ral Posted February 15, 2003 Report Share Posted February 15, 2003 "http://www.theregister.co.uk/content/61/29330.html" "You get what you pay for"... clearly the $179 RedHat Professional (at 15% higher than XP Pro or 2K Pro OEM) is not worth what you get. The $39 version still is (so I don't feel that I was suckered out of the $25 I paid for it here) .. and even businesses may find it hard to shell out the $800 (basic service) for the RedHat Advance Server. Similarly a lot of the high end Mandrake products are less attractive than they used to be, but to its credit, 18 months is a big improvement over 12 months. $80 Windows XP Home Edition (OEM) - Patch support 5 years $140 Windows 2000 Pro and Windows XP Pro (OEM) - Patch support 5 years $700 Windows 2000 Server with a 5 client access license (OEM) - Patch support 5 years I hope that Mandrake and RedHat come up with products with 5 year support which will be priced competively with MS products. Companies do not UPGRADE THEIR SOFTWARE ON A YEARLY BASIS... the cost of doing so will make Open Source an expensive option. RedHat looks like it is content to servcie the high end Market only. Look like I will be moving back to Mandrake or over to SuSE or I might just install Windows 2000. Anyway, our Linux server/workstation project (tentatively named PenguinPC) is now dead for the moment. But since all the work is done and having spent hours talking to suppliers... the first "PenguinPC" to be offered for sale this March will be a Intel Pentium 4 2.4/256MB DDR 333 SDRAM, Intel 845G/Twin 40GB 7200RPM Hard Drives (RAID 0/1), Mobile hardrive racks, HighPoint RAID controller, Rounded IDE and Floppy cables, CD-ROM, 340 Watt PSU, Enlight casings and one year warranty onsite service support with a 24 hours response and resolution commitment (if we can't fix it in 24 hours will give you a replacement unit till we get yours fixed) will machine to be made available in Server or Workstation configuration for $900 (without a monitor, but with Keyboard/Mouse/Speakers for the workstation) will come bundles with Open Office, the GIMP, VNC and Windows 2000 Proc (XP at lcients option). I am ranting... but after all the Open Source advocvating I have been doing down here... I am going to look like a fool. People are going to say, see it was too cheap, you get what you pay for. Well, I am going to have to take the ribs...business is business so we must go on building the PC's for resale. Anyway... hope SuSE can help or Mandake comes up with a version with at least 3 years support for $80. Well OpenOffice will save us tons of money... will still use Linux for myself... but for the business part... hello Mr. Gates, I'm back (writing this after just having purchased a copy of Windows XP for the shop and ordered two more copies... the clients seem to like it better than 2K). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Counterspy Posted February 15, 2003 Report Share Posted February 15, 2003 You apparently haven't seen that Mandrake has adopted the Redhat practice as well. So much for Mandrake end-of-life. Counterspy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pzatch Posted February 15, 2003 Report Share Posted February 15, 2003 Ral please don't cut and paste posts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ral Posted February 15, 2003 Author Report Share Posted February 15, 2003 Pzatch: Sorry, but I frequent two fourms which do not have too many common members. Counterspy: Well, but they will give 6 months more support for security and the like. And six months is a world of difference where Linux dirvers for the more exotic hardware can take 9-12 months to show up. Got a response from SuSE in Germany. They have no local distributor... Looks like I am stuck with a pair of distro's with limited support. Importing, SuSE from somewhere else in Asia... maybe its not time yet to push this here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aRTee Posted February 17, 2003 Report Share Posted February 17, 2003 Ral, I don't see the problem. Please read the talkbacks / comments here, and make up your mind: http://linuxtoday.com/news_story.php3?ltsn...003-26-OP-MD-RH The point is, with RH or MDK, if you want, you can have support; if need be, from an entirely different company. There is no customer lock in, as with MSWin. There is no dependence on one single company, as with MSWin. There is competition between support service providers, keeping costs down and quality up. Upgrades are free, and frankly, changing between Mdk 8.1 to 8.1 to 9.0 doesn't really change that much, especially as a server (of course the looks of KDE and Gnome have drastically improved). Also, you state: I hope that Mandrake and RedHat come up with products with 5 year support which will be priced competively with MS products. Companies do not UPGRADE THEIR SOFTWARE ON A YEARLY BASIS... the cost of doing so will make Open Source an expensive option. Is that so? I don't believe you. You see, that is only true if the upgrade process is expensive in terms of software (which is the case for MSWin, or other OS-es), if you break compatibility (which is the case for most MSWin versions) and if it's complicated. With upgrades over the network, without having to click 'I accept' for every stupid license etcetc things are much different with OSS, in this case RH and MDK. Support issues are completely different on OSS than on proprietary software, since in the latter case you depend on one sole company, without which you are nowhere. With OSS, you can buy support from any company. So put your money where your mouth is (I'm not talking to Ral, just to anyone who wants support on OSS products), and spend money on support. $80 Windows XP Home Edition (OEM) - Patch support 5 years$140 Windows 2000 Pro and Windows XP Pro (OEM) - Patch support 5 years $700 Windows 2000 Server with a 5 client access license (OEM) - Patch support 5 years I agree that this looks like a much better deal, but don't forget, this is just the OS, in the case of Mdk and RH you're talking all the software, which is much more often what is patched (need I say IE, LookOut etc), and Mdk and RH pack so much more of that. So apples and pears. Also, since all Win versions are proprietary, MS is obliged to support older versions, they can hardly say: upgrade your OS all the time and charge for it... although they try. I am ranting... but after all the Open Source advocvating I have been doing down here... I am going to look like a fool. People are going to say, see it was too cheap, you get what you pay for. How much is your freedom worth to you? OSS is not good because it is cheap, that's just a side effect; it is good because it makes you free. Well, but they will give 6 months more support for security and the like. And six months is a world of difference where Linux dirvers for the more exotic hardware can take 9-12 months to show up. Sorry, you assemble your own boxes, you make sure you buy stuff of which there are drivers. I don't get this point. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pzatch Posted February 17, 2003 Report Share Posted February 17, 2003 Ral Sorry, same here Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ral Posted February 17, 2003 Author Report Share Posted February 17, 2003 Well, I guess we are coming from different places. Linux is getting fairly well entrenched in the US and some parts of Europe. Other countires are looking at it and making a commitment to it. But it is still a Windows world. One day I hope that hardware makers support Linux at a parity level that they do with Windows. That is still not the case. IBM and HP do the job of getting Linux working on their boxes. People like us, well we get stuff of the shelf that we can get at a good price. The current EOL, makes it harder for us to market it. Its not like there is a great demand for it here right now. Some posted here about enabling DMA in Mandrake 9, others are having problems with other parts of their hardware. It will be a nightmare for us to have to keep updating ourselves everytime a new version is released. We support our PC's for three years, now if we pushed through with it full upgrades would have to be included as part of our support. Anyway, look like SuSE may be able to help, though they have no distributor here yet, and who knows they may announce an EOL too. But so far they seem like a nice group of people to deal with. The other option we are looking at is getting someone to update RH8 for us after EOL, for a fair price of course. As for the distributions including a lot of apps, for the desktops they will ship with a lot of OpenSource software even if they run on Windows. But I should apologize. I am just frustrated. I had to push my partners to agree to do this... and now, it looks like its going to be too much trouble. Especially for a startup like ours. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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