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pbpersson

The future of Linux

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as a home user only,

i have friends who visit and ask whats that you are running on your computer?

i tell them its linux and they are interested.

oh is it a new microsoft thing they ask?

not a clue do they have that anything else exists !!!!!

one particular friend uses his pc for a phone / fax /answering machine for his business (whilst he is out on call) and once his work day ends he is a pc game player and pc tv watcher.

 

i have showed him how to install and configure his machine (and he can now do this himself) but...

and these are his words "when they have games out for linux like splintercell etc etc..."

then i will consider changing but not before.

 

he say's he wants to be able to purchase a game cd, stick it in the drive and install it with a single click and then just play it !

 

this is the mentality of some winblows users, sod the work stuff gimme the games.

 

when linux has some top notch native games of the quality now available on the windows platform,

(but that are not available on the windows platform) that will be another big chunk away from the big brother that is microshaft.

 

i know you guys and gals look at things from a more technical angle and this is just a simple thing but if my friend thinks it how many others think the same.

and remember it is the home user many of you are talking about !

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when linux has some top notch native games of the quality now available on the windows platform,

 

We are running both Quake 3 and Doom 3 on our Linux computer.

 

I must admit that they were not simple to install, but they work just fine.

The only bug is that I keep getting killed right off the bat. :lol2:

 

Banjo

(_)=='=~

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reb2,

 

that is the group of MSWin users that should not waste their time trying out Linux, and you should not waste your and their time trying to get them to try it. Not that you are doing that, I'm talking in general.

 

The point of Linux and games is simple:

as long as people who might buy a Linux version of a game will still buy the windows version (and play it on MSWin, dualbooting, or on wine/winex/cedega), they still count as MSWin game buyers. No matter if they would have bought the game in the Linux version, had it been available, they still buy the MSWin version.

 

So, for software houses, those people count right up with the MSWin users. They are not a lost sale if there is no Linux version.

 

Now, those who _only_ buy native Linux games are the ones that game houses should port for.

Now you see the Catch22.

Those who buy games regularly buy them for MSWin, have MSWin games, play them in whatever way they can (win or lin+wine or whatever). Those who are really on Linux and only buy native games are rare - not true gamers. Most who are on Linux are perfectly happy with the games they can run, maybe mostly open source games, with some closed source/proprietary games.

 

Those who can live without games must first come to Linux - gradually, there will be some that get curious about some game, and hopefully there will be more and more people that buy only native Linux games.

 

Then there will be a potential, it will be up to the game houses to make money off of that.

 

It's sad but true - the LInux users are just not real gamers, and the real gamers game with MSwin versions of the game.

 

 

So the point is: we must first help lots and lots of others to move to Linux (not dualboot, really use just Linux).

At the same time, they must be made aware that if they want to get some game, it would be best to get a native Linux game.

 

The bad thing is, it seems it will take lots and lots more Linux users, since those on Linux are the ones not gaming (like those on Mac, maybe) so Linux may need to have 15% desktop/home user marketshare.

 

The good thing is: there easily are that many people availble and ready (with some help) to use Linux. It's the help part and the PR part that are missing in this equation.

 

BTW I have been looking at Linux games, open source. True, they are not in the same class as doom3 or neverwinternights or splinter cell - but that doesn't mean they are no fun.

 

Check out:

glchess

glgo

gl-117

globulation

nethack_falconseye

lincity

atomix

egoboo

xarchon

xlogical

slune

gcompris

childsplay

atanks

boson

bzflag

battle for wesnoth

open transport tycoon (well, needs some data from the cdrom)

 

oh, and of course the best flight sim: flightgear

 

lots more - see also http://www.happypenguin.org/

 

I haven't played all of the above, but those were easy to urpmi into my system. True, some are really not goodlooking, but they can still be fun to play - anyone remember archon of Commodore 64? Xarchon, there you go!

I did check and like: slune (ok, political slant to it that some may dislike), gl-117, flightgear (although I never really played it, it's too realistic, but as far as flightsims go, this one is excellent with maps to cover the whole world), frozen-bubble, glgo, glchess, xlogical (also in the form of pathological - which needs pygame installed even though urpmi will not do that for you), battle of wesnoth, .....

 

Then there are some proprietary games available:

http://www.tuxgames.com/

 

 

Linux has lots of nice games, lots of free games that are fun to play, some for just a few minutes, some for hours, and then some nice proprietary games.

