Darkelve Posted January 9, 2007 Report Share Posted January 9, 2007 I wanted to ask if there is any interest in a magazine by Linux users, for Linux newbies (people new to Linux). Since Tuxmagazine will not be free anymore, I think that created a void that should best be filled as soon as possible. Also, Tuxmagazine was good, but could use improvement as well. For example TuxMagazine didn't have any Gnome coverage at all. And even though I'm a KDE user, I think that's a shame. But before starting on anything, I would like to poll the members of some forums: - are you interested in such a magazine - would you willing to contribute and if so, how? (and how regularly) Some goals for the magazine (I'm just brainstorming): - frequent: at least bi-monthly - unbiased: Gnome & KDE, vi & emacs :P - sustainable: should be relatively easy to transfer tasks to other persons if this is really necessary - focus on the end user: the total newbie and the more experience "Linux n00b" - a number of recurring popular features (e.g. distro reviews) - freely downloadable - collaboration between different forums/distro users Your thoughts and opinions are very welcome! Darkelve Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dexter11 Posted January 9, 2007 Report Share Posted January 9, 2007 (edited) I always liked the idea of these magazines and I used to download a lot. But after a time I always noticed that I barely read them. As I barely read any book or magazine or longer text on the monitor of my computer. Then I saw some video tutorials somewhere and I know that flash and video tutorials are the future in learning. People barely read in these days. They don't have time. I encourage everyone to do flash or video tutors instead of magazines. there's a reason ubuntuclips exist. Take a look at http://www.virtualsky.net/5minutes for some Mandriva turials. You can see they are much more efficient than a magazine article. Edited January 9, 2007 by dexter11 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tyme Posted January 9, 2007 Report Share Posted January 9, 2007 I can host the project for free, I'd even cover the cost of the domain. I may have an interest in writing for it sometime in the future, but at current I have too many projects on my list :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pmpatrick Posted January 9, 2007 Report Share Posted January 9, 2007 I think Tux Magazine has shut down for economic reasons: http://www.desktoplinux.com/news/NS5510030186.html So, if there is demand for this kind of magazine you won't be competing with Tux Magazine. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darkelve Posted January 10, 2007 Author Report Share Posted January 10, 2007 No, not competing. More like, taking their place. Fill the void, like I said. I think Tux Magazine has shut down for economic reasons: http://www.desktoplinux.com/news/NS5510030186.html So, if there is demand for this kind of magazine you won't be competing with Tux Magazine. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ianw1974 Posted January 10, 2007 Report Share Posted January 10, 2007 They are thinking of Plan B though, whatever that is so not sure if Tux is completely over yet, or whether they are thinking of another way to bring it to the masses. I'm in favour of a community effort though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gowator Posted January 10, 2007 Report Share Posted January 10, 2007 (edited) My random thoughts on this A community effort is always better than a closed one IMHO ... but Dexter has a good point ... How many of us actually read them? I'm guilty of downloading stuff with tutorials and the like and not ever reading them ... I even have a directory full of them.. from Groking the Gimp through various mags... Also by N00bs for Noobs is not so easy ?? Yeah sure a n00b can write experiences but worthwhile tutorials are a different matter... We come back to GUI/CLI etc as well should n00bs get GUI tutorials or CLI ?? This is of course rhetoric .. GUI comes back to distro dependance ... (more so than CLI anyway) whereas CLI has that intimidation factor... Pitching all these together what might be useful is something like a topic based system ? At the same time doing it in html might be a good idea... so that things can be linked to wikipedia etc. One example might be networking ... Things can be put together with a set of criteria and metrics ... Experience level, GUI or CLI, distro specific or not ... and combined with foundation courses ? (networking 101) where stuff is copylefted where possible ... perhaps reworked etc. and the metrics can be viewed by a filter so that you select level, distro or not .. This would necessititate pre-planning... some sort of broad chapter specification ... Networking Networking 101: Metrics: Level n00b, distro ALL, GUI/CLI N/A, Description: A basic primer in networking Pre-requisits: none Networking 201: