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mdk 2007.0 official, woes and woes


Helmut
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More on the "GUI as root" topic...

It's more correct to refer to running a GUI application as root, rather than running the GUI as root. I don't think anyone is suggesting we launch music or video as root and browse the internet. What I very occasionally do - especially when I setup up a new linux system - is update urpmi, edit kdmrc, fstab, xorg.conf, sensors.conf, setup user directories and avatars, move files from one location to another - and so on, all in one session, until everything is close to what I want. I have five regular users on my main system so there's lots of home directories and such. Sometimes over the last few releases, kdesu, sudo, or running an app as another user options fail. KDEinit fails (well reported but never repaired) - this is happening to me with 2007 when I try and launch konqueror from a konsole window after doing "su".

 

The non-gui option can be very time consuming because I do ten things at once with the GUI. Not to mention the vi and emacs command structure are not intuitive and require a somewhat large learning curve.

 

As an old DOS 3.1 user, I tend to use the GUI when it's something I rarely mess with or - in the case of kwrite vs. vi - when it's actually faster. Once I grasp the command line equivalant - in my case urpmi over MCC packager - I prefer the command line because I feel I have more control and better error output.

 

And my final point (let the rant begin) - The lack of control over MY system - i.e. some programmer deciding what I should or shouldn't do - is EXACTLY why most of us (IMHO) use linux in the first place. If I wanted big brother telling me how my system should run, should look, should be - then why bother learning to setup linux at all? Micro$oft has made billions from all the computer user robots who don't care if it works right or fast or their way as long as someone else is to blame when it crashes. Me? - I hate being a victim. I'd rather be in charge of my own destiny and blame myself if I screw it up.

Edited by oshunluvr
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Not to mention the vi and emacs command structure are not intuitive and require a somewhat large learning curve.

 

nano or joe are 2 very simple to use CLI based text editors.

 

With sources set up:

 

urpmi nano

urpmi joe

 

I'll never get the hang of vi in my lifetime and nano is usually the first thing I install after a fresh install.

 

Regards,

Crispus

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More on the "GUI as root" topic...

It's more correct to refer to running a GUI application as root, rather than running the GUI as root. I don't think anyone is suggesting we launch music or video as root and browse the internet. What I very occasionally do - especially when I setup up a new linux system - is update urpmi, edit kdmrc, fstab, xorg.conf, sensors.conf, setup user directories and avatars, move files from one location to another - and so on, all in one session, until everything is close to what I want. I have five regular users on my main system so there's lots of home directories and such. Sometimes over the last few releases, kdesu, sudo, or running an app as another user options fail. KDEinit fails (well reported but never repaired) - this is happening to me with 2007 when I try and launch konqueror from a konsole window after doing "su".

The next surprise: "Root Logins not allowed"! No, this is not a sick joke, and I'm not kidding, no root logins allowed!

 

The non-gui option can be very time consuming because I do ten things at once with the GUI. Not to mention the vi and emacs command structure are not intuitive and require a somewhat large learning curve.

Two seperate things ... I personally find I can do more at once and more efficently from the CLI.

Out of your list I would probably only use a GUI tool for creating users dir and avatars .. everything else can just be backgrounded like updating urpmi and I'd probably use kate started as root for the config files if I want cut n paste but I rarely have to do this since I just copy the old ones back..

 

 

As an old DOS 3.1 user, I tend to use the GUI when it's something I rarely mess with or - in the case of kwrite vs. vi - when it's actually faster. Once I grasp the command line equivalant - in my case urpmi over MCC packager - I prefer the command line because I feel I have more control and better error output.

Can't argue with that.

 

 

And my final point (let the rant begin) - The lack of control over MY system - i.e. some programmer deciding what I should or shouldn't do - is EXACTLY why most of us (IMHO) use linux in the first place. If I wanted big brother telling me how my system should run, should look, should be - then why bother learning to setup linux at all? Micro$oft has made billions from all the computer user robots who don't care if it works right or fast or their way as long as someone else is to blame when it crashes. Me? - I hate being a victim. I'd rather be in charge of my own destiny and blame myself if I screw it up.

What lack of control?

Noone is stopping you doing anything except what is not possible..

Want to log in as root then find the config file and edit .. its only 2 letters to delete and 3 to add?

 

That this isn't a default is just common sense ...more people by far would object to having a root login in KDM than wouldn't? Any distro that has a root login is going to be continually berated as a toy disto.. no serious linux pro would even have a root login let alone use one so that means everyone who doesn't want it has to remove it.

Why are you ranting just about root? Why not have a GUI login for apache and one for mysql as well?

Or on the other side why even have a login? Why not set the password to null and just boot straight into root? or use the autologin for a default user?

 

Someone has to decide whether a certain binary decision is YES or NO or add another step to the install...

Do you want a root login ? Y/N

Do you want a mysql login Y/N

Do you want .......... (about 20 other default users) login ?

 

So you can either do this or allow every user a GUI login by default?

