Must be burnout...

[Steve Scrimpshire]

I dunno if it's just burnout on my part or not, but I come here quite alot to help people and things are really starting to bug me. I've been using Linux for something like 3 years (since 8.1) and Linux exclusively for almost a year and a half.

I can only speak for myself, but I will use the term 'we' editorially...

We come here to help people and I would say that half the time we get no appreciation whatsoever....the user with the problem just stops posting in the thread. Did we help? Did we scare you off? I'd say that another 15% of the time, we have some user yell at us, make smartass comments to us....even if we helped. No matter how 'appreciative' you are later, because of our hard work, all we really hear is the smart ass comment.

Then there's the "why can't this be easy like Windows?" "I've never had to do that in Windows." people. This is Linux...totally different OS....gotta stop thinking like a Windows user. It's ok to say something like "I know the card works, because I dual boot and it works in Windows."

I'm not begging for appreciation myself...I've had some people that made my day sometimes and I can live with the little appreciation I feel that I have gotten...I'm thinking of the community as a whole, too. If more people burnout like I'm doing...where will the gurus be?

Here's another peeve. I happen to be one of the best 'newbie language' translators out there, but I tend not to start off with 'newbie', because people think I'm talking down to them and respond with "You think I'm f***ing stupid???" So, I wait for them to ask for clarification.

And this obsession with "Why can't you tell me the GUI way first?" gets on my nerves, too. I can help you, but I don't use Gnome....never have...don't like it. I don't know where to find stuff in Gnome, but I know there's a little TV-looking icon in the taskbar that opens a console and I know what to do with that. Would you rather I ignore your question and wait till a Gnome user can answer it?

 

I dunno, maybe I sound like an elitist Linux user...but this ain't Windows...it's a good OS because it's not Windows. Why do you want to make it like Windows? I mean....why buy a Ferrari and put Volkswagen shocks, steering, tires and engine in it? Just use a Volkswagen....

 

Just had to get this out...I'm sure there's more pent up in here.

 

"It's better to burn out than fade away..."

Steve (AKA Omar Serenity...Ohms...."not very user-friendly")

Edited March 1, 2005 by Steve Scrimpshire

[Gowator]

That rings many bells Steve....

The problem as we know id the noobies or newbies ... don't actually realise we have different windows managers, or even what a WM or DM is.

 

Those who weant to use linux witrhout the CLI would IMHO be better sticking with Windows or moving to Mac.

 

Neither do I see why i would want to wsate my time trying to do something in a GUI that I can achieve in 3 lines of CLI ..

 

I have a friend who is IT manager of a large co and documented a whole load of procedures ... a 250 page document for how to set up a IIS server from scratch (bare machine) is 2 pages in linux... because its clear, concise and uses a CLI ...

you can add wget's etc. and say type this on a clean install using this install config and it will all work...

 

I no longer answer questions from noobies who use the internet wizards because I have no intention of wrecking my machine (or installing MDK) at the moment to reproduce the problem... if you use the wizards and they work fine... if not don't cry to me! No amount of pleading : my internet connections sharing doesn't work... will entice me to get embrioled in helping someone who has used the wizards. If they don't work then reinstall or try another distro because I really can't be bothered if they don't want to use real linux tools and want to turn linux into windows.

 

 

Why does this piss me off....

Because mandrake have already screwed the distro for me...my favotrite distro is now half Windowsified... they worry more about how the installer looks than what it does... and more about providing GUI tools than the effect when they go wrong.

 

Behind this is a very nice (my favorite) distro... but its dissaparing under the moaning I want a GUI way to do this people.

Windows is full of GUI tools that half work....

[devries]

There is more to posting on this board then getting appreciation for answering a question. I like to see the board grow, I enjoy answering questions and solving puzzles, I learn more about Linux because I have only one PC and get only so much problems (all solved here months ago :) ), I like the off topic forums etcetc.

 

Appreciation is only a small part of why I come here.

[Steve Scrimpshire]

Appreciation is only a small part of why I come here.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Wait a couple more years when you realize there's not much appreciation.

