in name and size to those that I had downloaded via ftp. There are no file that I had not downloaded, and there are a few not present: those that I had manually installed (console, urpmi). So I guess the trick is in the order, wich once again, would mean that a lot of grief would be avoided with a little guide. I was also thinking that a script file could be used, and I am quite sure that's how RedCarpet does its magic. But of course... there's no script file in the cache :P Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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