 

Personally, If I caught anyone working for me using a root GUI login on any *NIX I would give them a written warning and a second time I'd sack them straight off as would more or less anyone who is responsible for admin'ing a professional *nix network. If I could have convinced HR just how stupid and irresponsible it is I'd just fire them but usuall HR demand a written warning first. So far as Im concerned anyone who logs into X as root is not fit to work in a *nix environment, full stop, no discussion.

 

The default has to be one way or the other if it allows root GUI logings then Mandriva will be written up as a second rate distro that doesn't take security seriously ...wheras this way round it just causes people who don't know better to complain and hopefully by the time they work out how to edit a single line they have realised how irresponsible it is to log in as root.

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Hi ..2007 sure is a dog ... my beef is worse .. but 2006 is cool. Plus my machine isnt known for its simplicity. What really pissed me off was the non-free driver garbage - even though I had all the INTEL ATI etc, on my 2006 DVD/CDR could not get them to talk to each other ... ROOT is another big issue .... I have been dressing my self for a while now & dont need mamas permission - besides shes dead ... so give me back my root.... I have been running boxes as admin from day one - screw this typing crap at every turn. I dont do that under W2K/XP !! All I want is a box that works ... I love the pioneer-bit in all of us, but dont make me pay more for less. Xandros did that to me also & lost me .... I actually liked Xandros - nice easy stable desktop ... but it always whined & whinged about letting me do anything ... could never get 3G to work on that sucker .... but on a 450Meg Pocket Rocket I was firing on all 3G cylinders in 10 min. Its of course a great pity that XP is finally really running like a bandit & SURPRISE - they bring out VISTA ... HOO BOY !!!!

NB Sony Vaio A290 1GRAM 110G HDD 802 B/T DVD ATI Memory Stick, alles inc kitchen sink - couple things dont work, but same-old under XP ....

Cheer up Lads .... we could be sitting on a hill of sand & rocks nowhere ....

BR>Pete

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Hi ..2007 sure is a dog ... my beef is worse .. but 2006 is cool. Plus my machine isnt known for its simplicity. What really pissed me off was the non-free driver garbage - even though I had all the INTEL ATI etc, on my 2006 DVD/CDR could not get them to talk to each other ... ROOT is another big issue .... I have been dressing my self for a while now & dont need mamas permission - besides shes dead ... so give me back my root.... I have been running boxes as admin from day one - screw this typing crap at every turn. I dont do that under W2K/XP !! All I want is a box that works ... I love the pioneer-bit in all of us, but dont make me pay more for less. Xandros did that to me also & lost me .... I actually liked Xandros - nice easy stable desktop ... but it always whined & whinged about letting me do anything ... could never get 3G to work on that sucker .... but on a 450Meg Pocket Rocket I was firing on all 3G cylinders in 10 min. Its of course a great pity that XP is finally really running like a bandit & SURPRISE - they bring out VISTA ... HOO BOY !!!!

NB Sony Vaio A290 1GRAM 110G HDD 802 B/T DVD ATI Memory Stick, alles inc kitchen sink - couple things dont work, but same-old under XP ....

Cheer up Lads .... we could be sitting on a hill of sand & rocks nowhere ....

BR>Pete

Having a box that works and running a GUI as root are mutually incompatible.

Is 2007 a dog? Well its certainly looking that way ... is the driver issue garbage yes... but NOONE HAS TAKEN AWAY THE RIGHT TO LOG IN AS ROOT....

That is simply incorrect either through your ignorance or because you don't care if that box runs the next day. Changing the kdmrc file take a few seconds.. just don't compain when you trash your system ..

 

However why not just boot directly into X as root? You obviously don't give a rats ass about your system getting screwed so just replace the dm script with startx ... that way you boot directly into root with no login.. or you can just set the root password to null. passwd -n

 

Alternatively just run a liveCD.... if all you want is a box that runs....

the part that esacpes me is you say you just wants a box that runs .. yet you obviously want to mess with it or it wouldn't keep wining and whinging .. you need to decide if you want one or the other.

 

its your box .. do with it what you will

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While understanding your point about not logging in as root perfectly well, for someone totally ignorant to operating a terminal, the MCC logged in as root often remains the only other way to do certain things. I need it only very seldom, but there is simply no graphical replacement that comes to mind.

 

You do not need to be logged into an X session to use MCC. MCC is available regardless of who's session it is, it will just pop up a window asking for the root password. MCC requires root privilege! Are you saying you cannot access MCC unless you log into the system as root? I find that difficult to believe.

 

If you want to make using MCC as easy as using any other app though, you can use visudo and sudo to do it. This does require a short session with a terminal though. On the plus side, you only have to do the terminal thing once.

 

Open a terminal, type "su" then press enter, it will ask for root's password, enter it and press enter. (You will notice the prompt has likely changed.) Type "visudo", then press enter. This opens the configuration file you need to alter in a vi session, don't be intimidated, it's not difficult, and you should only need to do this once, and if you make a bad error, it won't save it anyway.

 

Once you are looking at this file, press "i". (This puts the editor in the "insert mode".) Use the cursor (not the mouse!) and move down to the lines that read something like:

 

# Same thing without a password

# %wheel ALL=(ALL) NOPASSWD: ALL

 

Now, type the following:

 

<your_user_name> localhost = NOPASSWD: /usr/sbin/drakconf

 

After you have done so, press the escape key, then type ":wq" (without the quotes).

