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Is linux failing on the desktop?


Ixthusdan
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  1. 1. This article is accurate and the community needs a heads-up.

    • Yes. I agree 100%
      0
    • No, the author is stupid
      5
    • Some points are valid
      9
    • Who reads anything at ZDNet???
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Please read this article and post what you think here.

 

I agree that the whole geek approach is a short coming of Linux. The word geek was created for a reason, and the general population does not want to be geeks. Linux is still a geek os, despite the fact that installation does not require the difficulty the author claims for many distributions.

 

I am not sure that pc gaming is a driving point. The gaming world seems to have moved on to consoles. Gaming in windows requires a degree of knowledge, because even windows amchines don't "just work" as the author claims.

 

The software thing is just a real pet peave to me. THE SOFTWARE IS ALREADY THERE! Sorry to shout, but Linux is not like windows. You get the software that windows makes you have to run out and buy. The author does not understand how Linux works, which leads to my final observation.

 

Too many choices. What an absurd point. But to a windows maven, it makes sense. Moving from no choice to many choices is confusing. I think people eventually get used to freedom.

 

Oh, yeah. Hardware. The author's point is so uninformed and stupid that I can't believe he said it.

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overall Hardware Support in Linux is better than in Windows

 

Windows seems to have better Hardware Support, because every Hardware-Manufacturer writes a driver for it, this guy should try to get his box working in WinXP without these external drivers and then tell me about hardware support again.

 

maybe hardware-accelerated 3D is a problem with Linux (at least on the ati-side), it's really a shame for ati, that a Notebook with a tiny intel GMA-don't-know-which (it's a 852-Chipset) works flawless with Compiz in Mandriva One, while my ati x850xt on my gaming box which I migrated to Linux just sucks, but that's atis fault (or mine, since I was so silly to by one of their cards :P )

 

The point with gamers is they just use the OS which works best for their fav game, so if they play a game thats only supported under Windows, they use Windows

 

My Games and my Job are the only reasons for still using Windows

 

here comes the big problem: companies, most IT-Managers in most Companies (at least here in Europe) are cowards, they just don't have the guts to tell their bosses that it would be better to use linux

 

Linux may fail on the desktop but not for quality reasons, but for the stupidity of the users

Edited by lavaeolus
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I voted "No, the author is stupid" although that is not really my opinion. My opinion would be more like: He hasn't fully understood linux yet, how it works, how the community interacts and thus writes some rather unlucky comments. It takes some time to understand and accept the differences between Linux and Windows. He did not spend enough time with linux yet. ;)

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In overall, linux is quiet suited for desktop use, but not every distribution. There are indeed some really easy to install and maintain distros like Mandriva, Ubuntu, Fedora and Suse. However, there are few that are tough nuts.

 

Windows has only one flavor, you may like or not but it is common and relatively simple for average person's understanding, what contributes to its popularity in the masses. When i started with linux, i didn't know what to choose, so i thought to myself: "There are dozens of distros, what shall i choose? The hell, why bother at all, i don't need it." After a month or so, i decided do try Debian - big mistake. Debian was not intuitive, alien and weird creature. Even now, after using linux for about a year, i don't think i could configure it my way. Debian is great stable system for servers (just an example) but very not comfortable for a desktop use, in my opinion.

 

Linux offers a lot of free software and that is one of its main advantages. Yet not all software is stable enough and meets all the demands. Some proprietary software are coded more professionally, better tested and suited better for a specific job. You also may get support from its creator. People who want to make money are interested that their software would be the best, so they make big efforts to assure this. OS developers are free of this bond and work hard, but with different ideology in mind.

 

Correct me if i'm wrong, but in my opinion computer gaming is still (there is a decline however) one of the most profitable spheres of software business (see here). Linux indeed lacks support for games. You need third party software like Cedega to play some games if it is possible at all. Few have native support and those that have are underperformed in comparison to Windows clones.

 

My conclusion: linux can be used on a desktop, but still it has to mature and undergo some improvements in order to get to the masses.

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I still think that the emphasis of windows is the single most damaging problem in technology because it affects both hardware and software. Between that and the absolutely pathetic marketing practices of commercial Linux distributions, there is still a hard road ahead. Linux may be a different ideology, but business is still business, regardless of tech ideology.The Linux desktop is fine, as far as I am concerned.

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I voted "No, the author is stupid" although that is not really my opinion. My opinion would be more like: He hasn't fully understood linux yet, how it works, how the community interacts and thus writes some rather unlucky comments. It takes some time to understand and accept the differences between Linux and Windows. He did not spend enough time with linux yet. ;)

 

Took me about 2hrs with Mandrake 8.1 and this forum...either that makes me a geek :geek: or that enough $$$ can convince anyone M$ is the only game in town.... :cry:

 

Oh nuts, I just remembered I took Fortran in college (punch cards) and started on Apple DOS (Apple ][+) then MS DOS 3.x...I am a geek :cry: :cry: :cry::cry:

Edited by cjc
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I voted some points are valid. Hardware support can be flaky at times but it's getting better. Gaming definitely, although you can get it working in Linux, and sometimes not always.

