Mandriva Linux 2007.1 review

[terry-s]

The review seems puzzling and to me rather mean. With 2007.1, I've just come to Mandriva from Gentoo. As far as I can see, the linux distro isn't yet born that doesn't have some glitches, and to me 2007.1 is looking good overall. (I had tried a previous Mandriva release, and the DVD stubbornly wouldn't boot on my machine, so it got abandoned. I have to say, the rc3 CD for 2007.1 also seemed to need to be coaxed not to hang on boot (it took a bit of keyboard-hammering and warm-rebooting, maybe an uninitialised variable floating about somewhere!) -- but when it got there it was good.) I've been finding the software update tools very smooth and easy to use, the font management in particular is thoughtful and ingenious! I've been a fan of portage, and urpmi (even though lacking some of the user information and a good 'pretend' dummy install feature -- I was amazed when it downloaded and dumped instead of just saying what it 'would do') seems as nearly as close as makes little difference. I've found the forums a helpful place (thanks AdamW) and recalcitrant sound and video cards have yielded. So I'm impressed amd thinking of converting more systems if I can, and joining the club.

Terry

[opvask]

Only problem for me is with Wine and 2007.1 but I can live without Wine I suppose

Weird. I have no problems with Wine and 2007.1 at all. If you'd like I can recommend VirtualBox. I use it for running poker software that will not work on Wine. You'll need a Windows CD though.

VirtualBox runs great when I use it with my old Win2k. Any other type of similar software (e.g Qemu) I've tried resulted in slow programs. I'm really impressed with VirtualBox, it runs perfect and I can simply minimize the window and be back in Mandriva. Also the mouse does not lock to the virtual system like in Qemu once the emulated system is running. It's a real easy install and real easy to use.

 

It can be installed from the MCC but I recommend the proprietary version from the website. Once installed. Click "Deviced" in the top and choose "install guest additions" to get proper screen resolution and mouse support etc. This would not work for me, with the version from the repos. That's why I recommend the website.

 

Here's a setup guide in case you need it. It's for Ubuntu but setting up VirtualBox is the same in MDV.

http://news.softpedia.com/news/Ubuntu-Wind...nds-48173.shtml

 

Regards

opvask

[scarecrow]

Virtual Box may be nice, but it isn't faster than kqemu, or qemu with the kvm kernel module- rather the opposite.

It may be hardware specific, but after installing the program drivers I had issues switching my screen from windowed to fullscreen mode (any keyboard shortcut I set failed to work one time out of two) and so returned to the (also free) VMWare server.

[jagwah]

[OT]

I use it for running poker software that will not work on Wine

This may interest you, Linux native,

 

http://www.pok3d.com/

[Guest blin]

I just wrote a nice long post outlining issues and x crashed. AARRGH.

 

A couple of points.. The review was on the DVD x86_64 ISO.

There is no wine in x86_64 repos. (yet?)

There is no 64bit flash, you have to install firefox32 and install flash into it. (Not a Mandriva issue but unfortunately it's used heavily on the web and a note to install a 32bit browser for flash would be a great simple fix for flash and many other browser plugin issues.)

You need to install 32 bit libraries from the i586 repositories for x86_64 to run vmware. (Again not a Mandriva issue per se, but why not fix URPM to handle these library issues. The fix is typically to install the 32bit lib from the matching distro versions i586 repo.)

 

All 64 distros are "flaky" mostly due to 32/64bit library issues. Mandriva is no exception.

X segfaults often while closing apps and or shutting down.

Key/id errors still exist. When using the MCC, media manager, adding repos through the gui, run URPMI --auto-select and get 40+ key/id errors.

Software dependency issues, packages available in MCC, software manager won't install because of missing libraries, they shouldn't be shown available to install.

 

Many other minor issues and pontifications but I'm feeling deja vu from the X crash. We'll see if it happens again. Coincidentally it crashed just as I hit the reply button to this post using Firefox 2.0.0.3 x86_64 installed as lastest from main/contrib, maybe it didn't like what I said about it.

