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mdk 2007.0 official, woes and woes


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Have you considered something like this to add to your linux arsenal?




This isn't the only linux book out there and definetely not the cheapest, but a nice desk-side reference book could go a long way.


I've had the above book in my library (along with a few other linux guides) and have found it invaluable in reminding me how to do some of those obscure and often forgotten tasks. A very worthwhile investment.


In fact there's even free ones out there (of course) in pdf form, though often not as well laid out with examples.





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Hey Guys & Gals .... Many tnx to all of you who have given of yr time & energy to help all us lost folks. Even you sarcastic, liberte-fry crowd, with your disgusting vernacular, pomposity & my glass is not even half-full - its busted attitude. Lets get this straight - I simply hate the goal-posts being manipulated - whilst in play. The real biggie with Linux is that there are more distros & packages & dependencies than ice-cream flavors.


I found old Mandrake very easy to configure, 99% CLI, even got 3G & GPRS working off my PCMCIA card, with a bit of tweaking, on a very old Crusoed, Vaio Picturebook, with a lot of help from friends on the net. Grasias!!


Many flavors later ... oh about 15/20 Gigs worth .. I bought a store copy of 2006 DVD simply out of curiosity. Again ... dont ask me which flavor as I couldnt guess correctly on a bet. { am I the only one confused? } I burned the isos & rocked .... great !! Everything as PURE ROOT. Hey Gay Paree - do you know that I actually run all my machines as Administrator!!?? NAW!! COMEON DUDE ??!!?? I digress ...Oh Wow !! 2006 even read my NTFS files & USB everything. Had minor PCMCIA probs with 3G, but would tackle those later as 802.11g was smoking. I spot 2007 & grab the DVD - big distro - 4.5G - upgrade after reading Alez On Das Net & the SOB crashes X. To wit, on a fresh install, cannot even get wireless to work & I have RPMs coming out of my ears, Distro this, Distro that, nothing works ... one really needs a big pipe to grab all the garbage required by URPMI. Of course we need to do some work also. The Inspector Cluseau in some of you will ask about data?? All gone, but never fear, Microsquish has a lock on that. Lost a lot of time, is all. I really liked the 3.5.5? GUI but thats it, my friends. The rest really blows, big time. A LOT like Xandros!! Maybe there is more than just a single French Fry in this mix, what with the good Inspector heading up the decision-making-process. Why - in Buddhas name- would you frustrate +50% of yr fans with this dumb decision? The drivers are free & everywhere. So whats the beef? Why so many pushups for so little benefit. Thats besides all the other things that dont work in anything built on a Monday. Is Mandrivel so desperate for a couple bucks?? I guess. I tried every live CD ... same/same always got excuses or bad exit codes .. some begining with "Bummer" ?? HUH??


The real bummer , se vouz plaiz, is that of the 20/25 X 2006/7, none ever looked or behaved the same ??? I understand that RPM - never liked RH, even looks spooky - is propriety & needs to make a couple bucks to stave off chapter 13, but oh man !!! same/same Fedora Project X !! Nothing works very well, if at all. But Wait!! There's a lite @ the end of this distro-from-hell-dillemna Tunnel ... MYAH 3.2SE ..!! IT ALL WORKS .. right-out-of-the-box, folks. No Jive Man!! Now I have nothing to do ... NIX NADA ZILCH ZERO ... except to tell you guys that help is nigh. MYAH is SLACK is KISS !!! Get religion.


Grab these 4 links, ALL FREE - really FREE ... 1 - MYAH iso.. 2 - SUN ISO burner, 3 - DOWNLOAD MANAGER - Get this first & everthing else is much easier ... 4 - GAG - a bootloader which will save yr ass some day ... 5 - XP or any 2K/XP boot or install disc, in case you panic & need to repair MBR ... 6 - CFDISK - as MYAH HDD install will overwrite yr MBR !!! Dont Panic !! Easy !! Simply follow the directions below !!! TO THE TEE !!!


BTW - all this is in MYAH - my way is for the Putz in all of us, or ultimate KISS CONTROL ..

SCENARIOS ... WIN on C:\ .. maybe data on D:\ .. .. free space on D:\ say 50G .. Create C:\data on C:\ - transfer all data to said C:\data. Use XP or 2K, hit manage computer, then disc management & delete D:\ ...

Create new D:\ drive of say 25G & new E:\ of say the balance ... at least 10/15G for LINUX ... format all & check & defrag .. move yr data from C:\data back to D:\DATA ... defrag new D:\ ..