Metrics: Level n00b+, distro ALL, GUI/CLI N/A, Description: A more detailed primer in networking, begins discussion on protocols, technology, Pre-requisits: Networking 101 Network protcols TCP/IP Primer TCP/IP Detail Network Hardware Historical, outdated hardware Ethernet/Fast ethernet (10baseT, 100baseT) Wifi definitions Wifi 802.11 a,b,g,mimo Wifi and Linux ndiswrapper, madwifi Routing and filtering - basic primer Routes, defaults and gateways IP addresses and DHCP Firewalls, NAT etc. Yes this sounds like a book .... Im typing as I think but then we can make this a magazine by the way its managed/distrituted..The idea is someone writes the basic article stub ... or just gathers the information and then others contribute until its a finished article ... Another example can be Linux and graphics basic primer, would be vector/raster ... discussion of formats etc. More detailed tutorials on Gimp etc. More specific... GiMP and digital photography... People would contribute their own pieces... for instance "GiMP and digital photography..." could initially just be a stub linking to different places and then fleshed out... EDITS: Nearly all of this work is already done HERE.... I just wrote the order for n00bs to install software (again).... All it needs is organising... illustrating, formatting etc. We have answered the same questions 1000 times.... so why not just compile them? The different categories which have evolved here are a good foundation ... and the most recurring questions a good start! For instance a recent one is audio CD's... what do they contain? If we had a system where we nominate answers as stubs for articles we could automate a large part of this... Edited January 10, 2007 by Gowator Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
michaelcole Posted January 10, 2007 Report Share Posted January 10, 2007 (edited) I would join in submitting articles / how to s for the mag / site. I read that mag the one i really love is LXF, Linux format, actually a good read each month with a DVD on the cover. I would require a proof reader / editor as sometimes my writing sucks.. The thing on that mag that i dislike was the jap styled article and no real hands on get dirty things for the users. Even the end users need easy ways to do things like a diff on files or use regexp to speed up their work.. On demand there is you just need to get a good way of distributing world wide, quickly and advertisers. The money comes from the adverts, not from the front cover price. Edited January 10, 2007 by michaelcole Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
emmanuel_uk Posted January 10, 2007 Report Share Posted January 10, 2007 and I know that flash and video tutorials are the future in learning. How many of us actually read them? I'm guilty of downloading stuff with tutorials and the like and not ever reading them ... I even have a directory full of them Can I disagree? Yes video is great for some newbies, and some styles of learning. BUT, if you have no/little time to read mags/tuto you will have even less time to watch a video (that might be rather long before going to the point) Reading, fast reading ("eye scanning") cannot be replaced Reading for some / many is a good way to memorise the info. Wiki that can be pdf, tutorials, etc are good for people who do not have broadband You need both solutions, addressing what content goes were. One of tux strength was the horizontal layout, made easier reading. Pitching all these together what might be useful is something like a topic based system ? At the same time doing it in html might be a good idea... so that things can be linked to wikipedia etc. I like that I like the idea of structuring rather than reinventing the wheel, I like modularity addressing different level of knowledge Was under the impression Tux was a "proof of concept" to test market and also a way to have free publicity initially to help its launch (fine by me, it benefited the whole community) Fill the void, What for? What purpose? I like Gowator's approach, but this more like a book distributed in episodes, less of "a glossy mag", Tux was full of pictures, adverse to CLI, was more about promoting linux to newbies than really teaching a lot. It was about awareness, what software are out there Plus it had a lot about publishing letters from readers Really, What for? What purpose? which audience? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gowator Posted January 10, 2007 Report Share Posted January 10, 2007 and I know that flash and video tutorials are the future in learning. How many of us actually read them? I'm guilty of downloading stuff with tutorials and the like and not ever reading them ... I even have a directory full of them Can I disagree? Yes video is great for some newbies, and some styles of learning. BUT, if you have no/little time to read mags/tuto you will have even less time to watch a video (that might be rather long before going to the point) Reading, fast reading ("eye scanning") cannot be replaced Reading for some / many is a good way to memorise the info. Wiki that can be pdf, tutorials, etc are good for people who do not have broadband You need both solutions, addressing what content goes were. One of tux strength was the horizontal layout, made easier reading. Yep we had flash tutorials at work for a SAP system.. it sucked... You had to watch the whole movie to fill out a timesheet and 99% of people didn't use 99% of the system... i.e. only 1% of people had direct purchasing power (about 50% of the tutorial) only 10% had direct reports (people woirking for them directly) Yes it can be good BUT the time/effort involved is huge compared to text articles.... Pitching all these together what might be useful is something like a topic based system ? At the same time doing it in html might be a good idea... so that things can be linked to wikipedia etc. I like that I like the idea of structuring rather than reinventing the wheel, I like modularity addressing different level of knowledge Was under the impression Tux was a "proof of concept" to test market and also a way to have free publicity initially to help its launch (fine by me, it benefited the whole community) Fill the void, What for? What purpose? I like Gowator's approach, but this more like a book distributed in episodes, less of "a glossy mag", Tux was full of pictures, adverse to CLI, was more about promoting linux to newbies than really teaching a lot. It was about awareness, what software are out there Plus it had a lot about publishing letters from readers Really, What for? What purpose? which audience? Yep the last part is the crux.... who writes and for whom .... "In the kingdom of the blind the one eyed men are kings" (sounds better in French) comes to mind. In English we say "the blind leading the blind" but its more the partially sighted leading the blind.... but this more like a book distributed in episodes, less of "a glossy mag", Yep, I was thinking as I typed ... but a lot about publishing letters from readerscan easily be done... and I think the way to make it a mag not a book is in the "management" .... and using articles as a base... but using chapters to structure them... As with most projects the intial step is the hardest... Once we have a linux and photography section stub we can have a user (or vendor) submitted article ... http://www.bibblelabs.com/news.html Bibble Labs Releases Version 4.9 Upgrade, Including Clone & Healing Tool, Sensor Correction and 5-Star Ratings Photokina 2006, Cologne, Germany (Sept 22, 2006) - Bibble Labs, Inc announces the immediate availability of version 4.9 of Bibble Pro and Bibble Lite. This upgrade to the Bibble 4 product line includes the frequently requested Clone / Spot Healing tool, sensor defect correction, image rating and support for the latest cameras. Provided as a free upgrade download for all current Bibble 4 customers, version 4.9 represents the ultimate version of Bibble 4. http://lightcrafts.com/products/lightzone/ http://lightcrafts.com/products/lightzone/Discover.php LightZone 2.0 Following on the rapid success of Light Crafts award-winning Zone System-based LightZone software, Light Crafts is proud to offer film and digital photographers the next generation of powerful, yet easy to use photographic digital image editing tools with the release of LightZone 2.0. New features in LightZone 2.0 include: Raw studio News2006-09-27 Version 0.4 introduced a nasty bug in the non-MMX-loader code, version 0.4.1 is released to address this. Download: rawstudio-0.4.1.tar.gz 2006-09-26 Version 0.4 finally released. Rawstudio has become a full-fledged color managed raw converter. Unfortunately this impacts performance some, but hopefully this will be better in the future. We got some more sane defaults when loading Canon and Nikon photos. All issues on 64 bit platforms finally fixed. And last we now got a new beautiful icon. Enjoy. Download: rawstudio-0.4.tar.gz http://picasa.google.com/linux/ etc. etc., This could very quickly be an article.... Our resident journalist and a couple of antipodean mermbers I know are interested.... Commercial companies are free to write their own adverts ... (no charge but then we can know the ads if we like etc.) Hence we have a feature article and frequent news articles... and the news articles would then be "archived" into the feature article... with a bit of thought we could have subscriptions (free obviously) where we see the latest news from categories ... i.e. If you are into digital photography you can subscribe and see all articles... or articles in the last x weeks... reviews etc. etc. with RSS feeds etc. We could also then have features when major releases come out... Articles on photoshop under wine .. etc. etc. as tutorials. and how this all goes together (picassa will install wine... might it wreck your photoshop