 

Mandriva 32 is currently the best of the 32bit linux distros. (With others in close second or even tie, each for different reasons)

Mandriva 64bit the vote is still out, fails out of the box as do all current 64bit linux distros, but with tweaking may redeem itself.

Except for the X segfaults, better than Fedora & Suse from first impression.

Edited May 7, 2007 by blin

[arctic]

I have no problems with Mandriva 2007.1 except one. Just like ilia_kr, my system freezes sometimes at logout. Haven't found out yet what causes this. The logfiles do not show any significant hints.

[adamw]

Signature issues for 2007.1 should be all resolved now, but if you added repositories while they were still problematic, you will need to remove and re-add your repositories (or urpmi.update -a --force-keys may solve it). Reason being that each repository has a key associated with it in the repository configuration file, the actual problem was that the wrong key was being associated with some repositories, so if you added your repos during the problem period they will have the wrong key and the issues won't go away until you reconfigure the repo so the correct key gets associated with it. Sorry for that.

 

We have a package called nspluginwrapper that should make Flash work on x86-64 native Firefox. It's supposed to get installed by default on x86-64 builds but I've heard sometimes it doesn't. If you're running x86-64, check nspluginwrapper is installed. If it's not, install it, and see if Flash works in x86-64 Firefox now.

 

Please report bugs on any package that won't install due to a dependency error. http://qa.mandriva.com/ . We do fix these bugs - check the Errata for 2007 and 2007.1 and you'll see many such problems listed under 'Resolved issues'.

[jboy]

A couple new reviews of 2007.1 and a couple links on virtualization:

 

Mandriva 2007 Spring Packs a Punch

 

The Perfect Desktop - Mandriva 2007 Spring Free

 

Mandriva Spring - A Beautiful Change of Season

 

A Guide to Virtualization on Mandriva 2007 Spring

 

How to install VMware Server on Mandriva 2007

[Guest blin]

Signature issues should be solved by the app if possible.

Any solution to a problem that is given multiple times without changing should be automated into the app.

Sig ID errors are common, every new version update has had them for years now.

As far as "the public" knows, all these errors have been procedural.

No exploits to mirrors and/or "update exploits" have been reported.

This fix given is always;

wait awhile

reload urpm database and retry

ignore it - bad idea

The first two should be automated, pausing to retry and reload of corrupted URPM db.

 

nspluginwrapper

Now my 64bit browser crashes when posting to mandriveusers.org. Posting from a browser inside of a debian virtual machine running on vmware in the same machine is quite stable.

Might not have anything to do with nspluginwrapper, might just be general 64bit instability.

The release notes for nspluginwrapper state you need to have i586 repos setup for x86_64. (dependencies)

The issue I brought up is 32/64bit libraries, apps and dependencies.

Most 64bit systems (probably all 64bit desktop systems) will need 32bit lib/apps. This needs to be addressed.

 

Bug reporting

I am all for bug reporting, but please be aware in this specific case what you're asking is equivalent to asking the public to identify bad links to your own site in your own web pages. At task that is trivial to automate and test. Much more efficient that wasting the users time and wasting programmers time trying to discern meaning from non-technical bug submitters. A dependency error means there is no automated testing or broken testing before submission to the repos and there is no error recovery code built into the urpm apps.

 

 

In short, URPM has some very serious design errors that have existed through major version upgrades.

We'd all be better off if these could be addressed before everyone decides to go with a micro payment Pay-Per-Use system like CNR.

 

 

Totally offtopic: CNR bashing and why everyone should hold Ubuntu accountable for the mess that may ensue.

 

Sadly (because of personal feelings toward Linspire and CNR), I may be giving Ubuntu 64 a test. It saves time from installing and configuring a true Debian system. The first time I find trouble locating/installing an app/codec because of mandatory CNR I will ban Ubuntu from all systems/locations I administer forever, period.

