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Mandriva Linux 2008 Beta 1 available!

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Have you totally ignored my comment above, i'm looking at things in terms of business processes, not a community project, maybe my flaw is comparing Mandriva to "real" businesses, fair enough.
Putting out beta ISO's is part of a community process; getting the community involved is the whole point of doing it (as well as cooker). The business process you are looking for (apparently) would be their retail CD and DVD boxes, which this wasn't a part of, so you seem to be criticizing them for involving the community?

 

If you are attempting to argue that Mandriva should not involve the community in their beta process, and should close it up since they sell their end product, or something to that end, that is a whole different discussion and one we certainly shouldn't burden this thread with. If that's not what you're saying, then I seem to be lost as to what your argument is. Oh well, moving on...

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Putting out beta ISO's is part of a community process; getting the community involved is the whole point of doing it (as well as cooker). The business process you are looking for (apparently) would be their retail CD and DVD boxes, which this wasn't a part of, so you seem to be criticizing them for involving the community?

 

If you are attempting to argue that Mandriva should not involve the community in their beta process, and should close it up since they sell their end product, or something to that end, that is a whole different discussion and one we certainly shouldn't burden this thread with. If that's not what you're saying, then I seem to be lost as to what your argument is. Oh well, moving on...

 

Business processes go far beyond retail boxes. The point is that if they chose to involve the community, they need to manage it, otherwise community mistakes like this could potentially be embarrassing for the business. Mandriva's recent business process reengineering will bring up more instances like this as they increased the burden on current staff and introduced heavier involvement from the community, both very risky.

 

I will be watching with the :popcorn: I just stole from spinynorman :D

Edited by Reiver_Fluffi

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Mandriva's recent business process reengineering will bring up more instances like this as they increased the burden on current staff and introduced heavier involvement from the community, both very risky.

Damn, I was trying to stay out of this. But, now you are wrong! If you increase the community involvement, you 'will' ease the burden of the current (paid) staff, opensource == community.

 

Also as tyme has already stated “that is a whole different discussion and one we certainly shouldn't burden this thread with”.

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The point is that if they chose to involve the community, they need to manage it, otherwise community mistakes like this could potentially be embarrassing for the business.
Personally, I don't think having a bad beta ISO is an issue that will hurt their business, especially if the problem is recognized and resolved in a timely manner - and, so far, we have no evidence to the contrary - yet you continue to criticize - again, it seems like you've just been looking for an excuse to do so. As far as I can tell, if they ever make any mistakes at all, you'd get on them for it (justified or not) - you don't happen to be a manager at your day job, do you? ;) :lol2:

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Where are the gowatorial posts? I miss them in this "discussion" :cheesy:

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But, now you are wrong!

 

Feel free to disagree with me, but please do not tell me that my opinion is wrong, that is not for you to decide.

 

If you increase the community involvement, you 'will' ease the burden of the current (paid) staff, opensource == community.

 

Not at all, the reengineering exercise merged responsibilities and created greater burdens on individual staff, only so much of that can be delegated to the community for various reasons, plus with the additional burden of managing the increased community involvement. It's not a simple matter of equating the decrease in staff with the increase in community involvement as you bluntly put it.

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Personally, I don't think having a bad beta ISO is an issue that will hurt their business, especially if the problem is recognized and resolved in a timely manner - and, so far, we have no evidence to the contrary - yet you continue to criticize - again, it seems like you've just been looking for an excuse to do so.

 

Did you note the word "potentially"?

 

As far as I can tell, if they ever make any mistakes at all, you'd get on them for it (justified or not) - you don't happen to be a manager at your day job, do you?

 

If mistakes are made, questions have to be answered, in terms of management that action s well justified.

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Feel free to disagree with me, but please do not tell me that my opinion is wrong, that is not for you to decide.

Good point. Then it is still (in my opinion) very wrong!

Not at all, the reengineering exercise merged responsibilities and created greater burdens on individual staff, only so much of that can be delegated to the community for various reasons, plus with the additional burden of managing the increased community involvement.
We are still off topic, but... For the record, can you show me real evidence of this? Or is this your opinion again?

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If mistakes are made, questions have to be answered, in terms of management that action s well justified.
There's a large difference between asking questions and criticizing without evidence. You didn't ask what happened before you started throwing criticism around, and that's not well justified, in terms of management ;)

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There's a large difference between asking questions and criticizing without evidence. You didn't ask what happened before you started throwing criticism around, and that's not well justified, in terms of management ;)

 

It was an opinion based on what facts that have been presented and my understanding of the relevant business process. For any manager incomplete information is a fact of life, people make criticisms with incomplete information all the time, I wouldn't be the first, nor the last. There's my justification.

 

BTW, who was I meant to ask, Mandriva? Don't think so, they don't have a habit of communicating effectively (AdamW aside) with their stakeholders unless it is in their interest to do so (i.e. Euro's), otherwise they are not interested, that is well evident if you look at their forum (with the odd whine here for good measure).

 

Anyway good discussion :thumbs:

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Hi ,

A very interresting thread about mangement :blink: but has anyone tried the new iso and is it worth downloading it?

:cheesy:

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but has anyone tried the new iso and is it worth downloading it?

:cheesy:

 

I already reported that the netinstall ISO did not work for me due to broken DiskDrake, but apparently the other posts were more interesting and fun! :P

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Shortly after sprong was released I couldnt resist cooker and upgraded my spring to cooker and it had been a pretty smooth ride up untill a few weeks ago and at this stage many things are badly broken for me: my keyboard (many keys like the cursor dont function), nvidia proprietary driver, my scanner doesnt work anymore, my usb drive doenst work anymore, gtk kills flash and some other gtk apps and kde4 is still pretty useless, all these except kde4 were working up untill not very long ago. I do hope they will wait with final untill all the bugs are sorted out....

Edited by ffi

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ffi: that's not the general state of Cooker right now. I run Cooker permanently and my keyboard, NVIDIA driver, USB storage, Flash, and all GTK+ apps are working fine. (Don't have a scanner, haven't tried KDE4 yet). Something got broken in your install, you might want to reinstall it.

 

Any other opinions on Beta 1 much appreciated. Beta 2 is due next week.

 

Reiver, I think it's a bit odd to say 'aside from AdamW' when criticizing Mandriva's communication, since my job is to communicate. Mandriva pays me to communicate, I communicate, the system seems to work quite well. =) Aside from this, several developers will post in the forums when an issue comes up that I can't handle - there are several posts in the archive from Olivier Blin, for instance. Anne Nicolas, who is in overall charge of Mandriva development now, has posted several times in the last few days too.

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