install for instance) On a seperate note, Im plannng a new website.... Iphitus gave me a great tour of Melbourne.... (thanks Iph) so I had an idea for a website... https://mandrivausers.org/index.php?showtopic=38472 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dexter11 Posted January 10, 2007 Report Share Posted January 10, 2007 and I know that flash and video tutorials are the future in learning. How many of us actually read them? I'm guilty of downloading stuff with tutorials and the like and not ever reading them ... I even have a directory full of them Can I disagree? Yes video is great for some newbies, and some styles of learning. BUT, if you have no/little time to read mags/tuto you will have even less time to watch a video (that might be rather long before going to the point) Reading, fast reading ("eye scanning") cannot be replaced Well in the opening post Darkelve wrote it was for newbies. Did it change now? I meant short problem oriented videos\flash tutors. They can be organized in categories too. Besides if you'd actually looked at the Mandriva tutors in the link I gave, you'd know how fast you could watch it. You can click through the whole tutorial in no time. If you have little time and have to solve a specific problem then you should learn how to use a search engine. In the first post it was about to create a magazine now it looks to me you want a help desk. So it's really time to dicide what do you want to create. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gowator Posted January 10, 2007 Report Share Posted January 10, 2007 and I know that flash and video tutorials are the future in learning. How many of us actually read them? I'm guilty of downloading stuff with tutorials and the like and not ever reading them ... I even have a directory full of them Can I disagree? Yes video is great for some newbies, and some styles of learning. BUT, if you have no/little time to read mags/tuto you will have even less time to watch a video (that might be rather long before going to the point) Reading, fast reading ("eye scanning") cannot be replaced Well in the opening post Darkelve wrote it was for newbies. Did it change now? I meant short problem oriented videos\flash tutors. They can be organized in categories too. Besides if you'd actually looked at the Mandriva tutors in the link I gave, you'd know how fast you could watch it. You can click through the whole tutorial in no time. I think the problem is as emmanuel_uk says... quick scanning... I don't see how the scanning articles can be replaced by movies... and although they can be good the time effort involved in making a good flash movie on a specific subject is enormous compared to a text/picture article... Also as the interfaces change then the movie changes in entirity... going back the the network stuff... when the wizard changes in Mandriva then the movie will need redoing.. and the info is only useful for that version of mandriva .... Its a nice idea but I don't see how it can form a basis of the magazine... without being a whole commercial endeavor... ??? It can be done by linking thousands of flash movies ... but the work is enormous compared to text? For instance if you press X then movie jumps to X but if you choose Y it goes to Y ... yes cool but a heck of a lot of work ... IMHO.... The fileystem tutorial you did is nice but it needs more reference material IMHO.... its a great compenent of something for the linux filesystem but again IMHO only a small part... so it is fine as it is but it needs more meat around it and a lot of this can perhaps be provided best as text/graphics articles ??? and linked (for instance the CLI view or Gnome view etc. ) and list of useful CLI commands for file system stuff...and other progs than konqueror... (krusador for instance) ... so the mopvie could lead into this but then have links for more advanced stuff but I can't see every aspect being covered...?? If you have little time and have to solve a specific problem then you should learn how to use a search engine.Well ytou can also ask here.... In the first post it was about to create a magazine now it looks to me you want a help desk. So it's really time to dicide what do you want to create. I don't really see it as a help desk but equally video tutorials are not a magazine either??? As I said, its all in the "management and structure" .... if the video's are within a structure then it can be made magazine like and they simply form a media within the magazine... but the basic indexing and stuff should be more text based IMHO... or its just a flash tutorial.... I can see a way they are all included.... like an a la carte smorgasboard where video, text etc. are all available... Like many magazines a series can span issues BUT unlike conventional ones it can be linked and give value added in the archiving state... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
