Jump to content

Mandriva is still free


lavaeolus
 Share

Recommended Posts

Since it seems that some people did not have read my original post:

 

I was talking about wether mandriva (as a company) has betrayed it's roots as a Free Software vendor or not, I never talked about wether it was a good or bad idea (idiotic idea in my opinion, at least they could have packed 6.8.2 as fallback) to integrate a cvs-x.org (this is the topic of another thread).

 

The problem with older nvidia-cards not supported by newer nvidia-drivers just shows the problem of closed-source vs open-source-drivers

 

My notebook is a nice example for this, it has a Radeon Mobility M6 which is NOT supported by the closed-source-ati-driver (which is sometimes alpha-stage at best), but works fine with the oh-so-unstable-x.org-6.9.1-cvs

 

I have four systems currently working with this x.org, three ati and one old s3, I had no problems so far

 

btw I never mentioned the boxed products, I talked about the Free versions, so no official support and nothing to pay for

 

did I talk chinese in my original post ??? :D

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Replies 45
  • Created
  • Last Reply

Top Posters In This Topic

did I talk chinese in my original post ???  :D

 

No, the conversation evolved from your initial post, which apparently, up until now, you have condoned by answering those posts and waiting until to make a point that we have strayed off. In fact, nobody really said that mandriva wasn't free (although you did fail to define free, often subject to differences in interpretation), but given that they are a company (like SuSE, Redhat, et al) they would much rather you gave them some money for their efforts. So okay, not everyone is affected by the bugs, but there are a few that are. The fact is that by using a CVS (and come on, lets not stray off this point just because it works for you) for X, well its not a very headstrong decision. How many total linux n00bs do you think are going to be thrown off by this? Mandriva doesn't care, or at least they are not demonstrating that they do. The bowed down to pressures from club members to get their backside in gear, and from Intel to support their new graphics chips (using the CVS, which isn't an issue for powerpack users as they are given commercial drivers, see how we get a happy medium here that does not include the effect on the free user). Unfortunately the "free" user doesn't rank against actual customers and suppliers, its a fact of business that we can't escape, unfortunately.

 

Yes I agree developers need to live, i'm all for that and once my Mandriva club subs finish, I will be donating to a non-commercialised distro as they deserve the money, not the fat cat bureaucratic Linux companies, they are in no way dynamic, everyone has the same story, whether its Mandriva, SuSE, Redhat, etc!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Hey, we all know the rules of this forum, so I don't think that it is necessary to remind you that staying on topic is one of these rules !

 

I think it was clear what type of freedom I was talking about (freedom of choice not free of charge), nobody of the other posters seems to have problems understanding this

 

you just began your cvs-x.org-crusade and I just told you that there is a more apropriate place for this

 

I'm not the only one, who has no problems with the cvs-x.org, I would not gain anything by using the powerpack, since my card is NOT ! supported by the commercial ati-driver

 

btw. some other linux distros have used the cvs-x.org, too

 

and what about the users that have an intel-chipset that is only supported by the cvs-x.org ?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Hey, we all know the rules of this forum, so I don't think that it is necessary to remind you that staying on topic is one of these rules !

 

Yes, in so much as is possible, but I picked out a point in your first point I didn't agree with and a discussion evolved from that, can't see how it's off-topic?

 

I think it was clear what type of freedom I was talking about (freedom of choice not free of charge), nobody of the other posters seems to have problems understanding this

 

Apologies, I overlooked that one (might have been useful to look back at the original post :o )

 

you just began your cvs-x.org-crusade and I just told you that there is a more apropriate place for this

 

I can't see how its a crusade my friend, like I said before, I picked out a point that I didn't agree with and we discussed it. Although it looks like it has run its course now, and now we are bogged down in discussions of its relevance. Sometimes this is just they way things are.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Ok, so I think it was just a bit of a misunderstanding, since I thought you were referring to my original post

 

I clearly agree that it was an idiotic idea to include a cvs-x.org, at least not without a stable-one as backup (using x.org 6.8.2 as standard, 6.9.1-cvs on the appropriate intel-chipsets, and give everyone who wants to bloody his nose the choice to use 6.9.1-cvs if he wants, would have been a good idea)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Isn't Mandriva packed with drivers that works for old and one which work for new cards?

 

The x.org 6.9.1 that is in mandriva 2006 seems to have some severe stability problems, but afaik it was included to get the centrino-certification, because some newer intel-chipsets are supported only by this version, and since it is from cvs there where some complaints about this

 

I had no problems so far, so I can't comment on what sort of problems there are

Edited by lavaeolus
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Isn't Mandriva packed with drivers that works for old and one which work for new cards?

 

AI, i'm not sure if this is right, but I have a hunch you are thinking of the commercial drivers on the box/club releases, I believe they do, but as far as I know only one driver for each on free!