[theYinYeti]

(Funny this last quote (quotes again :) ), which makes me think of the Highlander movie, in which the Kurgan says (roughly translated: ) "It's better to die than disappear"; somehow, this marked my mind... Is your quote in reference to the movie?)

 

Well... I understand how you feel. I felt like this some time ago on another forum (LQ.org), which is far less "friendly" than this one. I agree with all you say. All I can say is I understand, and feel a little sad for "we" (including you, me, ...).

 

I thought about all this, and came to the following conclusion. I always try and give the best answer I can, and honnestly state if I come to the limits of my knowledge. I usually assume a minimum knowledge, but often indicate that the user can ask if anything is out of their knowledge.

You're right in that we rarely get any appreciation. Yet we do sometimes, and for the other times, I think the users have other problems to deal with, and the best is to help again.

Because the day those users will have all their problems dealt with, and they'll have seen how helpfull the community can be, my hope is that they will also decide to enter the community for real, and help, and share their knowledge, and maybe even share some code.

 

Helping people is my way of helping Freedom and sharing in the long run. Almost every week on LQ or here, I see a General thread saying "Time to say thank you", or "Now you can ask me anything :)" or something like that. One day, people do realize all that the Linux community has done for them. Of that, I'm glad.

 

Rest a little, work for yourself for a change, and come back to us, stronger than ever!

 

Yves.

[Steve Scrimpshire]

"It's better to burn out than fade away..."

It's actually a line from a Def Leppard song...older than the Highlander movie, I think. :D

 

Anyway...I've been coming here for a long time since my burnout began...so it's taken alot for me to get to this point. I'm just releasing some steam...hope I don't start a flamewar. If so, lock it down, delete it...whatever.

 

I guess it especially gets to me since I've been doing computer service and repair and seeing all the hopeless Windows people and all the unmaintained computers....and wonder how people can come here and complain about how 'difficult' Linux is. I mean people actually come to me with 10 or 15 trojans on an otherwise perfectly working system and want to trash the hardware because of it.

[daniewicz]

"It's better to burn out than fade away..."

 

I thought this was Neil Young in the mid 1980's ??? From the song rust never sleeps.

 

Steve:

 

I am new to this forum and it has been very helpful for me as I learn the linux way. In my short time here I have learned whose responses I should pay attention to and whose responses I can ignore. I consider you one of the gurus of this forum, and I have learned much just following your posts as you try to help others.

 

Now regarding your affilation with the Michigan Wolverines, that is another matter.

[Steve Scrimpshire]

Actually, you got me there....they stole the line from him. (Not a big Neil Young fan.)

Go Wolverines!

Gotta admit watching them pull that squeaker out against Alabama a few years ago was pretty awesome....but I digress.

 

Heh...I'm by far no guru. I just know which questions to answer and which questions to keep my mouth shut about (ok, maybe not so good about keeping my mouth shut...but anyway). And most of my 'pearls of wisdom' are just stolen from an answer I read before...... :D

[Gowator]

Heh...I'm by far no guru. I just know which questions to answer and which questions to keep my mouth shut about (ok, maybe not so good about keeping my mouth shut...but anyway). And most of my 'pearls of wisdom' are just stolen from an answer I read before...... :D

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Actually thats the point....

When something is done by the CLi it stays fundamentally the same. Perhaps a few options added or changed but its easy to help translate a pre-existing answer.

When its done through an ever changing GUI its not... its not even the same menu item between versions (even if its doing the same thing)

 

Secondly its a pain taking screenshots or verbose descriptions 'use the 3rd button from the left'... etc. when the same could be achieved in one line of CLI. Everything you learn on the CLi us used again and again... everything you learn in the GUI is likely to be different next version and not even exist in another distro.

 

9/10 times its easier to get a new user to do a lspci -v or lsmod etc. to determine what's wrong and often after 10 pages of discussing something like the 3com ethernet card that turned out to be a broadcom one all it takes is for the noobie to just type one line that you tell them and post the results!