 

Now, on the toolbar, and/or the desktop (whereever you have the icon), right click and click "properties", choose the application tab, put this in there:

 

sudo '/usr/sbin/drakconf'

 

Click "OK", and then, from now on, it will open without even asking for the root password.

 

Thats why I can not do without it, no matter how seldom it is needed. For that reason I am now using a different distro, but I hope to find time to switch back later - of course after I see a solution for the "no login as root" problem. I have tried very long with consoles and their commands, and that is not an option for me. If it were, maybe I would be running BSD, who knows...

Greets,

Helmut

 

Give my suggestion a try, I'll bet it works for you.

 

 

Yeah, right again.

But its not only the MCC, some things can only be done logged in as root with a graphical interface for "Terminal-ignorants" like me.

Cheers,

Helmut

 

You can use the suggestion I made to be able to do any clickable app you have, you just put a comma after the "NOPASSWD: /usr/sbin/drakconf" and add another app. If you just want everything that requires a root login to work make the line read:

 

If you want to make using MCC as easy as using any other app though, you can use visudo and sudo to do it. This does require a short session with a terminal though. On the plus side, you only have to do the terminal thing once.

 

Open a terminal, type "su" then press enter, it will ask for root's password, enter it and press enter. (You will notice the prompt has likely changed.) Type "visudo", then press enter. This opens the configuration file you need to alter in a vi session, don't be intimidated, it's not difficult, and you should only need to do this once, and if you make a bad error, it won't save it anyway.

 

Once you are looking at this file, press "i". (This puts the editor in the "insert mode".) Use the cursor (not the mouse!) and move down to the lines that read something like:

 

<your_user_name> localhost = NOPASSWD: ALL

 

You can also change any other application to run as root (i.e. konqueror) you want by right-clicking and changing the application command, or clicking the advanced mode and choosing run as different user put in root and your password. Thought is you have to have a gui to be able to do normal system maintenance, I would have trouble calling you an advanced user. No offense meant, if you take some, that's you.

 

If you want to do this, it's on your head. It's sort of like disabling anti-lock brakes because it doesn't give the kind of control you want - you LIKE locking up the brakes and making it sound cool! It might be dangerous, but it is your choice.

 

Take a look at this for a good chuckle on the subject.

Edited by riseringseeker
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Hi risering seeker,

I get your point, just as Gowater's point.

Actually I'm quite familiar using the MCC in the "basic" graphical mode. Its a fantasic tool I do not want to miss. Mandriva's graphical tools and in particular the MCC is why I prefer Mandriva.

The mouse was made to work using the MCC in the "basic" graphical mode. It was not working right after install, because it was not recognized correctly.

 

But no, thats not the point! A challenge: Try to set up a system that is just a little complexer than the average system without using a terminal and without being able to log in as root, and you will see what I mean. It just is not possible!

 

No, I do not run the system logged in as root, and I do not want to wreck it either. I just want to be able to set it up so it works as I want, it recognizes some additional vfat drives, and maybe this or that else. Nothing big, then after it is installed I will probably never need to login as root again. Thats all!

I wonder how many people are stumped by this and in the end finally give up installing Mandriva! For people who actually do know how to do the stuff with a terminal, this problem probably never shows up. Because it does not show up to those folks, they will fail to understand how this becomes an insolvable problem for others.

 

 

Those wondering what all the fuss is about, just try to install a complex system without being able to log in as root, and 100% without using a terminal! You will see where the problems arrise, why it does not work, and you will also see there is simply no other solution than setting it up without least once logging in as root. Before declaring this all nonsense, try it for yourself and see!!

 

Greets,

Helmut

Edited by Helmut
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Hi risering seeker,

I get your point, just as Gowater's point.

Actually I'm quite familiar using the MCC in the "basic" graphical mode. Its a fantasic tool I do not want to miss. Mandriva's graphical tools and in particular the MCC is why I prefer Mandriva.

The mouse was made to work using the MCC in the "basic" graphical mode. It was not working right after install, because it was not recognized correctly.

 

You've used the term '"basic" graphical mode' twice now, is there an "advanced" graphical mode I am not aware of? Please take no offense at this, but I am beginning to think english is not your native language, and we may be in agreement here, and both of us just not realizing it, as the words/terms are getting in the way of understanding what the other really means. That said, if I am correct, you do light years better in english than I would be capable of doing in any other language.

 

But no, thats not the point! A challenge: Try to set up a system that is just a little complexer than the average system without using a terminal and without being able to log in as root, and you will see what I mean. It just is not possible!

 

I do not understand why you want to deny yourself such a valuable tool. One can build a large wooden structure without ever using a hammer (the Mormon Tabernacle was built this way), but you have to use other tools that don't work as quickly or as well, and limit yourself, but if you want to do so, it is possible.

 

You say "without being able to log in as root", this might be where the misunderstanding comes in, what exactly do you mean by this if not logging into the X system as root? I am guessing you know that every time you successfully use MCC, you are doing so as root.