Edited by Reiver_Fluffi
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Isn't Mandriva packed with drivers that works for old and one which work for new cards?

 

AI, i'm not sure if this is right, but I have a hunch you are thinking of the commercial drivers on the box/club releases, I believe they do, but as far as I know only one driver for each on free!

 

 

Perhaps the important question is why it is so confusing!

btw if you use a distro called 'limited edition' wouldn'ty you expect it to be limited :cheeky:

oops...

 

I find the whole intergration of closed source drivers in Mandrake very dishonest.

They infer it is because they cannot include them legally but what they mean is they don't want to.

If they don't want to they should say so!

 

It seems to be a French company trait. My archos MM battery needded replacing so I emailed asking if they could sell me another battery... they answered saying they wanted to know when and where I bought it. (completely irrelevant I wanted to BUY) ...

 

the whole discusion went on me saying it was none of their business where I bought it would they sell me a battery or not. Instead of refuse and say they want you to buy a new device they came up with lie after lie ... like they are not allowed to send it through the post. (BS since they send other batteries through the post) and offered to replace it insitu with a new battery and ship it back.

 

This is like mandrake they lie about the reasons for not including the closed source drivers. If they could just work out a business model and be honest it would go a long way.

 

Not all biggies suffer this cancer. Suse is inflicted with YAST the only worse linux program than MCC. RedHat has its problems but they are actually all different.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I find the whole intergration of closed source drivers in Mandrake very dishonest. 

They infer it is because they cannot include them legally but what they mean is they don't want to. 

If they don't want to they should say so! 

 

I tend to agree, other distributions make the drivers available. Also, you got me thinking on this one, so I looked at NVidia's license agreement:

 

2. GRANT OF LICENSE

 

2.1 Rights and Limitations of Grant. NVIDIA hereby grants Customer the following non-exclusive, non-transferable right to use the SOFTWARE, with the following limitations:

 

2.1.1 Rights. Customer may install and use one copy of the SOFTWARE on a single computer, and except for making one back-up copy of the Software, may not otherwise copy the SOFTWARE. This LICENSE of SOFTWARE may not be shared or used concurrently on different computers.

 

2.1.2 Linux/FreeBSD Exception. Notwithstanding the foregoing terms of Section 2.1.1, SOFTWARE designed exclusively for use on the Linux or FreeBSD operating systems, or other operating systems derived from the source code to these operating systems, may be copied and redistributed, provided that the binary files thereof are not modified in any way (except for unzipping of compressed files).

 

2.1.3 Limitations.

 

No Reverse Engineering. Customer may not reverse engineer, decompile, or disassemble the SOFTWARE, nor attempt in any other manner to obtain the source code.

 

No Separation of Components. The SOFTWARE is licensed as a single product. Its component parts may not be separated for use on more than one computer, nor otherwise used separately from the other parts.

 

No Rental. Customer may not rent or lease the SOFTWARE to someone else.

 

http://www.nvidia.com/object/nv_swlicense.html

 

The license clearly states that you are free to redistribute Linux drivers provided you do not alter the binary driver! It also states that you cannot rent the driver out, under the club membership they are effectively doing that (well in some way).

Edited by Reiver_Fluffi
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Isn't Mandriva packed with drivers that works for old and one which work for new cards?

 

The x.org 6.9.1 that is in mandriva 2006 seems to have some severe stability problems, but afaik it was included to get the centrino-certification, because some newer intel-chipsets are supported only by this version, and since it is from cvs there where some complaints about this

 

I had no problems so far, so I can't comment on what sort of problems there are

 

Seems to?!? I think we need to have a poll to find out exactly who has/hasn't problems with this xorg cvs. We could then clear up how serious/severe the problem is/isn't :P

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Seems to?!?  I think we need to have a poll to find out exactly who has/hasn't problems with this xorg cvs.  We could then clear up how serious/severe the problem is/isn't

 

I think there is already a poll, and that was what I tried to explain some people before, that this already existing poll is a better place for discussing x.org-problems

 

Before there begins another argument:

 

the x.org issue does not only affect nvidia and ati cards but also other cards, so please don't reduce it just to an ati/nvidia open-source vs. closed-source issue

 

it is a general quality problem but not one related to open vs. closed source

 

btw yast is open source now

Edited by lavaeolus
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I wouldn't dream of saying it only affects NVidia/ATI. I too have Intel cards, and find I have more problems with them over NVidia/ATI. But then, this also isn't just related to 2006, but also occurs with Xorg 6.8.2 under Gentoo.

 

I think there was posts about the problems, but never a poll to actually register your vote as a count as a number, rather than a post saying you have/haven't problems.

 

I'll set one up, and we can see where the numbers lie. Once we know how many, we can then figure out a way to try and overcome the issues.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Loading...
 Share

×
×
  • Create New...