For the diehard gamer, this doesn't suffice, they want to play some online games with their buddies, but the incidental gamer can really find nice things, including educational stuff for the kids, fun 2 player games on 1 machine, network games, etcetc.

 

However, there will not likely ever be a top notch native Linux game that is not available on Windows - anything good from Linux gets ported due to it being GPL/FLOSS. Making a closed source Linux game costs too much effort...

 

The other day, after having had a look at glchess (with gnuchess as the engine), I saw a 3D chess game in the shop for 'only' 25US$ (29 CHF), and I just though: people just don't know better....

:unsure:

 

Ah well... :zzz:

 

 

Ps great HHGTTG quote in your sig...

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Next to that, linux isn't linux. Every system has a different version of the kernel, different patchset, different services/daemons, etc.

This makes the landscape much more heterogeneous, which makes for good health and defence against viral diseases. Even with a 100% Linux landscape.

a very good point. most non-linux users and microsoft propaganda always say that the linux kernel is not more secure than the windows kernel when confronted with viruses. it's like a ferrari driver claiming that every other car, like a fiat 600 or renault twingo or whatdoiknow runs with a ferrari-engine, thus it will have the same vulnerabilities... what a nonsense and lack of logical thought. :D

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aww you forgot my current favourite.......

 

crack attack !!!!!

 

it has to be "the most addictive" little thing i have played in years!

 

simple but effective, like me (well the simple part anyway lol)

 

but on a more serious note this friend of mine is being quite genuine, he would go linux full time and give up on m$ if the games were available.

(he currently dual boots) and uses winblows xp for gaming almost exclusively.

 

and i know he is not alone, i have read on this very site many people saying exactly the same thing.

 

but "i" do understand what you are saying, the market drives these things and at the moment the market share is not there to make it worth the investment from the big guns (both hardware / drivers and software ).

 

never mind i am a patient person, and time is linux's best friend (linux has plenty of time even if we the current users can't wait).

i think eventually it will all come together and the linux world will have its top notch games

its just a question of time or should that be "tyme" lol

regards

reb

 

p.s. i love that quote from "the hitch hikers guide to the galaxy" my other favourite is "time is an illusion....lunchtime doubly so.... drink up".

oh and then theres......"and most of the inhabitants on that little blue/green planet are miserable, mean, and moody, and most of the cause of this seems to be because of the movements of small green pieces of paper,.... which is odd because it wasn't the small green pieces of paper that were unhappy" roflmao.

i shall stop now, sorry peeps, otherwise i shall write the whole book !!

Edited by reb2

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when linux has some top notch native games of the quality now available on the windows platform,

 

We are running both Quake 3 and Doom 3 on our Linux computer.

 

I must admit that they were not simple to install, but they work just fine.

The only bug is that I keep getting killed right off the bat. :lol2:

 

Banjo

(_)=='=~

point proven...there are none

 

...and how do those of us that like racing games steer our vehicles and use our pedals? ..heh, even joysticks that work in linux do not as well as in win....at least not the (logitech) 2 joysticks and gamepad I have.

Edited by bvc

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There doesn't have to be a catch-22. As I said before, it is we linux-users that have the power to change these things.

  • Refuse to buy a game unless it works in Linux natively and the installer is on the disks.
  • Email or call the company and tell them why you bought the game.
  • If a game exists that you think you might like to play or have played on someone else's machine, email the company and ask them when there will be a native linux version so you can buy it.
  • Set up a site where you can urge fellow linux users to email companies that provide linux native games and tell them you bought their game for that reason only and/or email companies who don't provide linux native and ask them when they will start.

I purchased a winex subscription a couple years ago for the required 3 months, so I could play my favorite Windows games that I had already purchased before switching to Linux. Have not purchased a game since then that did not provide a native Linux installer.

 

point proven...there are none

If you mean there are no native linux games the quality of Windows games, I submit:

Neverwinter Nights

Unreal Tournament 2004

Edited by Steve Scrimpshire

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[edited]

 

The few games that are good in linux are only for one very small market. To say we shouldn't buy a game if there's no linux port is absurd in the least. We spend a lot of money and time on these machines and part of the reason is for fun games. If win has it we buy it. Can't see anyone sitting around twiddling their thumbs, staring off into space saying "I'm sacrificing for the cause...it's worth it...it really is...this will pay off some day...oh look, a fly on the wall....hmm what should I compile next, since I have no game to play....I'm tired of tinkering and wanna relax and play a game...BUT, I am not going to buy a win game....nope, not gonna....it's worth it!"