The main positive CNR argument is you'll be able to buy proprietary codecs.

What we want is for people to stop using proprietary codecs, but conversion against marketing engines is a slow process.

With CNR;

There will be a disinsentive to use free codecs.

There will be a huge disinsentive for new programmers to produce free code right along side pay per use code.

There will an onslaught of crap "shareware" solely designed to reap pay per use. Screensavers, useless utilities, etc.

There will be an incentive to market and add glitz, a disinsentive to solve core problems. A flashier face will always sell better in the short term, regardless of functionality. Just watch late night US tv, food prep, excersise equipment and get rich schemes.

[theYinYeti]

No exploits to mirrors and/or "update exploits" have been reported

But it could happen:

http://devloop.lyua.org/blog/

 

wait awhile

reload urpm database and retry

ignore it - bad idea

Good advide; definitely don't ignore bad signatures, it is a bad idea.

 

With CNR;[...] There will an onslaught of crap "shareware"

So true!!

Not long ago at work, I setup my WinXP PC with usefull tools (text editor, CD/DVD burner...). Sure, there is a LOT of "free cost" software; people keep telling that in favour of windows. But 90% is crap, if not more! I wanted to download only Free Software (as in freedom): I barely managed to find a decent burner, and a decent text editor! And thanksfully some Linux software exist in win32 version, else I would have found NOTHING for some categories of software! (except crap shareware of course)

 

A flashier face will always sell better in the short term, regardless of functionality.

Sadly, yes...

Free software/Open source licenses are what gives quality to this software. I agree with you blin.

 

 

Now on topic (Mandriva 2007.1). I tried Metisse yesterday; it's awesome! :) :) I immediately found usefull features:

- I was sorting my photos; I had Nautilus and Eog open (one above the other) and placed a "to delete" emblem on photos/movies I decided were not worth keeping. So I rotated both windows as in the Metisse demo, which allowed me to "follow" files with my finger on the Nautilus window while browsing photos in Eog, in cases where many photos looked almost the same!

- I checked my bank accounts. I usually try and resize/move my Gnucash and Firefox windows so that I more or less can both read FF and write GC on the same screen. With Metisse, I selected the account entries area in the web page, created a "Facade" out of it, then selected the input area in Gnucash, and dropped it into the same "Facade", and voila! I had both areas in the same window, and interactive of course!

- While browsing my photos/movies, some movies were really small (digital camera low resolution); instead of hunting for the zoom feature of Xine, I just moved the mouse to the titlebar and rolled the wheel until the movie was the size I wanted :)

 

And everything without a crash. Very stable. Great release.

 

Yves.

[ianw1974]

Please report bugs on any package that won't install due to a dependency error. http://qa.mandriva.com/ . We do fix these bugs - check the Errata for 2007 and 2007.1 and you'll see many such problems listed under 'Resolved issues'.

 

I hope the bug reporting is better than when I logged two bugs six months ago or more for 2006. One of them had a response, the other went ignored. A had a reply couple of months back asking for input on the system, I replied, and nothing more. Maybe 2006 bug fixing has stopped now, since I've not seen any updates in a long time.

 

I'm hoping it's better for 2007, but I've not encountered any that I need to log faults for as of yet.

[adamw]

blin: it's not something that can easily be automated. we can't really have rpmdrake remove and regenerate all the media every time it's run, that would be crazy and extremely slow. but there's no way for it to know that anything is 'wrong' in this case, because it's done everything correctly: it found a pubkey file and associated it with the correct media. there's no way for it to know it happened to be the _wrong_ pubkey file.

 

the fix is simply for us to stop screwing up the keys, that's the bottom line.

