solarian Posted April 19, 2006 Report Share Posted April 19, 2006 (edited) I suggest you give it a try at least, it's a very good distro for laptops, and they have an english part of the forums, besides you can always ask for answers here, many of us have used Kanotix one time or another. Edited April 19, 2006 by solarian Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gowator Posted April 19, 2006 Report Share Posted April 19, 2006 Gotta agree with Solarian, the English part of the forums is good and the IRC #kanotix channel even better. Most of the germans reply in English if you ask the question in English and it really is very good on laptops... kano only uses laptops andthe wifi etc. works great. Also you can test it all live and see.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
arctic Posted April 19, 2006 Report Share Posted April 19, 2006 I have to agree that Kanotix is perhaps a better solution on a lappy with 256 MB Ram than Fedora. Fedora is very nice on desktop machines or non-critical servers but a bit "heavy" for lappies imho. I have fedora on one lappy and Mandriva on the other and the Mandriva one is way faster, although both have a 1 GHz processor and 256 MB Ram. It was also faster with Kanotix when I used it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scarecrow Posted April 19, 2006 Report Share Posted April 19, 2006 Being an Arch Linux diehard (which works briliantly on my laptop, BUT it really needed some work, including rolling a custom kernel), I can concur that Kanotix is THE distro for laptops, simply because almost everything works right out of the box, and whatever doesn't work is fixable by simple means, or it will simply not work under any Linux distro... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Artificial Intelligence Posted April 19, 2006 Report Share Posted April 19, 2006 And I agree wirh arctic, Ubuntu contributes nothing to Debian and takes everything. It would be nothing without its Debian base but develops deliberatly incompatible packages so its not even a symbiotic relationship but 100% parasitic. I guess it will kill off Debian before moving onto another host like FC .. and then kill that.. Ubuntu is damaging linux far more than Microsoft ever could .... Ubuntu developers should be ashamed to be a part of this. Three letters: F.U.D. The rumor is based from a few words stated from two or three Debian developer ages ago, go and ask the same people today. If you don't believe me take CC meeting and ask Mark themselves. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gowator Posted April 19, 2006 Report Share Posted April 19, 2006 Then simply name me 100 packages Ubuntu has contributed to Debian, since Debian has contributed 9000+ to Ubuntu. Has Ubuntu even contributed a single Debian compatible package because I haven't seen them. Heck even Linspire has done Debs for Ltunes and Nvu but what has Ubuntu put back... knoppix, linspire and Corel linux all made packages they contributed to the Debian tree .. where are the Ubuntu ones.. indeed Ubuntu takes great care that they are incompatible with Debian let alone actually contributing, Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Artificial Intelligence Posted April 19, 2006 Report Share Posted April 19, 2006 (edited) You misunderstand me with purpose or I've been to poor to explain it correctly. All the tweaks, bugs found, fixes gets back to Debian, then the Debian takes what they want to use and add it to Debian. Edited April 19, 2006 by Artificial Intelligence Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FX Posted April 19, 2006 Report Share Posted April 19, 2006 ummm............What about Mandrake leaching off of Redhat in the beginning???? Wanna know what is really gonna kill Linux is the 100 different directions its goes. Face it, you have to really love your computer to learn linux. As in another thread. "Is linux right for my mom". Every response in that thread just shows that Linux is not ready for the desktop user yet. But back on subject, liked stated earlier, Mandrake leached the rpm system from Redhat in the beginning. How many other distros since then have leached the rpm package? I think there are just sore ego's maybe over at the Debian camp about the popularity of Ubuntu. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
solarian Posted April 19, 2006 Report Share Posted April 19, 2006 (edited) Wanna know what is really gonna kill Linux is the 100 different directions its goes. Of course it won't kill it! There are ones that I can boot from a floppy, live cd's, ones for server, others for workstation, diagnostics, security, etc! No one thing could do this all. That's a strenght, not a weakness. And if some refuse to use Linux just because there is no easy, one choice, then worse for them. There is no need that all the users in the world use Linux. It's ready for the desktop - for me, for others I don't care. Edited April 19, 2006 by solarian Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