emmanuel_uk Posted January 10, 2007 Report Share Posted January 10, 2007 >>Well in the opening post Darkelve wrote it was for newbies. Did it change now? No, you have "newbie newbie", and just newbie. IMHO one should define the audience, hence the "type of newbie" and Darkelve wrote >>the total newbie and the more experience "Linux n00b" which is very relevant, spot on. At least 2 groups audience You have self starters, self learners, and people who need more directions/instruction in their learning, you have newbie w/w computing experience One needs to decide at what level to pitch the mag. Tux had made a choice. Fine by me if whoever leads say "pitched at same level as Tux, avoiding any CLI" or whatever. Personally I would keep a bit of CLI >>People barely read in these days. I am against encouraging this trend, Call me old fashioned. Better make a more readable, encouraging reading, with link to videos >>it was about to create a magazine Did it change? Why are we going to have videos in a mag? Multimedia is everywhere ;-) The mag could have links to video indeed >>You can click through the whole tutorial in no time This technology excludes people on slow connection. A video is less searchable than text. Yet it seems to facinate people. How do you cut and paste CLI from video? (I know video will be mostly GUI ;-) A video becomes very geared toward a given distro, even a given desktop manager. Gowator made a similar point So what general use does it have? But yes great for visually showing off, and sometimes better than long explanations. Needed in moderation, and short, this is my point About http://www.virtualsky.net/5minutes I know how taken you are by Ubuntuclips As Gowator said, this clips take huge amount of work. Do not get me wrong they are excellent They are needed for advocacy, distance learning, but cannot replace text instructions, they come in addition. Clips are needed for publicity, to get punters in Clips are needed for people who do not have the vocabulary yet associated with the GUI Clips are needed for complex sequence of clicks or visually difficult things to find or explain in words >>If you have little time and have to solve a specific problem then you should learn how to use a search >>engine Not directed at me, I presume. You mean "one should learn how to [...] Well this was not covered in Tux, and for any newbie, this topic would be useful, and one of the 1st one >>to me you want a help desk Not sure I understand. I want nothing. I am here to help and make suggestions. I can google, I participate in forums. I cannot grasp a mag being a help desk. A teaching desk maybe, yes. >> it's really time to dicide what do you want to create. The whole point of my post. Filling a void and cloning what existed is maybe the solution. Maybe not. Not my decision anyway. Somebody going to clone a dead Dodo? Nop, he/she/they are going to improve on it! Look at Gowator's post: His view of what a mag would contain is actually advanced to some extent, and not at all at the same time (R101 concept), while photoshop in wine? Very user/usability based and adressing fact that some people do not have time to learn gimp. And + one of the old issue of "stoping" people to convert to linux (a barrier to change) Also like me, maybe a desire not to reinvent the wheel or to link to material already existing. Tackling FAQs as well. To Gowator: FAQS one by one, or book extract into mag, provided you have recurring topic is still a mag probably. So in fact I meant I am supportive of the "a bit book oriented approach", reusing faqs, recurring questions. Yes to the structure. Excellent idea to link to past material and give added value to archive material To be clear, I think the mag is a great idea. Sadly, I have little time to contribute for now, and my first plan is to help with some wikis or on forums for now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dexter11 Posted January 10, 2007 Report Share Posted January 10, 2007 I think the problem is as emmanuel_uk says... quick scanning... I don't see how the scanning articles can be replaced by movies... and although they can be good the time effort involved in making a good flash movie on a specific subject is enormous compared to a text/picture article...Also as the interfaces change then the movie changes in entirity... going back the the network stuff... when the wizard changes in Mandriva then the movie will need redoing.. and the info is only useful for that version of mandriva .... If the interface changes then you have to change the text tutorials too. Besides if the GUI changes I don't have to make the whole tutorial again. It's only true for the videos on ubuntuclips. The flash tutorials on virtualsky are made with a program called wink which makes a flash output by default but it can make pdf and a couple of others too. Making a tutorial with wink is basically making screencaptures and then adding some explanations. If the