 

If indeed you are logging into from the login prompt as root, what tools do you believe this gives you that is not available any other way? Give me some examples, please. I bet (though it would be a pain, given your apparent fear or loathing of using a terminal) that I can get anything done you wish without having logged into an X session as root.

 

No, I do not run the system logged in as root, and I do not want to wreck it either.

 

OK, again then, what do you mean by logging in as root, if here you say you are not doing so?

 

I just want to be able to set it up so it works as I want, it recognizes some additional vfat drives, and maybe this or that else. Nothing big, then after it is installed I will probably never need to login as root again. Thats all!

 

I have several additional drives, both internal and external set up, recognized and accessible from my desktop box (currently typing away from home on the laptop), FAT, NTFS and FAT32 and not once did I have to log in as root to do so, nor did I have to do what you seem to hate so much - use a terminal window.

 

And of course, if you ever wish to update your system, or install system-wide accessible programs, you will have to use root priveldges.

 

I wonder how many people are stumped by this and in the end finally give up installing Mandriva! For people who actually do know how to do the stuff with a terminal, this problem probably never shows up. Because it does not show up to those folks, they will fail to understand how this becomes an insolvable problem for others.

 

That's because it simply is not insolvable.

 

Those wondering what all the fuss is about, just try to install a complex system without being able to log in as root, and 100% without using a terminal! You will see where the problems arrise, why it does not work, and you will also see there is simply no other solution than setting it up without least once logging in as root. Before declaring this all nonsense, try it for yourself and see!!

 

I can't see denying myself as valuable and powerful a tool as CLI, but so far, I still don't see what you wish to do without a CLI that can't be accomplished without logging in as root.

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I still don't see what you wish to do without a CLI that can't be accomplished without logging in as root.

 

No, I do not run the system logged in as root, and I do not want to wreck it either.

 

OK, again then, what do you mean by logging in as root, if here you say you are not doing so?

 

If indeed you are logging into from the login prompt as root, what tools do you believe this gives you that is not available any other way? Give me some examples, please. I bet (though it would be a pain, given your apparent fear or loathing of using a terminal) that I can get anything done you wish without having logged into an X session as root.

This is the whole point...

Instead of complaining that the system BY DEFAULT doesn't allow a root GUI login give some specific examples and then people can tell you HOW to do what you think is not possible from a GUI.

 

There are several things that can only be achived by a CLI/terminal but these are not things most people would stumble into by accident and in fact are items that would not be available on Windows or evenon Mac OS-X without using the root account. I might also be wrong in some of them that GUI tools DO exist... however riseringseeker makes a good point ... why set yourself the limit of building a house without using nails or screws?

Is it possible? certainly but the type of house you can build is limited by the tools and materials you allow yourself to work with.

If you are trying to make a Linux supercomputer cluster with 128 nodes then its extremely possible you will need a CLI.... then again since those nodes have no X server this is hardly suprising but this is not what the average noobies is trying to do...

 

You've used the term '"basic" graphical mode' twice now, is there an "advanced" graphical mode I am not aware of?

This might just be the root (pun intended) of the problem.

In Windows you have different tools when logged in as Administrator.

This simply DOES NOT EXIST in linux.

Linux is a true multiuser environment, this is how it is designed. XP is not.

Hence in Linux there is nothing that cannot be done in a GUI with root privelidges given to that process THAT CAN be done in a GUI logged in as root... and to give that process root privilidges all you need is the menu...

 

I am not saying there is nothing that can't be done from a root terminal that cannot be done from a GUI... I am saying that logging into the GUI as root confers NO BENEFIT whatsoever over logging in as a USER and using sudo in graphical mnode to achieve the task and there are hundreds of things that can be messed up very easily by logging in as root.

But no, thats not the point! A challenge: Try to set up a system that is just a little complexer than the average system without using a terminal and without being able to log in as root, and you will see what I mean. It just is not possible!

 

More complex in what way?

Again, just be specific....

 

The only common thing I can think of which needs using the CLI is installing the nvidia driver from download. This is nothing to do with mandriva in so far as they don't give you that file.. nvidia do.

Now if you mean it should come as an install option I agree.. and I think mandriva leaving it out of the FREE edition is just plain dumb... but having a root GUI does not help or hinder this in ANYWAY...

 

Between using the MCC and other easily available and installable via GUI tools you can do almost everything you could possibly need via the GUI logged in as a user.

 

Yes you will need to type a password.... (unless you turn this off) but so far the count stands at zero for things that can be done as root logged in through the GUI .. and it will regardless of any task you say can only be achieved as root because that is the way linux is designed however if you actually make a list of what you think needs GUI login then peope can provide you with the correct alternatives.

 

Let me explain it like this....

I have supported hundreds of people on *nix and linux professionally.

I have never needed to run X as root .... not once EVER.

If I need to edit a config file I do so with sudo ... and ANYTHING that can be done from sudo can be done from kdesu or gtksu graphically.

This includes changing file permissions and more or less everythig I can think of....

Usually when doing simple on site support I use the GUI because the person who's computer it is is usually sat in front of the keyboard so I just use the mouse and one hand to tap the odd letters I need (like passwords)...