 

Most of the systems I implement at work now are Linux-based. I very rarely use Windows unless I have to because I have no other choice, or the client wants it.

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Well, he has some valid points and a load of junk:

 

1) Gaming

 

If you're seriously in to gaming on a PC rather then console then you're probably better off with Windows and that is likely to remain the case for a long time. Cedega seems to work well for some people, but the people I know that are fanatical gamers would dismiss this as too much effort (read in to that what you will ;) ).

 

2) Software Support

 

Umm, this is where he misses the point, and where the average Joe he's talking about probably misses the point of Linux and software freedom too. Being pragmatic about it I can see why some people will want to buy photoshop, but how much non-gaming software that you see for sale in your local store is worth paying money for?

 

3) Stop assuming people are Linux experts

 

Face it, Linux is written by geeks and adding user-friendly features is pretty much bottom of their TODO lists. But, there are places for people to look for help - if they can't be bothered searching and reading (hardly need to be a Linux expert to do either of those - waddle over to google and type Mandriva help) then how on earth is anyone meant to help them.

 

4) Hardware support

 

Not the fault of Linux developers, perhaps instead of writing FUD he could try to lobby manufacturers to either produce binary blob drivers (will do at a push) or produce true FLOSS drivers. He probably would have more wieght with them than an army of Linux heads.

 

5) Too many flavours

 

Someone give this guy a copy of the Cathedral and the Bazaar, he just doesn't get it at the moment.

 

6) OS zealots

 

He has a point here, but without people preaching how good Linux and other OS's are how would the masses actually learn of their existance in this MS dominated world.

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In overall, linux is quiet suited for desktop use, but not every distribution. There are indeed some really easy to install and maintain distros like Mandriva, Ubuntu, Fedora and Suse. However, there are few that are tough nuts.

 

Windows has only one flavor, you may like or not but it is common and relatively simple for average person's understanding, what contributes to its popularity in the masses. When i started with linux, i didn't know what to choose, so i thought to myself: "There are dozens of distros, what shall i choose? The hell, why bother at all, i don't need it." After a month or so, i decided do try Debian - big mistake. Debian was not intuitive, alien and weird creature. Even now, after using linux for about a year, i don't think i could configure it my way. Debian is great stable system for servers (just an example) but very not comfortable for a desktop use, in my opinion.

Well perhaps ... however this does illustrate the big differences between distro's...

I think a primary difference is going back to the old UNIX concept of how you build a system. Some distro's like Gentoo still keep this as a very real thing... where build means compile from scratch...

Its a philosophy, not a product and installing Gentoo isn't really that hard... if you can read and follow detailed instructions.

 

Debian has a similar philosophy ... especially the netinstall which basically sets you up a very basic minimum of the kernel, apt and networking ...however that doesn't make it that difficult to configure either.. what you do need is a knowledge of what packages you need ... and to an extent answers to some questions it will ask you.. some of those questions can be intimidating and some of those names of packages hard to know you want to install however like Gentoo the crucial ingredient is actually not so much knowledge but a buy in into the philosophy and ability to read/learn...

 

In many ways you could compare it to learning a language... any one who was taught part of a second language at school (which I presume you speak at least 2) can have widely different experiences not because of their ability but because of their perceptions and prejudice.

 

Given your locale I could use an example of Ugaric languages... the emtology is to a large extent blurred but how many Isreali's speak semi-fluent arabic and yet its the closest 'largely spoken' language to Hebrew ...? and indeed varies within itself almost as widely as the differences. (better not dig deeper in that area here).. In the same way many Spanish people speak excellent English and yet no Italian or French or even Portuguese? (and you can swap all of those about pretty much) ... The differences are rather minor compared to English yet probably 90% of the time stick a Spaniard and Frenchman together and their common language is likely to be English which is much further removed from thier native tongues than each other... and if you want to find a Spaniard and Frenchman and Italian who can all converse natively in one language then the chances are it will be Arabic and not even real Arabic but the bastardised Beur of North Africa. The same can be said of Scandanvian countires whom steadfastly refuse to speak the very minor differences between them. Stick Linus and a Norwegian in a room and logically they should speak Swedish ... yet most Finnish people I know REFUSE to speak Swedish at all and much prefer English. Likewise most Norwegians, especially Eastern Bokmal speakers (since a country of 6 million has decided it needs two distinct languages??) can understand and speak Swedish if they wanted... by definition ALL FINNS who graduated from university (i.e. most Finns, I don't know a single one who didn't) speak fluent Swedish.. you can't graduate without it....its required. Granted the two languages are as completely different as Japanese and English yet every single Finn I know refuses point blank to Speak Swedish ... and if finnish has any relationship at all with anything else then Basque is about the closest after Hungarian... yet I have met quite a few Spanish Basques who refuse to speak Spanish but will happily speak French? They are even willing to be violent if you try Spanish they simply HATE the languge ....