[inflexion]

i do agree with the comments you have all made thats why i like to tell all you lot that have/will help me out that i appriciate you help.

 

I have had the same thing with Windows, helping people and nothing so much as a "thanks its working now" or a "no that still dont work" I think that some people are too proud to say thank you's

 

Rest assured as long as newbies like me remain here, thanks for help will eb given as we are the ones that really do want to learn for our selfs rather than getting someone else to do it

[reb2]

well i too can sympathize with steve here.

 

the general public (in general) are an ungrateful lot, as my experiences with m$ windows users has proven to me (i no longer work with the public thank gawd lol).

 

Steve, have your rant by all means, as far as i'm concerned, you've earned it.

 

i first came in to this forum as a complete linux numbskull, i knew nothing.

and thanks to a lot of reading, and occasional posting i have learned a fair amount.

i can now install and configure my machines for my use (mostly by the gui (sorry gowater)).

however, recently i have discovered the use of the cli and i am now begining to learn (lord help me on this learning curve lol).

at least i have a working linux system, that suits my needs and whats more, i like it.

i think the last time i booted into m$ windows was about a month ago!!

linux is gradually taking over my computing world and i have you guy's and gals to thank for that!

 

so have your rants all you linux guru's, i'll forgive ya that!

just please don't leave us noobs all alone we do need you!!

 

perhaps that's a good idea, a thread for pissed off guru's to rant and vent their frustrations!

then make it compulsory for all members to read it BEFORE being able to post questions ?

 

it may make them think a little bit about how their feedback makes the whole mandrakeusers experience a better thing all round, for noobies and guru's alike!!

 

and Steve, Flamewar! roflmao all you've got so far is support and agreement

and deservedly so.

regards

reb

Edited March 4, 2005 by reb2

[bvc]

Ah the post I've written 10 times and never posted. :bvc: my hat's off to ya (k...well it's not in the gif but just pretend, ok?) Know this, all the world is a stage and you have played your part!

 

If you get the fire back, great! If not, don't feel bad...people move on. I say that because that's what happened to me. Everyday I see threads, I open them, but I can't read them. I can't concentrate on the problem. Yesterday, I told someone to issue the command;

root

in order to su to root

 

Burn out? That's what I call it, but that can be considered a good thing cos, look at all the people you have helped!

Here's to ya

Edited March 4, 2005 by bvc

[iphitus]

Another thing that would help.

 

Consistency. Go look at threads with newbies looking for help, theres often multiple different and sometimes incorrect responses to the problem.

[bvc]

True, but a few can't do the work of a community. When I was first burned out, in an attempt to chill, I'd watch for days as this would happen and I'd finally show up and lead in the right direction. Now, before anyone flames me, remember I've said that it's good to see others step up to the plate and help people. For me, I had to accept that I can't help ten people a day anymore, and walk away. Which is not hard when you can't even read the problem :lol: But at first it was extremely hard because I had always been there previously and some how felt responsible or guilty if I didn't help. That's why I say to Steve...do what's best for you, you've done so much already...do for yourself now -IF need be!

Edited March 4, 2005 by bvc

[Steve Scrimpshire]

Yesterday, I told someone to issue the command;

root

in order to su to root

 

Burn out? That's what I call it, but that can be considered a good thing cos, look at all the people you have helped!

Here's to ya

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Heh....i saw that. I was like 'huh?' (Even tried it myself in case it was some obscure alias to 'su' i didn't know about.)

 

 

Another thing that would help.

 

Consistency. Go look at threads with newbies looking for help, theres often multiple different and sometimes incorrect responses to the problem.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Don't even get me started on this one. (See, I toldja there was more pent up inside.)....Several times lately, I've given someone a a perfectly good answer, only to have someone come along behind me and contradict me, confusing them.

 

True, but a few can't do the work of a community. When I was first burned out, in an attempt to chill, I'd watch for days as this would happen and I'd finally show up and lead in the right direction.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Follow some of my recent posts and you might see how I arrived at this point at this time.