 

In many cases it takes longer than using the CLI..but that doesn't mean its not possible to do it without.

You can even install the nvidia driver from a GUI.... its longer and more complex than from the CLI by a long way but it is still possible without using a terminal once.

 

You can just paste this into any GUI editor and save as nvidinstall.sh

 

#!/bin/sh

#Totally untested on mandriva .. edited to prevent need to run from terminal but still need to restart x with #new driver, dynamically reloading the nvidia driver.. this may hang if nvidia driver is already installed.

#depends on perl, bash, test...

#to use sdave to home directory as nvidiainstall.sh

#to run use run menu and kdesu ~/nvidiainstall.sh

#Feel free to modify... no warranty inferred and no guarantee it won't trash your system.

#

if test -z "`lspci|grep VGA|grep -i nvidia`"; then

echo Error: No nVidia VGA adapter found.

exit 3

fi

if test $(id -u) != 0; then

echo Error: You must be root or su\'d to root to run this script! Start kdesu <path-to-script>/test

exit 4

fi

INSTALLED=""

[ -e /bin/bash ] || INSTALLED="yes"

if [ -n "$INSTALLED" ]; then

if test -n "$DISPLAY"; then

echo Error: running in X, X will be restarted at the end of the script

fi

else

if grep -q unionfs /proc/mounts; then

echo Unionfs found.

else

echo Script uses unionfs Activate Unionfs to use script.

 

fi

fi

#VER=1.0-4620

#URL=http://www.sh.nu/download/nvidia/linux-2.4/

#VER=1.0-5328

#VER=1.0-5336

#VER=1.0-6106

#VER=1.0-6111

VER=1.0-6629

#VER=1.0-7167

#VER=1.0-7174

ARCH=""

[ "$(uname -m)" == "x86_64" ] && ARCH="_64"

URL=ftp://download.nvidia.com/XFree86/Linux-x86$ARCH/$VER/

PKG=0

PATCH=0

HACK=0

FW=1

 

#Get the nvidia package, download and UNPACK-ONLY

cd /usr/src

[ -f NVIDIA-Linux-x86$ARCH-$VER-pkg$PKG.run ] || wget -Nc "$URL"NVIDIA-Linux-x86$ARCH-$VER-pkg$PKG.run

rm -rf NVIDIA-Linux-x86$ARCH-$VER-pkg$PKG

sh NVIDIA-Linux-x86$ARCH-$VER-pkg$PKG.run --extract-only &>/dev/null || (

rm -f NVIDIA-Linux-x86$ARCH-$VER-pkg$PKG.run

echo NVIDIA-Linux-x86$ARCH-$VER-pkg$PKG.run could not be extracted

echo and has been deleted. Please restart this script.

exit 1

) || exit $?

if test "$(kernelversion)" == "2.6" -a "$PATCH" == "1"; then

wget -Nc http://www.minion.de/files/NVIDIA_kernel-$VER-2.6.diff

fi

#steal lalsa to stop it being broken

if test -f /etc/modutils/1alsa; then

mv /lib/modules/extra/alsa /lib/modules/`uname -r`/

rm -f /etc/modutils/1alsa

# update-modules

fi

 

#Find the dm for login will need to be restarted

 

if [ -n "$INSTALLED" ]; then

DM=`cat /etc/X11/default-display-manager 2>/dev/null`

DM=`basename $DM 2>/dev/null`

 

if test -z "$DM"; then

test -e /etc/init.d/kdm && /etc/init.d/kdm stop

else

test -e /etc/init.d/$DM && /etc/init.d/$DM stop

fi

fi

 

rmmod nvidia &>/dev/null

rm -f /lib/modules/`uname -r`/kernel/drivers/video/nvidia.*o

cd NVIDIA-Linux-x86$ARCH-$VER-pkg$PKG

if test -x usr/bin/nvidia-settings; then

rm -f /usr/bin/nvidia-settings

rm -f /usr/local/bin/nvidia-settings

cp usr/bin/nvidia-settings /usr/local/bin

fi

if test "$(kernelversion)" == "2.6"; then

if test "$PATCH" == "1"; then

cd usr/src/nv

patch -p1 < ../../../../NVIDIA_kernel-$VER-2.6.diff

ln -s Makefile.kbuild Makefile

cd ../../..

fi

else

# fix NVIDIA's stupid error in Makefile

perl -pi -e 's/"\$\$\?"/"\$\?"/' Makefile

fi

[ "$(uname -r|cut -d- -f1)" == "2.6.10" ] && perl -pi -e s/pci_find_class/pci_get_class/ usr/src/nv/nv.c

if [ "$(uname -r|grep -E '2.6.11')" != "" -a "$VER" == "1.0-6629" ]; then

echo Script will not work with kernel 2.6.11 and Nvidia 1.0-6629

fi

 

if test "$FW" = "1"; then

perl -pi -e 's/(NVreg_EnableAGPFW =) .*/\1 1;/' usr/src/nv/os-registry.c

fi

CC=gcc-$(perl -pe '($_)=/gcc.[Vv]ersion\s(3\.\d|2\.\d+)/;' /proc/version)

if test -e /usr/bin/$CC; then

make install CC=/usr/bin/$CC IGNORE_CC_MISMATCH=1

else

make install IGNORE_CC_MISMATCH=1

fi

 

cd ..