arctic Posted April 19, 2006 Report Share Posted April 19, 2006 The very fact that we run Linux on desktops and that e.g. HP ships Mandriva laptops is more than enough proof that Linux is desktop ready. But not every desktop-user is ready for Linux. :D IMHO, the Ubuntu camp refuses to accept that Ubuntu is a Debian-fork, as that would rub off some of the "glam" that surrounds Ubuntu. I read many posts on other forums where users proudly said that they are geeky, 'cause they run Debian... and it was Ubuntu that they actually ran. Oooops! :P I read the link, AI provided and still my opinion is the same. Ubuntu is a Debian fork. If this were not the case, then it would be backwards compatible. But it is not, thus it's a fork. If I'd say "Ubuntu is not a fork", then I'd have to say that Yoper is basically LFS, but no!, it is based on LFS and has many special things included that you will never see in LFS, thus it is some kinda fork, too. I doubt that many bugfixes from Ubuntu will make it into Debian as the Ubuntu packages are partially very different (altered code) from the original Debian packages. You cannot simply apply "any" Ubuntu patches to Debian, as it will break Debian packages. Just my opinion of course. ;) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bvc Posted April 20, 2006 Report Share Posted April 20, 2006 The very fact that we run Linux on desktops and that e.g. HP ships Mandriva laptops is more than enough proof that Linux is desktop ready. But not every desktop-user is ready for Linux. :D A statement like that just helps prove it is not desktop ready. Gonna have to come up with something more than that, but....that'd be oftopic, wouldn't it? ...just like the statement itself? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turb0flat4 Posted April 20, 2006 Report Share Posted April 20, 2006 The reason I went away from Ubuntu (I used the original one with GNOME) was that I just couldn't reconcile myself with the sudo way of doing things - essentially one is logged in as root all the time. Can't beat the free CDs (free shipping here to Singapore too) offer though. I have a lot of pretty CDs in pretty envelopes sitting around, waiting for me to hand them out to people. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gowator Posted April 20, 2006 Report Share Posted April 20, 2006 A statement like that just helps prove it is not desktop ready. Gonna have to come up with something more than that, but....that'd be oftopic, wouldn't it? ...just like the statement itself? Not really, the fact is some windows users are unable to switch to OS-X... many windows users are unable to switch to notes from outlook or Office 2003 from Office 2000 without retraining.... This doesn't mean that these producys are somehow not ready (well excepting outlook but that is being migrated from) ... the users simply will not change... My GF's father won't use OpenOffice because it uses Java and Java is what makes those silly pop-up windows in browsers... he has no idea what Java is only that is is something to do with annoying popups... The point is linux is more than ready of the desktop but some people just don't want it. the same can be said of firefox ... it struggles to render some sites made with MS web tools so there must be something wrong with it and those tabs are just downright stupid... and it interferes with the pop-up blocker I installed for IE... and .... Once IE has those features too they will be canb't live without but for many users IE is the standard and Opera, Firefox etal all get it wrong. I doubt that many bugfixes from Ubuntu will make it into Debian as the Ubuntu packages are partially very different (altered code) from the original Debian packages. You cannot simply apply "any" Ubuntu patches to Debian, as it will break Debian packages. Just my opinion of course. This is the whole point... its like saying you help the birds in the winter by putting out nuts in a sealed metal container with a combination lock. The fact remains that Ubuntu is a fork not a arch and not a Debian ++ The source is not compatible with Debian so the bug fixes are largely irrelevant ... Mandrake and RH were similar but not the same... Mandrake started as RH with KDE and i586 compiled packages but mainly follwed RH and the RH packages were usable .. it wasn't until RH7.0 and Mandrake 8.0 that they diverged irretrivably over the glibc version compatibility and this was RH's fault for making a faulty product .... Mandrake gained and then became more popular Ubuntu set out to make itself source incompatible with Debian... it wasn't accidental Corel, Xandros and Linspire et al all used Debian as a base and were able to use the same repo's but Ubuntu set out to be incompatible from day 1. It used a dishonest excuse of usability which is just FUD... there