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hello, say hi to the noobie! question: could someone be so kind as to explain or provide a good link to docs regarding the relatationship between: X, window managers and the desktop enviorenment???

thanks,

james

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Hello noooooobie.

 

Your best bet for that kind of information is The Linux Documentation Project.

 

http://www.tldp.org/

 

Can you be a little bit more specific as to what kind of information you are looking for?

 

In a nutshell though, X is what runs everything. Then below that you have the desktop environment -- kde, gnome, icewm, etc. I am not sure where the window manager fits in, but I believe that it is below the desktop environment.

 

A little brief and generic though.

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What I wrote on the old board before the old board we know (that's the dawn of time :) ):

 

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If you want to have windows, the only mandatory thing is XFree (the free software version of X).

You could start X with only an Xterm (a window in which to issue commands). And then you could start one or many applications from this xterm. That would be the most minimalist way, BUT you'd then have windows without borders, without title bar, without top buttons (min, max, close...), and so without a way to go from a window to another (last opened is on top); that's because the windows are not managed.

 

Is that what you want? probably not.

 

So you'll need at least a window manager. Here are a few you can choose from:

  • - Fluxbox,

- Window Maker,

- XFCE,

- Sawfish,

- IceWM,

- KWM,

- Enlightment,

- Matchbox,

- ...

 

With a window manager (which you can choose in the window where you log in), the windows will gain all those things which where missing: title bar, window operations, borders for resizing... Besides, all window managers offer some very basic features, which are normally reserved to a desktop environment, such as a taskbar, a menu, window icons... In fact, some window managers are so much featurefull that you don't need a desktop environment at all (Enlightment is a good example, I've heard).

 

So... If you get all that, why care with a desktop environment at all?!

 

The answer is: it depends on your needs. You might want to know what a desktop environment is made for. A window manager has only a few standard capabilities: resize, move... with borders, title bar... So each window manager tries to do a little more: menus, icons...

But each window manager does this in its own way. So imagine you're the programmer: you have to adapt your code for integration in each of those window manager's menus, toolbars...

The answer is Desktop Environments. They define the way all is managed (except windows themselves):

  • - taskbar,

- menus,

- minimized windows,

- available area for maximized windows (without overlapping with toolbars),

- drag'n'drop,

- some file-management issues,

- a customized login screen,

- and much more...

 

Then it is up to the programmer of a window manager to modify the window manager so that it is compliant with the desktop environment's specifications.

 

The best known Desktop Environments are Gnome, KDE, and Rox.

Gnome's default window manager is Sawfish (in Mandrake), and KDE (K Desktop Environment)'s default window manager is KWM (K Window Manager), which I think only works when it is with KDE (it is an exception). But you can change KDE's or Gnome's window manager and choose Fluxbox, or Enlightment, for example. But read the WM's doc because not all window managers are KDE- or Gnome-compliant.

So you'll choose KDE if you need your KDE-aware applications to automatically integrate the KDE desktop, and you'll choose Gnome if you want your Gnome-aware applications to seemlessly integrate the Gnome desktop. Else just choose any Window manager you like.

 

You thought that was all?? Not quite 8)

 

The situation is now that progammers only have to care about 4 or 5 :cry: desktop environments' specifications, instead of caring about tens :x (hundred?) window managers' specifications. That's much better, but not enough. So something must be done, so that the programmer only has to care about one (or two) set of specifications :).

 

The first step in that direction was the unification of menus.

Since Debian's version I-dont-know-which, and since Mandrake's version 7.2, there is a small package installed at install-time, called "menu" (simple as that). This package (some don't like it at all) is the "magic glue" between Gnome's menu (whatever the window manager), KDE's menu (whatever the window manager), and many other window managers' menus (Window Maker, IceWM, Fluxbox, FVWM, Matchbox... when used stand-alone). When you use MenuDrake, all menus are managed together (that's why it's so slow). That way, you can one day use Gnome, the other day use KDE, the next day use Window Maker, and you should see almost the same menus. Cool, isn't it. So you're able to easily explore your way to the environment you prefer.

 

But if your choice is a window manager or desktop environment that is not managed by the "menu" package, then most probably you'll have to customize the menus yourself; some window managers provide GUI tools for that, some others let you modifiy text files.

 

For things other than menus, things are slowly improving. You can follow ideas and development on http://www.freedesktop.org/.

 

Wow, I'm done! Now it's up to you.

 

Yves.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

I hope this will help. Please correct me if you find any mistake (or if some things have changed since the time of this post, though I've already done some changes).

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