Reboot with ANY Linux ISO .I use an old SLACK BOOT DISK... normally you will be required to log in as ROOT - OK ... do it.

Somewhere you will see CFDISK and/or FDISK and SETUP .. use CFDISK, delete that E:\ drive now probaly called HDA3 or WHY ... simply remember yr 2 Win drives are the first 2 ... C&D .. create a new partition, make it mountable, all except say 500M for a SWAP file. Format one with EXT2, theo other simply SWAP, write to disk, type YES x 2 & REBOOT ... use same bootdisk & enter ROOT again, now hit SETUP ... SEUP ONLY ADDSWAP & TARGET - you will get to format both .. then EXIT & REBOOT with MYAH CD .. do live install .. it does work, unlike so many others that do not ... then go to MYAH TOOLS .. hit HDD install, using myah as root p/w ... source OK then install data to HDA3 or 5 ... then install LILO to same place .. DO NOT INSTALL TO HDA1 or HDA !!! IT WILL OVER WRITE YR MBR ... INSTALL TAKES 5/10 MIN .. REBOOT TO WIN ... insert GAG BOOTDISK .. & REBOOT .. read everything & install ... this part is braindead stuff ... reboot & hit either the LINX or WIN icon ... voila !! If MYAH is the only OS then its a lot simpler ... Good Luck & Enjoy ... BR>Pete


All WXP ...

http://www.freedownloadmanager.org/ DOWNLOAD MANAGER FOR ALL OF THE ABOVE ..

ftp://ftp.iasi.roedu.net/mirrors/myah.org/ - MYAH ISO

http://sourceforge.net/projects/gag/ - BOOTLOADER

http://www.soft32.com/Download/Free/Sun_CD...4-122379-1.html - SUN CD/DVD w/o all the NERO shit

Like some wag once said "Linux needs a haircut, a clean shirt & decent shoes, before the business community takes it seriously" Now theres MYAH - be afraid - be very afraid - Jeremiah just bought an Armani Suit!!


PS You know what is so great ??? All this stuff is FREE man !! Donate to the good cause !!!

PPS Helmut - JUST DO IT !!!!


[edited by arctic]

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Sound like a commercial,,, Time to fast forward.

Well he makes some decent points but what he seems to have missed out on is....

Erm well... yep urmpi sure does benfit from a fat pipe ... sure... as do security updates but then I guess if your running X as root security is hardly your first concern ;)


Secondly .. well fine why would I trust MYAH? what can the do to convince me they even know what security is ...

myah.org - Home

Mambo - the dynamic portal engine and content management system.


Hm... yep a default install Mambo site... heck the meta tag can be changed through the backend .. just select the template and edit_html...


Like some wag once said "Linux needs a haircut, a clean shirt & decent shoes, before the business community takes it seriously" Now theres MYAH - be afraid - be very afraid - Jeremiah just bought an Armani Suit!!

He may have spent his time better actually editing a bit of html?

But the real point is if what you want are the pre-installed apps then fine... if not then hmm... what's it based on? Slackware with its dependency resolution? Nothing against this of course but ?? Isn't that a bit of a jump going from All packages preinstalled to "your on your own here" slackware tgz's?


The real biggie with Linux is that there are more distros & packages & dependencies than ice-cream flavors.

Sure and it needs another like a hole in the head... ??


We already have one Slackware based distro where everything works.(well so long as its part of the default install).. look no further than Suse but perhaps Jeramiah is afraid he needs to wear lederhosen if he uses a German distro?

and they got over the slackware tgz... sure they selected RPM ... hardly the best choice but a step above tgz's forr n00bs.


Ayt the same time he makes some decent points .. the hardware working_notworking_working releases of Mandriva are hardly a shining example... but is that cause to make a brand new distro by putting the slackware flavour ina different cone?

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My biggest Linux peeve is bogus information given on Linux forums on logging in as root. Unlike most of the people who tell us not to do it, have never tried it, and will admit it, but still claim they know what will happen. I started with Linux in Dec. 1999, and until 2003, I used ONLY root login.




I was vilified rather angrily by some really belligerent and aggressive people when I said so on a forum. This somewhat angered me, so I spent quite a bit of time trying to find out what was true and what wasn't true about logging in as root.


1. If it is your own computer, and you are willing to stand any costs of problems, as unlikely as they are, and you happen to have any reason whatsoever to log in as root, it is no one's business, nor do you need to explain or apologize. Especially explain. I might question your intelligence if you took an axe to an expensive new computer, but if you want, and don't try to file for insurance later, that is your business.


