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Reclusive Linux founder opens up


Reiver_Fluffi
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Murda, unless you've used other distros like Arch or slack, I suggest you're a little out of depth here. Take as a prime example networking. Under mandriva you've got some fancy wizard that works if it feels like it. Underneath that is a pile of distro relevant scripts that work as a frontend to iwconfig, ifconfig and to an extent wpa_supplicant. They arent the most human friendly things. Other distros have their own scripts, which are designed to be human friendly, and are often just the simplest layer over the base tools, so that you know exactly what is going on.

 

I have used Arch, but not slack. Arch is just a Linux distro too, there are no elements in it that make it a "advanced user distro". I just keep coming back to Mandriva because of urpmi. No need to fight for 2hrs with my comp to just install a single rpm. And that's what computers are all about. It's not very productive to use an OS (in a big company for example) that requires 1hr of configuration every time you start any application for the first time. That's why we have wizards to do this for us. To get our software to run.

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So yeah, theoretically you can strip mandriva down and use the base tools, but in doing so, you're really gutting out the distro and implementing the features of others - you may as well not use it if that's how you decide to use it.

Well, you can strip it down but it will become non functional, when you deinstall the GUI tools for instance it gets rid of perl etc. etc. and as for removing YaST from Suse I don't think its even possible so I think its even more embedded than even that...

 

Anyway, Linus is free to use what he want's, its obvious that he cares not for messing with his distro, but more for having one that works, is stable, and up to date, so that he can continue his role as collaborator and developer unhindered. I don't really think any fuss or discussion should be put into it, he's human just like us and can choose what works best for him. Because it works best for him, is no indication that it will work best for our uses, so picking something entirely because Linus uses it, is plain idiocy, thus, it shouldnt really matter to us what he uses.

James

Actually I may try out FC now if linus can use it then ...?

 

And.. You mean GUI tools are only for noobies? Advanced/experienced users prefer only CLI then? IMHO GUI tools are there to make your life easier. If they don't have the answer you're looking for, you have to go to the CLI side. Distros like SuSE and Mandriva have great GUI tools and the user can do pretty much via GUI. I think that it's only a good thing. Like always in Linux world, you can choose not to install these tools on both of these distros and do all configuration old-school way.

 

No I mean GUI tools are limiting, in many cases a waste of time and hence most people who are experienced choose not to use them some of the time.

 

The point is that the underlying config scripts and tools evolve, add new options etc. etc. and a GUI tool is limited by the boxes it has for configuration OR it just pop's up a window and asks you to type the same stuff you would have typed anyway at the CLI...

 

The GUI tools are always behind the underyling CLI tools because the GUI tools use the underlying tools to run and they can't be developed until after the underlying tools exist! Moreover many options never actually get put into a GUI tool.....

 

I just keep coming back to Mandriva because of urpmi.

Right so presuming you don't like your packages deleted after install switch that off in the GUI!

Oh, wait you didn't realise you could use urpmi --noclean or edit the urpmi.conf file because mandriva doesn't do a GUI for those options.

 

No need to fight for 2hrs with my comp to just install a single rpm. And that's what computers are all about. It's not very productive to use an OS (in a big company for example) that requires 1hr of configuration every time you start any application for the first time. That's why we have wizards to do this for us. To get our software to run.

Erm this sounds horribly like a XP distributed system. The type that reinstall office everytime you try and open it.

 

If you used Debian than you would see a different way to do this.

Mandriva is wizard based, you choose the wizard and it selects the packages and sometimes it even gets it right.

If you use apt then control is passed to dpkg then debconf so that all your applications are theoretically configured after installing. If you upgrade you actually get to see the differences in the config files and get to choose if you install the package maintainers or keep your's etc.

 

All i can say is that configuration manually, is a helluva lot easier if you have an understanding of how it works, and are not scared of the manual. It's also a heap easier to debug if stuff doesnt work, and you dont have to put up with crap from GUI's that don't work as advertised.

 

Exactly, additionally you realise what options the GUI isn't giving you etc. and can then edit and tweak afterwards. Additionally you can quick start on GUI tools then edit by hand so long as the GUI tools don't go doing other stuff you are unaware of. Unfortunately that seems to be the case most of the time with the Mandriva wizards.

 

Reminds me of "Days of Thunder" with the Nascar racer who didn't understand how engines work and kept blowing them up....

 

which brings me back to "you can strip out the GUI parts if you want"

and no you cannot ....

In the car analogy its like buying a standard hatchback and then ripping out the engine to put ina new one... you suddenly find it won't fit the drive train so you need to swap that too, then the gear box and then ..... the whole thing is a chain reaction of dependant parts. Then you find the hood needs modding for the turbo intake and ... the brakes are insufficient and ....

 

Now this can all be fun but its not efficient... if you want efficient you go out and buy a performance car but in the real world a performance car costs hundreds of thousands of dollars but in the linux world a performing distro is free.

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  • 2 weeks later...
I just keep coming back to Mandriva because of urpmi. No need to fight for 2hrs with my comp to just install a single rpm. And that's what computers are all about. It's not very productive to use an OS (in a big company for example) that requires 1hr of configuration every time you start any application for the first time. That's why we have wizards to do this for us. To get our software to run.

 

my main complaint with mandrake is that urpmi often fails to find the software i want, and i have to google up and down to find the rpm, put it in my repository, then install it.

 

ubuntu, debian and arch have shown much better performance in this, although my current favourite is gentoo's portage system, which contains 100,000+ packages, even without overlays which i also use. Makes it much easier to experiment with new software.

 

but the point still is, to each his own :D

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... although my current favourite is gentoo's portage system, which contains 100,000+ packages, even without overlays which i also use.

Is that a typo ;)

 

100,000+ seems a bit high......

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