Artificial Intelligence Posted February 8, 2007 Report Share Posted February 8, 2007 Press release http://www.linspire.com/lindows_news_press...ives.php?id=213 Kevin Carmony from Linspire says: http://www.linspire.com/linspire_letter_archives.php?id=40 LONDON & SAN DIEGO, February 8th, 2007 - Canonical Ltd, the lead sponsor of the popular Ubuntu operating system, and Linspire, Inc. the developer of the commercial desktop Linux operating system of the same name, today announced plans for a technology partnership that integrates core competencies from each company into the other's open source Linux offerings. Linspire will transition from Debian to Ubuntu as the base for their Linspire and Freespire desktop operating systems. (http://www.linspire.com/OSblocks). This will mean that Linspire users will benefit from Ubuntu's fast moving development cycles and focus on usability. The Freespire community will start seeing early releases of Freespire 2.0 based on Ubuntu in the first quarter of 2007, with the final release expected in the 2nd quarter of 2007, following the official release of Ubuntu 7.04 in April. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ffi Posted February 8, 2007 Report Share Posted February 8, 2007 MEPIS, Kanotix and now Linspire.... it is good to say that were committees have failed over and over again to create a standard linux base, the free market is triumphant :D Ubuntu will become the de facto linux standard base. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tyme Posted February 8, 2007 Report Share Posted February 8, 2007 Ubuntu will become the de facto linux standard base.I wouldn't be so sure about that ;) - All of those that switched were previously Debian-based, so this isn't really a huge change or a reason to think everyone else is going to follow suit. Not to mention that, even if they are Ubuntu-based, that doesn't make them compatible with each other. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Artificial Intelligence Posted February 8, 2007 Author Report Share Posted February 8, 2007 I'm more interested in the technology that Linspire going to share with Ubuntu as a part of the agreement. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tyme Posted February 8, 2007 Report Share Posted February 8, 2007 I'm more interested in the technology that Linspire going to share with Ubuntu as a part of the agreement.Aye, that is a more interesting aspect. I'm curious about CNR, I need to look more into how it works. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ffi Posted February 8, 2007 Report Share Posted February 8, 2007 Ubuntu will become the de facto linux standard base.I wouldn't be so sure about that ;) - All of those that switched were previously Debian-based, so this isn't really a huge change or a reason to think everyone else is going to follow suit. Not to mention that, even if they are Ubuntu-based, that doesn't make them compatible with each other. But of course Ubuntu is bigger than Debian or those other distros ever were together. Kanotix, MEPIS, Linspire and Ubuntu will all benefit of becoming compatible. Where once you needed to make a package for at least 5-6 different distros to reach 50-70% of linux users, you would now only need 1 and then other distros will have to follow. Shuttleworth is no fool either, he knows the lack of standards is hindering mass adoption of Linux and getting a standard is one of his goals. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tyme Posted February 8, 2007 Report Share Posted February 8, 2007 But of course Ubuntu is bigger than Debian or those other distros ever were together. Kanotix, MEPIS, Linspire and Ubuntu will all benefit of becoming compatible. Where once you needed to make a package for at least 5-6 different distros to reach 50-70% of linux users, you would now only need 1 and then other distros will have to follow.That's assuming they standardize. The CNR deal is between Ubuntu and Linspire; Kanotix and MEPIS are still doing their own thing - they aren't a part of the deal, and the deal may not effect them. If Kanotix and MEPIS aren't compatible with Ubuntu packages already, this won't change anything. I'm just being realistic, there is no reason to draw the conclusion that this will create more standardization outside of Ubuntu and Linspire/Freespire, because the deal is between the two of them - no other distributions, even if they are based on Ubuntu, are a part of the agreement. other distros will have to follow.Forcing standardization will not work. The distributions have to lead the charge, the software writers have enough on their plate then to try to steer standardization. I personally would put my weight behind LSB, not a distro-specific solution as we're seeing here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ffi Posted February 8, 2007 Report Share Posted February 8, 2007 (edited) no other distributions, even if they are based on Ubuntu, are a part of the agreement. I think MEPIS made a conscious decision to be compatible with the ubuntu repos ( and probable so did Kanotix) exactly because they feel Ubuntu is becoming the de facto standard. other distros will have to follow.Forcing standardization will not work. They are not being forced, it will just be better for their business to follow.... Edited February 8, 2007 by ffi Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darkelve Posted February 8, 2007 Report Share Posted February 8, 2007 Cute. Linspire was slow and bulky to begin with, hopefully this being-based-on-ubuntu thing will also mean it'll get better. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tyme Posted February 8, 2007 Report Share Posted February 8, 2007 other distros will have to follow.Forcing standardization will not work. They are not being forced, it will just be better for their business to follow.... This only works for distributions that are a business, and it's still in a sense "forcing" - instead of getting the major distributions together and coming up with something that should work well across all, you are saying "we're going to make this standard for our stuff, and if you don't follow you'll die". It is also MHO that Ubuntu is not the ideal candidate for basing standards off of. That's not to say Ubuntu is bad, just that it's not the best candidate. When attempting to create standards it's better to start off with a less customized base, and Ubuntu is highly customized. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Artificial Intelligence Posted February 9, 2007 Author Report Share Posted February 9, 2007 (edited) I found this old thread back from March 2006 when Kevin Carmony suggest the CNR to ubuntu in the forums: http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=138603 Might be worth reading (second post). Edited February 9, 2007 by Artificial Intelligence Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iphitus Posted February 9, 2007 Report Share Posted February 9, 2007 But of course Ubuntu is bigger than Debian or those other distros ever were together. Kanotix, MEPIS, Linspire and Ubuntu will all benefit of becoming compatible. Where once you needed to make a package for at least 5-6 different distros to reach 50-70% of linux users, you would now only need 1 and then other distros will have to follow. No. Debian is far bigger than Ubuntu - Still. Ubuntu just get's lots of press. Shuttleworth is no fool either, he knows the lack of standards is hindering mass adoption of Linux and getting a standard is one of his goals. The nature and development of linux prevent's it from ever being completely standardised. The main things people want standardised, are packages, and configuration. Most of the time the focus is on packages. LSB is an example of this. For packages: The kernel releases very frequently (too frequently imho), and everything else has extremely frequent releases. To enforce any form of standardisation, core components must be tied down to a set version range to maintain ABI compatibility. This ties down the whole system to that range, and makes any attempt at packaging standardisation pretty difficult. This can be partially worked around with compat versions, but only to a limited extent. Each distro wants to have the edge over the others by providing the newest and greatest features -- which depend on the newest versions of everything. And then there's the rolling distro's like Debian unstable, Arch, and Gentoo to a lesser extent. Any form of standardising these is just pointless as they constantly change. So packaging standardisation is a pretty difficult problem, not impossible.... but not very easy. Configuration standardisation is pretty difficult too, as in doing that, you're adjusting some pretty core things of a distro. Big changes, and in doing so, removing the advantages or methods of some distros. Standardisation is difficult. The ideal way for any standardisation to occur, is for an agreement between the major corporate distros. SuSE, Red Hat, Mandriva? et al. This would allow third parties to provide working standard proprietary software to a majority of the corporate market, where the money is to be made. However this is unlikely imho, as the aforementioned distros would be far more interested in making exclusive deals with such third party vendors -- Giving them a competitive advantage of the other corportate distros. James Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jlc Posted February 14, 2007 Report Share Posted February 14, 2007 Ubuntu will become the de facto linux standard base. Guess I wont be running the de facto.... B) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scarecrow Posted February 14, 2007 Report Share Posted February 14, 2007 Kanotix will (?) switch its base from Sid to Etch- not Ubuntu... although personally I have my doubts if we ever see another Kanotix release. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gowator Posted February 14, 2007 Report Share Posted February 14, 2007 I'm more interested in the technology that Linspire going to share with Ubuntu as a part of the agreement.Aye, that is a more interesting aspect. I'm curious about CNR, I need to look more into how it works. Two seperate things :D I'm actually interested to see what technology Linspire can actually bring? I can see a shared userbase but I'm not really certain about what CNR can actually bring? http://klik.atekon.de/ already works with kubuntu ... If that's your thing then it actually does a good job at user space installs.... CNR is more like synaptic with a credit card number ... Again, I guess if that's your thing.... except Ubutnu was always about being competely Free as in beer? Both distro's main feature is "no root password" and both are Debian based but I don't see any other commonality other than they are n00b distro's? Kanotix will (?) switch its base from Sid to Etch- not Ubuntu... although personally I have my doubts if we ever see another Kanotix release. This is really not the place for me to repeat from memory IRC conversations but if kano ever decides??? Meanwhile the developers have already left... It is also MHO that Ubuntu is not the ideal candidate for basing standards off of. That's not to say Ubuntu is bad, just that it's not the best candidate. When attempting to create standards it's better to start off with a less customized base, and Ubuntu is highly customized. I agree and so do the sidux developers. The reason most of them left was not because kano announced they would be moving to Ubuntu base but because he considered moving to a Ubuntu base. (and to no small extent not making up his mind as well) Several long conversations made it clear that many of the developers and advanced users would NEVER use Ubuntu again and that backwards engineering the customisations made in Ubuntu was pointless... when you can start from a clean Debian base. Kano's motivation was largely financial in that kantotix doesn't provide his food.... but sucks heavily into his time to do things that do provide him food ont he table. The idea to switch to an Ubuntu base was to shortcut this ... the objections were mainly that it was pointless because if you want a Ubuntu based distro and don't mind the root password thing then Ubuntu is perfectly good already... and that reverse engineering out the root password stuff is more work than taking SID and doing a few bugfixes.... No. Debian is far bigger than Ubuntu - Still. Ubuntu just get's lots of press. LOL.... Typical Ubuntuers arguament .... Ubunti is great Debianers response ... OK. Ubuntuers reply... except its better than Debian Debianers response ... OK. Ubuntuers reply " You don't need a root password" Debianers response ... OK... but I like my root password Ubuntuers reply " but more people use Ubuntu" Debianers response ... OK Ubuntuers reply "Ubuntu has everything Debian has but its better" Debianers response ... OK, I thought it didn't have a root password Ubuntuers reply "it doesn't need one, its better" Debianers response ... OK Ubuntuers reply "You should use Ubuntu, everyone is using it" Debianers response "I'm not and never will - will you let go of my arm now... I have a meeting to go to" Ubuntuers reply "what about" Debianers reply "about achitectures you probably never heard of and will never be supported by Ubuntu" Erm, anyway... does Ubuntu have more x86 users? Most Debian users really don't know or care... So packaging standardisation is a pretty difficult problem, not impossible.... Now where's that interview from Dexter .... the one where RPM's are better than Deb's ... Either way package management is critical... package management defines distributions.... Gentoo, Arch, Debian and even Mandriva are all distro's to a large extent defined by their package management... CNR... is NEVER going to be seen in any of those except perhaps Mandriva, the idea of a commerical repository built into the distro is anathema to Gentoo, Arch or Debian. Anyway RPM s fine for non server stuff... but anyone thinks apt4rpm replaces deb's hasn't installed server stuff with apt... because its not apt that makes the difference but dpkg in the backgound. That said its a question of taste and custom anyway ... Debian preconfigures servers whilst Mandriva installs them then provides tools to set it up.... I think MEPIS made a conscious decision to be compatible with the ubuntu repos ( and probable so did Kanotix) exactly because they feel Ubuntu is becoming the de facto standard.I already talked about kanotix.... MEPIS I don't really know but I guess the arguaments are the same.... Debian SID had a BIG year..... XFREE_>XORG and Dbus and HAL... and now Beryl et al... There were times in the last year where I literally thought (I'm not saying this as a wind up I mean it) that Debian unstable was getting as unstable as Mandriva official.... and I mean official not cooker. This might sound like a cheap shot .... OK perhaps it is a cheap shot but its true.... Debian stability is judged from Debian Stable as a base. Debian stable is possibly one of the words biggest understatements.... next to things like the mariannas trench... Its stead and boring but stability is not like anything Mandriva have ever come close to.... indeed it is better compared IMHO from a stability perspective to Solaris or *BSD.... Its a very tough milestone.... MEPIS and Kanotix both prided themselves on giving the stability approaching stable but with more up to date packages... Because of quantum shifts in Debian over the last year which don't end with the stuff above but include a new installer, GUI installed by default etc. This made it harder for kanotix and I guess MEPIS to provide stability and leading edge. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.