2. If you are using someone else's computer, whether a friend's or your bosses, it is imperative you never log in as root. The legal term in American law is "fiduciary responsibility". I agree absolutely with Gowater's statement that she would fire anyone on second offense, except if I were her, I would probably tell them when they were hired they were not to log in as root ON MY COMPUTER, and would fire them on the first offense. This isn't even about root; this is about whether you want to receive your paycheck from me. The same thing applies to any other work rule I make, RIGHT OR WRONG. Follow the stated rules or go home. If it takes you longer to do it that way, you are getting paid for it. Plus if you work with Gowater, she will rather quickly and efficiently teach you the ways to do those things. (I had no one to show me anything.)


Let me add that while I am not sure what Gowater does outside of post here, she seems to be a high rated geek, and if she can't routinely select employees from the top 10% of geekhood who don't need that training, maybe she also needs to be fired. :)


Thus, by the time someone works for her, they should be able to run the command line very well. If she hires someone who can't do all the stuff from user mode, she has made a serious hiring error.


I am generally down around the half way point of all Linux geeks, except where I am, Third World rural Mexico, and in retirement I have only minimal experience with networks because I just don't have a network to use, which thus shoves me way down the geek ladder.


3. Logging in as user does give more security, especially when connected to the Web. It is logging in as user which makes it impossible for viruses, trojans, and spyware to be helpless on Linux. If everyone logs in as root, Linux would soon be as messed up as Win is.


4. One bogus statement made is that su protects you from messing up your machine. I have had a standing challenge for some years, anyone who believes that, take your best computer with all the important stuff on it, and su, then type:


rm -fR /*


and hit the enter key. Then, when you get to a computer that works, let us know how well su protected your machine. Note that I am not 100% sure on this, because I simply won't try it on my good machine because I am convinced su won't save you. If you think su will save you, show us.


5. I went to ShieldsUp and checked my machine. Nothing open. I logged in as root, same result.


6. I asked on a Security forum what really happened when logged in as root, and all they could tell me was at one time SANE had a bug which would go crazy and start wiping out HD stuff.


7. Logging in as root does not chop off your fingers. it does not wrench off your arms. And, it does not cause a flaming wreck. These sorts of analogies are counterproductive. Neither does it cause your computer to blow up and kill you. All it does is reduce security below the maximum.


8. I agree with creating that file of command line semantics. I also have that in my ~ folder, MY_LINUX_COMMANDS file, and any weird thing goes there with an explanation so I don't need to open a terminal and struggle to decipher a complex man page. I do keep it in alphabetical order, though.


8. If I had stubbornly logged in only as user, I would not be using Linux today. No, I am not going to defend that statement to anyone, but I know myself very well. In 1999, two years after I retired, there was only what I call "Linux quality documentation" which meant in those days, total junk. To date, I have only personally known two people besides myself who use Linux, plus a brilliant woman here in rural Mexico who was given a thesis project to program for her diploma in Software engineering -- I taught her how to run Linux for that project. She did not need to be told anything twice and she got her diploma.


One is a programmer in Texas, and the other is a man in Mexico City. I had no one except what is today called justllinux.com for help, and it was very slow to figure out anything, even with their help. When you work in or with a group of people, learning is many times faster.


Today, there are a lot of good tech writers producing Linux docs, and with google one can get help in a few minutes.


As time passed, I gradually learned more techniques on getting work done in user mode. So, when I bought this new laptop, I set it up in user mode. I learned how to modify the icons for programs I needed, which made them run as superuser, You do this by -->Propterties -->Application -->Advanced Options --> Run as a different user, then input user name, in this case, root. which then requires you to input the password as it opened. Be sure to rename icon as 'super user' so you are not confused.


Still, for example, konqueror can't open a terminal window in root mode under TOOLS, and run anything as it can in user mode. It can delete files better, but not open a terminal. (If you want a real safety rule, learned by DOS/Win users years ago, do not ever delete files from the command line if you have a choice.) The fix for difficulty in deleting directories in user/su mode was I finally noticed the -d for rm.


Today, I do very little experimenting, so seldom need to log in as root. Plus, as I said, gradually, I learned the other techniques. I probably don't log in as root once a year now.


Comments edited out by Ixthusdan

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I am adding a couple of notes here as an administrator.


The membership at MUB are free to discuss computing issues and agree or disagree as suits the poster. Running one's computer all the time as root is done all day long in every Microsoft Windows computer in the world. Clearly the issue is beyond why it ought not be done rather than whether or not it actually can be done.