 

rm -rf NVIDIA-Linux-x86$ARCH-$VER-pkg$PKG

rm -f /etc/modutils/nvidia

perl -pi -e 's|.*char-major-195.*[\n]?||' /etc/modprobe.conf

perl -pi -e 's|[\n]?$|\n|' /etc/modprobe.conf

echo alias char-major-195 nvidia >> /etc/modprobe.conf

#update-modules

#backup xorg.conf

if ! test -e /etc/X11/xorg.conf; then

cp /etc/X11/xorg.conf /etc/X11/xorg.1st

fi

 

#Edit the xorg file to add GL, DRI etc. also copy stuff from backup

perl -p -e 's/^[\s]*Load\s*"GLcore"/#\tLoad "GLcore"/;

s/^[\s]*Load\s*"dri"/#\tLoad "dri"/;

s/^[\s]*#*[\s]*Load\s*"glx"/\tLoad "glx"/;

s/^[\s]*Driver\s*"nv"/\tDriver "nvidia"/g;

s/^[\s]*Driver\s*"fbdev"/\tDriver "nvidia"/g;

s/^[\s]*Driver\s*"vesa"/\tDriver "nvidia"/g;

s/DefaultColorDepth.*/DefaultColorDepth 24/;

s/^[\s]*Option\s*"sw_cursor"/\t#Option "sw_cursor"/;

s/^.*IgnoreDisplayDevices.*\n?//g;

s/^([\s]*Driver\s*"nvidia")/\1\n\tOption "IgnoreDisplayDevices"\t"TV"/g' \

< /etc/X11/xorg.1st > /etc/X11/xorg.conf

 

test "$HACK" == "1" && rm -rf /usr/lib/tls

ldconfig

sync

 

if [ -n "$INSTALLED" ]; then

if test -z "$DM"; then

test -e /etc/init.d/kdm && service dm restart

else

test -e /etc/init.d/$DM && service $DM restart

fi

else

modprobe nvidia

/etc/init.d/xsession restart

fi

Edited by Gowator
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Allright riseringseeker, and Gowator

I do not want to exclude myself from using a terminal, its just that I have problems using it.

My problem is this: The way my mind works, I can not remember the syntax needed and confuse everything. Therefore I prefer using the MCC and whatever other graphical tools are available. Mandriva has the best graphical tools of all the distros I've tested since about mid 2003, and thats why i am using it.

 

I really don't want to elaborate this or get in any argument, but let me you give a more specific example:

You are logged in as "username" on a Gnome desktop. You have added a drive or partition to your box in FAT32. You want to create a link to that drive or partition on your desktop. You have trouble using a Terminal, and you can not log into the desktop as root. But you can log in as "username" and open the MCC with the root password.

 

To create that link, you would probably

- first unmount it, probably using the partitioning tool through the MCC.

- change ownership of the drive, maybe change permissions.

- create the link and put it on the desktop.

 

Logged in as "username" you can call up the MCC entering the root password, but what could you do then? Would you expect an average user to be successful at creating the link? I don't think so, but please correct me if I'm wrong.

Cheers,

Helmut

Edited by Helmut
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Allright riseringseeker, and Gowator

My problem is this: The way my mind works, I can not remember the syntax need. Therefore I prefer using the MCC and whatever other graphical tools are available

This doesn't mean anything

 

ALL GRAPHICAL TOOLS ARE AVAILABLE REGARDLESS OF WHO OWNS THE DESKTOP (who is logged into the GUI)

 

I REPEAT

 

ALL GRAPHICAL TOOLS ARE AVAILABLE REGARDLESS OF WHO OWNS THE DESKTOP (who is logged into the GUI)

 

Just say what you want to do.....???

 

Give me a single thing you can do as ROOT logged into the desktop that you think CANNOT be done any other way or needs the CLI.

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Allright riseringseeker, and Gowator

I do not want to exclude myself from using a terminal, its just that I have problems using it.

My problem is this: The way my mind works, I can not remember the syntax needed and confuse everything. Therefore I prefer using the MCC and whatever other graphical tools are available. Mandriva has the best graphical tools of all the distros I've tested since about mid 2003, and thats why i am using it.

 

I really don't want to elaborate this or get in any argument, but let me you give a more specific example:

You are logged in as "username" on a Gnome desktop. You have added a drive or partition to your box in FAT32. You want to create a link to that drive or partition on your desktop. You have trouble using a Terminal, and you can not log into the desktop as root. But you can log in as "username" and open the MCC with the root password.

 

To create that link, you would probably

- first unmount it, probably using the partitioning tool through the MCC.

- change ownership of the drive, maybe change permissions.

- create the link and put it on the desktop.

 

Logged in as "username" you can call up the MCC entering the root password, but what could you do then? Would you expect an average user to be successful at creating the link? I don't think so, but please correct me if I'm wrong.