interface changes somewhere and I still have the project file then I just have to change a few pictures and a couple of words that's all and I don't have to start from scratch again. Its a nice idea but I don't see how it can form a basis of the magazine... without being a whole commercial endeavor... ???It can be done by linking thousands of flash movies ... but the work is enormous compared to text? For instance if you press X then movie jumps to X but if you choose Y it goes to Y ... yes cool but a heck of a lot of work ... IMHO.... I made a howto myself a couple of years ago and it took a way more effort then to make this brief file system intro. It was more thorough but I'm too lazy to do it again.The fileystem tutorial you did is nice but it needs more reference material IMHO.... its a great compenent of something for the linux filesystem but again IMHO only a small part... so it is fine as it is but it needs more meat around it and a lot of this can perhaps be provided best as text/graphics articles ??? and linked (for instance the CLI view or Gnome view etc. ) and list of useful CLI commands for file system stuff...and other progs than konqueror... (krusador for instance) ... so the mopvie could lead into this but then have links for more advanced stuff but I can't see every aspect being covered...??Because I didn't want to cover all the aspects. My clue was mainly to make the newbie who see this tutorial to understand the different concept between the Linux file system and the Windows file system. And I know I left out a great the deal of stuff but IMHO what was left in is enough to get started for a newbie. If this magazine will really get going and you will contribute to it you have to make similar choices all the time regardless if you write articles or make videos. CLI commands for a newbie? I don't think so. All the other stuff like different file managers or DEs should be covered by other tutorials. >>People barely read in these days.I am against encouraging this trend, Call me old fashioned. Better make a more readable, encouraging reading, with link to videos I don't wanna take away your enthusiasm but do you know what's "encouraging reading" these days IMHO? Harry Potter. No, seriuosly. You can't compete with it. Or if you can you won't have any financial problems in your life anymore.There were and still are some hardcore users who think all computer owners should learn CLI and understand what the computer really does. Do users do that? You can't change the users. You have to conform to them and not the other way around. >>If you have little time and have to solve a specific problem then you should learn how to use a search >>engineNot directed at me, I presume. You mean "one should learn how to [...] Well yes, not a native English speaker here.>>You can click through the whole tutorial in no timeThis technology excludes people on slow connection. A video is less searchable than text. Yet it seems to facinate people. How do you cut and paste CLI from video? (I know video will be mostly GUI ;-) A video becomes very geared toward a given distro, even a given desktop manager. Gowator made a similar point So what general use does it have? But yes great for visually showing off, and sometimes better than long explanations. Text is more size efficient it's true but wink can generate other outputs too as I wrote.Since video facinate people more people would watch it than read an article. We could write the CLI commands under the video, but remember tis magazine is intended for noobs the less CLI you are using the better. Any tutorial can be geared toward a given distro, desktop manager etc it depends on who makes\writes it not on the output format. IMHO it's most of the times better than long explanations. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
emmanuel_uk Posted January 10, 2007 Report Share Posted January 10, 2007 intended for noobs the less CLI you are using the better I know it is nearly a mantra on this board. And I agree (total noob and CLI = too much frustration = barrier = wrong start) How about one or two clips per issue, a longish one (< 5min?) And also 1 or 2 super short (<1 or 2 min?) For ad-hoc purposes, geared at "total noob" Not used wink, is this faster than just making a ppt (impress) presentation, made of captured jpeg, as opposed to some kind of movie/film? I know not the same impact. Hey, am looking forward to the first clip explaining CLI Still, even with such a suggestion, one needs a content / angle / style for the rest of the mag Wink = flash ? flash and linux are not very good friends, are they? (for now) Just wondered is mpeg 2 , divx, etc not ok? Anyhow I have no idea if flash has real advantage. Off topic sorry. From what you are saying wink is good because you can keep the txt, and redo the capture. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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