Making statements that might be construed as derogatory are not allowed on this board. The moderators and admins live all over the world, and we have learned through our collective wisdom and through sometimes unfortunate circumstances that what is said in one geographic place is not good to say in another. Any comments that we deem as possibly poorly stated will be removed.


Please keep your comments focused upon your points and your enthusiasm focused upon precise communication.


BTW, Gowator, unless you have changed and not mentioned it, I believe you are still a male member of the species, yes? :lol:

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The reason not to log into root is quite simple:

You leave yourself more open to a hacker getting root on your system. If you are running some program that has a security flaw (userland ones, like xchat...gaim...etc.), and a hacker exploits a security hole in that program, he can immediately gain root access. No password guessing. No other hacks to do privilege escalation. And just because you don't have any ports open, doesn't mean you can't still be hacked. You're still on the internet, and you're still sending packets that can be intercepted and used to gain access. Not all remote exploits require you to have inbound ports open.

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Hi folks,

it seems my posting a long way back was like poking a stick into a wasps nest!

Some folks obviously feel very strongly about running the GUI as root or not. Unfortunately, that proceedure seems unavoidable for termal-ignorants like me trying to setup their Mandriva 2007 system. Hopefully that will be resolved, but thats not the issue!


The main point remains:

Not every user understands using a terminal and that fact that will remain so, if we like it or not! Beginners certainly don't understand terminals, and many others just don't want to either. But in spite of this those users must be capable of configuring and using their system to full 100% extent without using any terminal at all! If the software doesn't let or support them, then there is something awfully wrong with it, but not with the user! If Linux can not resolve this issue, Microsoft has little to worry about, and for very good reason.



Mandrake became so popular, because for the first time in Linux so many graphical tools replaced the need of doing almost everthing from a terminal. Other Linux'es still required a terminal for the most basic things, but Mandrake was different and became popular for exactly that reason. But if a beginner needs a terminal for even the most basic stuff, why should beginners turn to linux? Would a beginner want to plague himself with cryptical mysteries on a horribly configured, hardly working system? Hell no, unless we were all masochists! Otherwise, perhaps we might be wrestling with Darwin, or some other OS that most of us will never understand no matter how much we try.


In the light of that, it should be possible to say if Mandriva continues being the leader in terms of excellent graphical tools replacing terminals, Mandriva's popularity is nothing we should worry about.


On the other hand, if certain things can not be done any more without a terminal, the reason for Mandriva's popularity would have vanished! Remember, Mandriva 2007 is the first that does not allow users to log in as root. While this is no issue for those using terminals, it remains to be seen as an insurmountable obstacle for beginners.



After having said that, let me clarify this:


If you want to discuss running the desktop as root, well so be it.

As far as I am concerned, I practically never run my desktop as root. It was only once and only for one specific reason that it seemed unavoidable. For users like me ignorant about terminals, we need to operate and configure our system without terminals. Then and only then is when I was logged in as root. If it does not remain possible, Mandriva 2007 can not be the correct choice for us any more. This creates unnecessary installation woes and avoidable grief. Period!




Edited by Helmut
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Que Paso Senor ... glad we got the juices flowing .. would gladly refrain from any trashy vernacular - as befits a forum of learning, but phrases like RATS ASS, et al, plus what appeared to be more of a lecture in symantics, rather than any solutions to any problems, deemed some sort of retort. Amen.

I have run OS2, DOS xxx, Win xxx, plus 20 flavors of Linux - all as ROOT so when a distro such as Man goes south instead of north I get a little fried. Loved everything about 6 .. 7 went away on me. Strangely, not a single soul has addressed that 802.11g issue, let alone solved it.

To wit - I run several successful businesses - all via the net - and am the boss - nobody, but nobody who had access to any of my machines would EVER be able to log-on as Admin or Root ... period. Thats not even an issue .. never was. I am a responsible, reasonable person & love technology - I am downloading another flavor as we speak - luv dem big pipes, man.... will let you guys know ...99% DONE - gotta go !! TNX & BR>Pete

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Well, the topic is everything about Mandriva problems except a flamewar about root or non-root logins. That is completely off-topic and has been discussed at lengths again and again in other topics. ;)

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Well, the topic is everything about Mandriva problems except a flamewar about root or non-root logins.
Thank you :thumbs: - I couldn't find the original topic on this page, and I'm too lazy to look back to the first page :D
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