Cheers,

Helmut

 

 

OK, I detest Gnome (simply bewcause it makes these things so hard) but I just installed it ....

My USB disk was already mounted .... but I just unmounted it.... so its not there. I don't know any tools and have no MCC·...and Gnome is minimally installed so most tools are not available.

 

I notice I have nautilus .(file manager).. so I start nautilus as a user....on my system this lets me umount the partition???

This is probably because I set it up with user mounbt in the fstab....

Anyway I can also use the Desktop/Administration/Disks tab in the Gnome top menu

... (gtkdiskfree) if Mandriva don't slect it for install.

 

To edit the fstab I just can start nautilus as root (if this involved editing a file in a protected directory it would be easier since I could navigate that directory but I could stick as a user and then go to /etc and select fstab manually and then choose other application and type gksu gedit )

 

I choose a directory and open with another application

I choose custom command and just type

gksu nautilus

I now have a nautilus window running as root and ANY application started by it will also be root .. this includes gedit as default editor so now when I double click it opens the file in gedit as root.

 

[Meanwhile it seems having to select other and typing gksu nautilus is a bit tiring so lets just create a shortcut on the desktop

I just click on the desktop and create the Create Launcher and use "gksu nautilus" as the appllication ... now when I click this I get a nautilus session as root...]

 

 

So off to see my /etc/fstab ....

Choose open with text editor and I have a text editor opening it as root ...

I add a line for the disk

/dev/sda1 /media/sda1 ext3 defaults 0 0

/dev/sdb1 /media/sdb1 vfat umask=000,shortname=mixed,quiet 0 0

(and a vfat one too. )

 

BUT If I create a shortcut as root I will have to edit the permissions .. so why don't I create the shortcut as my user? Thus skipping all that hassle and work?

There is no need to do this, you are just over complicating create the link as a USER....

 

I can create a shotcut simply by right clicking on the desktop and create launcher

I call it CF card and add Command=nautilus /media/sdb1

leave the Type as application and select a big red apple as the icon

 

Now clicking on that icon gives me the FAT partition of the Compact flash card.

 

Much simpler than messing with permissions etc.

Which is why I keep saying unless you know what your doing messing with a file in a root GUI is likely to mess stuff up. Even running nautilus as root will create files with root privs hence use it ONLY for opening an editor etc.

Another simple thing is create a GEDIT icon on your desktop. Just use gksu gedit as the application name...

 

p.s. All of this would be simpler if you had done it as a user to start out and hadn't mounted the drive...because the permisisons were all created as root and FAT needs special mounting options for permissions.

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Allright riseringseeker, and Gowator

I do not want to exclude myself from using a terminal, its just that I have problems using it.

My problem is this: The way my mind works, I can not remember the syntax needed and confuse everything. Therefore I prefer using the MCC and whatever other graphical tools are available. Mandriva has the best graphical tools of all the distros I've tested since about mid 2003, and thats why i am using it.

 

You are not alone there. I too sometimes do things I do not intend to do because of ill formed syntax (i.e. scp'ing or rsync'ing files to the wrong directory). If there is a task I think I will have to do over and over (rsync'ing to a usb drive as a backup method for example), I write it down so I can have reference to it the next time I use it.

 

Also, I have mainly learned what I know of how to use the CLI by searching for what I need here, or in linuxquestions, or just linux googled. (You probably know this, but if you do not, there is a linux specific google page that is invaluable - http://www.google.com/linux )

 

Over the time that I have been using linux, I have come to have a love/hate relationship with both the CLI and the GUI/Wizards. I love the power of the CLI, but like you, sometimes have difficulty with the syntax.

 

The GUI/Wizards are an entirely different problem, not all the options are available with them often times, and they will overwrite my changes sometimes without any input from me, causing loss of what little hair I have left when trying to track down what I did wrong, then finding I didn't do anything wrong, just did not shut of this or that wizard from "correcting" my changes.

 

I really don't want to elaborate this or get in any argument, but let me you give a more specific example:

You are logged in as "username" on a Gnome desktop. You have added a drive or partition to your box in FAT32. You want to create a link to that drive or partition on your desktop. You have trouble using a Terminal, and you can not log into the desktop as root. But you can log in as "username" and open the MCC with the root password.

 

I had never even seen a gnome desktop until yesterday. I decided I would try to take a look at it, I was that bored, having to sit in this hotel with nothing to do for 119 hours. I installed it, though I doubt I installed everything that a regular gnome user would have, being unfamiliar with it.

 

In my KDE desktop, there is a folder entitled "Devices", and any drive that I add just automagically shows up there. Having effectively 0 experience with gnome, I am not the guy to ask.

 

To create that link, you would probably

- first unmount it, probably using the partitioning tool through the MCC.

- change ownership of the drive, maybe change permissions.

- create the link and put it on the desktop.

 

Logged in as "username" you can call up the MCC entering the root password, but what could you do then? Would you expect an average user to be successful at creating the link? I don't think so, but please correct me if I'm wrong.

Cheers,

Helmut

 

Let me poke around and maybe I can tell you, though I see gowater already did, is without question much more versed on how to do things in linux regardless of the interface, and has already answered this.