is nothing stopping them using Debian and adding tools/installer like Corel and Xandros .. and they set out to create a fundamentally flawed distro... the sudo policy is like a cancer that has been integrated so deeply it can't be cut out. It infects everything it touches and all of this to prevent a user having to type a different password ... BUT it is all a lie! There is no reason (except common sense) not to have the same password for root and a user... this achieves the same things which is the dialog box pops up and you type your password ... DUH ... but Ubuntu likes to pretend it has implemented all its edited cancer to prevent the user having to remember a config password which is justy plain unture, they do it to prevent Debian using thier repositories or using their bug fixes. I guess their could be a more sinister reason for installing a backdoor on a user's system as well. Lets face it Ubuntu users are usually pretty dumb about security else they wouldn't use Ubuntu! But mostly just check out anty attempt to discuss the sudo policy on Ubuntu forums. the mods look for any excuse to lock the thread and encourage others to diss anyone questioning the sudo policy and then use this to lock the thread. Why ??? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scarecrow Posted April 20, 2006 Report Share Posted April 20, 2006 To be honest, I don't dislike Ubuntu the way Gowator does... but I surely prefer Kanotix/Sid over it. At least being a Kanotix user gives you a great chance to improve your German knowledge (although it's not strictly needed...), while being an Ubuntu user does not give you any chances to improve anything at all! :P Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gowator Posted April 20, 2006 Report Share Posted April 20, 2006 To be honest, I don't dislike Ubuntu the way Gowator does... but I surely prefer Kanotix/Sid over it. At least being a Kanotix user gives you a great chance to improve your German knowledge (although it's not strictly needed...), while being an Ubuntu user does not give you any chances to improve anything at all! :P If you take the scripts made for kanotix OR knoppix they all work with SID... For instance the networking wizard ... you can just add the kanotix sources and add anything through apt. The same is not true from Ubuntu... One of the best pieces of 'Ubuntu' SW was automatix (though for some reason arnieboy got a lot of flak over it for setting the root password) and I would love the same in Debian but it can't be backported because of the way ubuntu is set-up, it even needs different scripts for the kubuntu and ubuntu because of the sudo stuff I suppose...??? Kanotix imparticular goes to a LOT of effort to be Debian compatible, as bvc once said.. why not just do a debian net-install .. because after install it amounts to the same thing. This is the fundamental difference between a fork and a custom version... If you read Cathedral and Bazzar by Eric S. Raymond you will see a discussion on forks way pre-dating Ubuntu and why forks are bad and kill projects. I feel this is as true today as it was then. A fork is only justified when the project is blocked or cannot add functionality because of the underlying design or license issues etc. ... and this can be said of XFree/Xorg (license) or Gimp/Cinepaint (8 bit palette) Hence cinepaint wanted to do 32 bit color space and GiMP was not a photo retouching prog and aquequate for its intended use. As knoppix shows there is no need to reengineer Debian to make it easier to use.you can just add to it.. which is the primary excuse so a fork was not justified ... even if incompatibilites do develop then the aim should be to squash them ASAP... The problem with a fork is it means if a problem is solved in Ubuntu applying it to Debian is not easily possible because of the huge differences in codebase ... again a little is excusable but Ubuntu seem to be making no effort at trying to reduce the inconsistencies and indeed the difference is getting bigger each release. Yes ubuntu is tremendously successful in terms of users but I don't think its true to say it is putting back ... certainly not in line with the numers of developers it has. The same can be said of Ubuntu releases in that developer seem more set on producing the next version which is a defacto "the current version than backporting to the last stable version and the same goes for the forum .. There seems to be an elitism developed whereby the developers regard the stable versions as passe and not worth bug fixes .. this is the primary reason I gave up on Ubuntu because I was faced with an upgrade to a new development version after a few months on Dapper and posts regarding bugs were largely ignored for the stable versions and I could see me being in the same boat in a few months time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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