 

as for dependency errors: actually, the problem usually happens when packages get old. by far the most common one is as follows:

 

a library is updated a major version

this makes a package that *used* to be fine need to be rebuilt

the package doesn't get rebuilt because the maintainer is idle, or whatever

the next release ships, the package is broken

 

there's an obvious example of this in 2007.1 - hydrogen, a drum machine app. It builds against libflac. during the 2007.1 cycle, libflac was updated a major version, from 7 to 8. hydrogen wasn't rebuilt, so it still depends on libflac7, which doesn't exist any more. hence it can't be installed.

 

there are, of course, automated checks which stop packages being uploaded with invalid dependencies. but these can't catch this kind of case, because when hydrogen was uploaded, its dependencies were fine.

 

(the hydrogen issue has been fixed by an update already, btw.)

[neddie]

a library is updated a major version

this makes a package that *used* to be fine need to be rebuilt

the package doesn't get rebuilt because the maintainer is idle, or whatever

the next release ships, the package is broken

Well I know nothing about how all your complex dependencies are worked out, but it seems to me that in this case, the updating of the library should raise red flags against all packages which depend on it - this should be easy to work out. The maintainers of those packages should get informed that they need to rebuild (this must happen already otherwise nothing would work!). Then, when a package can't or hasn't been rebuilt, then either both versions of the supporting library should be provided (if possible), or the packages which haven't (yet) been rebuilt should be removed from the distro. At some time later, when the package has been rebuilt, it can be made available on the mirrors after testing. But at least then people aren't trying to install packages which are known to be broken, and getting error messages which they may waste time trying to understand and fix. If it's broken, don't ship it.

 

This isn't a criticism of you, by the way, adamw!

[Guest blin]

adamw:

I accept your points on KeyID's. However, URPM at some point needs to work for newbies. All fixes should be handled "within" the app, even a link that launches a browser help web page with the steps to correct the error. Even if the fix is "wait awhile".

 

It could be trivial (conceptually) to implement a reload.

You don't delete what you have until something new is available even if what you have is broken.

You have more than one file and you don't know which needs replacing, one of the keys or one of the hdlists.

So you recognized it's broken (bad keyid - easy to test programatically)

Let the user know it's broken

Check checksum on URPM mirror to see if it's modified (different/updated/fixed on the URPM source)

When it's fixed, update, delete and reload or whatever needs to be done based on what was broken.

Very little extra traffic, can be queued easily for people who run 24/7. Poll for fix/update all night, once an hour one checksum check.

 

Three error cases:

1. KeyID FUP - one package update attempted and failed, you don't know if it's package or UPRM yet

try alternates, alternate good you're done and/or report bug to mirror admin (could be problematic, could be useful for stats only)

alternates fail = keyID FUP

multipackage errors are a keyID FUP

ping checksum and wait until fixed, update fixed file or reload URPM db

2. bad package/site/transfer - try on alternate site, alternate good you're done and/or report bug to mirror admin (could be problematic, could be useful for stats only)

alternates bad = bad package/key report bug to Mandriva

3. exploit, same as 2 above but will always fail and send bug report to Mandriva

 

 

Dependency errors:..... but these can't catch this kind of case? Huh?

Zen, kvm, vmware, etc.

Last check before you release 2007.1

install it

install and delete all packages one at a time with any needed dependencies, fully automated

install and delete all "sets", minimal, workstation, server, live cd

List packages alphabetically

Install and uninstall first package and dependencies

if success, mark all package and dependencies good, goto next untested package until all packages have been tested

if fails, mark package as bad, leave dependencies unmarked to test seperately, goto next untested package

All easily automated.

 

neddie has it right.

There should be Main, Contrib and Unmaintained repositories. If it doesn't pass automated tests it doesn't make it into Main or Contrib, if it's core then you delay the release until it's fixed.

 

 

OffTopic: I am trying a few installs of the final Gentoo 2007 dvd amd64, still install/compiling 3+ hours later even on the "use everything off the dvd" minimal install. All Gentoo install developers should do a Knoppix Hd install, you rarely need to install but Gentoo sure makes it memorable/painful.