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Allright riseringseeker, and Gowator

I do not want to exclude myself from using a terminal, its just that I have problems using it.

My problem is this: The way my mind works, I can not remember the syntax needed and confuse everything. Therefore I prefer using the MCC and whatever other graphical tools are available. Mandriva has the best graphical tools of all the distros I've tested since about mid 2003, and thats why i am using it.

 

You are not alone there. I too sometimes do things I do not intend to do because of ill formed syntax (i.e. scp'ing or rsync'ing files to the wrong directory). If there is a task I think I will have to do over and over (rsync'ing to a usb drive as a backup method for example), I write it down so I can have reference to it the next time I use it.

 

Yep I keep a file called useful.txt and everytime I find something cool I just paste it to the end.

You can also use the history file on the CLI and look back and find things you did ...and the bonus is you have all the syntax and just need to change a few variables like DIR or FILE name

 

 

Also, I have mainly learned what I know of how to use the CLI by searching for what I need here, or in linuxquestions, or just linux googled. (You probably know this, but if you do not, there is a linux specific google page that is invaluable - http://www.google.com/linux )

Again excellent and of course you can copy/paste the commands. In KDE you can use konqueror for the man pages... just use man:/<command> in the address bar.

 

Over the time that I have been using linux, I have come to have a love/hate relationship with both the CLI and the GUI/Wizards. I love the power of the CLI, but like you, sometimes have difficulty with the syntax.

 

The GUI/Wizards are an entirely different problem, not all the options are available with them often times, and they will overwrite my changes sometimes without any input from me, causing loss of what little hair I have left when trying to track down what I did wrong, then finding I didn't do anything wrong, just did not shut of this or that wizard from "correcting" my changes.

Im not known for liking the Wizards in Mandriva.

Its best to seperate them from the GUI tools because they work entirely differently. (I'll explain)

On the whole a GUI tool configures a know application... or device .. say mounting/unmounting ...

whereas a Wizard tends to be task oriented... like "Share Internet connection"

 

Its not entirely obvious that the wizard just goes ahead and changes stuff and installs stuff you didn't expect and hence when its finished don't understand. Hence when Wizards don't work they often leave a mess ...that you have no idea how to fix. A GUI config tool in my definition just configures an app or device so you can tell which files its editing and if it goes wrong check those files... or use a different tool.

 

Because Mandriva makes such a big thing about the Wizards it tends to remove other GUI configuration tools from install groups so you have to install them manually.

 

When helmut complains about not having root access he probably needs to install some of these "optional tools" .... I was using Debian so I looked in synaptic the Deb package manager for gnome and disk ....after installing the minimalistic Gnome (about 80MB) and found the tools I needed to do this from the GUI.

Take note I did not have the MCC at all... nor any Debian equaivalent and deliberatly didn't use any KDE tools I had installed....

 

 

 

 

 

I really don't want to elaborate this or get in any argument, but let me you give a more specific example:

You are logged in as "username" on a Gnome desktop. You have added a drive or partition to your box in FAT32. You want to create a link to that drive or partition on your desktop. You have trouble using a Terminal, and you can not log into the desktop as root. But you can log in as "username" and open the MCC with the root password.

 

I had never even seen a gnome desktop until yesterday. I decided I would try to take a look at it, I was that bored, having to sit in this hotel with nothing to do for 119 hours. I installed it, though I doubt I installed everything that a regular gnome user would have, being unfamiliar with it.

Yep, I spent a little less time but :D I was pretty new to Gnome not having used it for more than 10 mins at a time since Gnome 1.. and Gnome2 is considerably less controllable (as a n00b to the desktop).

In my KDE desktop, there is a folder entitled "Devices", and any drive that I add just automagically shows up there. Having effectively 0 experience with gnome, I am not the guy to ask.

 

Well, here's the bottom line... and Im not trying to start a flame war on WM/DM's but I find Gnome is pretty unfriendly (edit: At a above basic level).. of course I have bags more experience with KDE but Gnome seems to by default want to control everything...and prevent you doing things ... I found nautilus was opening a new window on every directory for instance....and Im sure it can be changed but didn't bother BUT like I say it was the most minimal gnome possible so I missed a lot of config tools... but even then the workflow is more linear in gnome whereas in KDE its like you have more options to do things different ways???

(Really Im trying not to start a flamefest)

How can i say.... basic Gnome use is simple ... my dead cat could probably use it.... but there is a quantum step between that level and being a gnome guru.... its more down and dirty or nothing???

 

With KDE its more complex to start but progresses more linearly IMHO .. you have seemingly infinite ways to change things .. if you want you can make your screen and mouse cursor the same color and loose the mouse... but what I do find is configuring the middle stuff is easier in KDE... you don't need to make that big step to editing config files (or when you do its from the options of the application and invisible) ...

 

I think if you don't want to use the CLI at all then KDE is probably simpler.

I also think you tend to learn more earlier in KDE...because of the messing about in mid-level stuff?

 

Like I say, Im biassed because I have used KDE for a long time but still.... I'd consider using KDE over gnome for not needing a CLI...

Edited by Gowator
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