True story: I was on a work meal in Spain with about 30-40 people and my boss at the time spoke fluent Spanish.. our other Argentinian colleague was for once happy to speak a little of his native tongue. The resto told us in no uncertain terms if he continued to Speak Spanish they would throw all of us out ... Holy-moly ... they really hate it that much? I guess so....?

A school in Belgium has recently banned French from the school...and I don't mean classroom..I mean school premises... if parents wish to converse with their kids and don't speak Dutch then they have to take a translator?? (or speak a third language.... English is OK...as is Arabic but utter a single Alors! in French when you stub your toe and your suspended?

 

The same goes for Linux distro's.... 90% of the time the common 'OS' between two linux users is Windows...The differences across the distro's are pretty minor and even to *BSD are much closer but try the same thing as the language and all of a sudden the C: nomenclature is has more common than the hdx linux nomenclature or the *bsd or Solaris ones which are far more closely related?

Like the Belgian school Debian lovers are more or less hated by many Gentooers who spend more time looking for the differences than the 99% of commonaility.

 

Linux offers a lot of free software and that is one of its main advantages. Yet not all software is stable enough and meets all the demands.
Other than OCR ??? neither is all Linux software FREE as in beer. Let me put it this way... is Oracle now unstable because they shifted development to Linux? Is Oracle less of a professional package for viewing the windows customers as "quirky and stubborn adherents of a fundamentally crap server OS?" I could give a long list from mysql to my photoprocessing software which states that the linux version is the most stable and the primary development platform and runs faster on Linux than Windows. (just like Oracle)
Some proprietary software are coded more professionally, better tested and suited better for a specific job. You also may get support from its creator.

 

Well I frequently correspond with linux developers, maintainers etc. but I have yet to meet anyone who got Bill on the phone.....;). or more seriously even the Office developers...

People who want to make money are interested that their software would be the best, so they make big efforts to assure this. OS developers are free of this bond and work hard, but with different ideology in mind.

Again I don't really agree.... at least not across the board... indeed many commercial software vendors have no interest in their software being "the best" ... indeed its largely irrelevant ... all they care about is its the most popular or more accurately generating the most revenue and the two are far from the same and history has proven the betamax concept over and over... mass adoption has nothing to do with quality and everything to do with market dominance.

 

In many cases market dominance has been based on bundling a piece of crappy software like IE ... and to a large extent MS Office. There was nothing wrong with word2.0 specifically, nor Excel 5.0 but feature wise Lotus and wordperfect had more features... the total market dominance we have today of MS Office is not because it was better but because it was pre-installed and like betamax the other superior products couldn't compete with "Just send me the Excel file" because MS spent more time making it incompatible than adding features. Just like the early betamax adopters found out they couldn't rent videos or lend them to friends the early WP/Lotus adopters found they couldn't share documents, at least not without loosing formats.

 

This wouldn't have been quite so sad if MS backward compatibility had been better... in many cases importing a version x,y,z powerpoint file into Lotus did a better job than importing a x+1,y,z file from different office versions... The reason its sad is people just accepted this.... and each person accepting it and upgrading a version of Word did so not for the features (as I already said Word 2 was perfectly good as a word processor) but the primary reason was ... being able to send and receive properietry format .doc's!

To this end they found they had to upgrade the PC.. and that meant upgrading the OS and the Office suite and for 80%? of office users gaining nothing new...

Indeed I would say that for 95% of things done in whatever version of word is being used today the same could have been achieved easier and faster in Word 2.0... really a business letter is still a business letter ...

 

So in a way we are back to language and dialects....Norwegian is not a language, much as Norwegians want it to be its merely two dialects of the Nordic family. Bokmal is closer to Swedish than Nynorsk the other language which is itself closer to Danish and both Danish and Swedish are far richer languages than either Norwegian dialect so many Norwegian authors have ... well written in English .... rather than borrow a few words from richer languages which are closer.

 

and the weird thing.... this mostly happened as a direct result of WP and/or lotus spending a lot of time on import filters and export filters for MS word... such that a WP user would "SaveAs Word" and the Lotus user would "Import word xx format"

 

The simple fact is market dominance and controlling the standards is what counts most in technology and quite often is the only deciding factor... slowly the WP and Lotus users just adopted the common standard.

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