"where are my car keys and wallet!" :lol2:

 

yes, there are no games for linux ;)

Edited by bvc

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actually, there's quite a few, and in a few genres: http://www.tuxgames.com/

First Person Shooters, Roleplaying Games, Strategy...

 

Point being, if you want things to change, then you have to do something to change them.

 

If you don't want them to change, then do nothing, but let those who do want to change things do their thing (unless it includes blowing up corporate headquarters or sending them animal parts in the mail...that is... ;) )

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tymark's exactly right: If you want things to change then you get out there and make a fuss. Moaning and groaning about the current state of affairs gets you nowhere. Nobody's saying that linux is on the level of windows for gaming, bvc, geez.

 

Personally, I'd say being able to play Quake 3, Doom 3, Unreal Tournament 2k3/2k4, Neverwinter Nights (and bzflag of course hehe) is a fine start.

 

Unreal Tournament is a perfect example of how things can and should be. They cater to their main market, which is obviously windows users, but there on the 3rd disc for the linux users is the installation script.

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At the rate that people are commenting on my laptop running Linux.. its only a matter of time till linux hits it big time :D

 

quote "whoa that looks cool"

quote "wow thats cool ,how do i do that?"

 

iphitus

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I think linux will eventually hit big time and even overtake Windows, specifically because it's open, and the world will see the advantages to it. Just give it time.

Edited by tymark

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so you want a medal for giving up games? :lol2:

 

The few games that are good in linux are only for one very small market. To say we shouldn't buy  a game if there's no linux port is absurd in the least. We spend a lot of money and time on these machines and part of the reason is for fun games. If win has it we buy it. Can't see anyone sitting around twiddling their thumbs, staring off into space saying "I'm sacrificing for the cause...it's worth it...it really is...this will pay off some day...oh look, a fly on the wall....hmm what should I compile next, since I have no game to play....I'm tired of tinkering and wanna relax and play a game...BUT, I am not going to buy a win game....nope, not gonna....it's worth it!"

"where are my car keys and wallet!" :lol2:

 

yes, there are no games for linux ;)

Let's try this again:

This post is condescending and uncalled for. While, by the letter of the law, it does not violate guidelines, it is clearly intended to be inflammatory (which is against board guidelines). This topic was about the 'future of linux', but bvc seems to wish it to be about 'belittling other forum members who actually wish to do something about the future of linux'.

Actually he is spot on steve.... the point is you and me probably prefer different games and prefer tinkering... lots of people don't... bvc obviously likes both.

 

I personally have given up games ... at least non-native and NEVER wine a game (only photoshop and thats for a specific reason)

 

Yep you and I probably do deserve a medal... we are sticking to our principles on this even if life might be easier/simpler if we didn't...

bvc chooses not to .. however I also know he does lots of other stuff, not only for linux but other good causes...

 

.. it was a short post and possibly condecending but it could be read as you like... and it contains more than a grain of truth... which is perhaps why it niggles so....

 

:beer:

 

and lets get on with the topic at hand.... :D

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devries, thanks a million for cleaning this thread up.

 

Everybody, can we keep this ON TOPIC please?

 

 

Steve, I agree and disagree.

 

The points you mention are good for those who _care_ about running Linux, and only Linux, and games.

 

_I_ don't care much about games. I have had Railroad Tycoon Gold for Linux on my shelves for ages, still haven't ever even installed it.

Did install and play Majesty, my wife still plays it now and then too. And it makes for a nice section in my reviews, showing off that there is no Linux forking.

 

On the other hand, there are people who just want to play cool games, the hot ones right from the cd presses.

 

Those people are not going to hold off. And asking them to hold off is a waste of breath/bandwidth, IMHO.

 

But you're right, the Catch 22 I mentioned is not really that strongly a true Catch 22 - there is a way out, namely not buying MSWin games, but spending money on Linux games. If there is a considerable market, there will be more game houses porting/making games. Simple economics.

 

BTW read also this:

http://games.slashdot.org/games/05/02/04/1...tid=206&tid=106

and the linked article:

http://www.cooltechzone.com/index.php?opti...id=984&Itemid=0

 

 

I don't believe that sending email and nagging about Linux ports will really help much - I would guess they treat that kind of email the same as spam.

 

BTW another good way to make Linux games more popular could be if you play lan/inet games of a type that exists for Linux. There will be some games to pick from, and if one of those is available for Win and Lin, and others only Win, the one that is available for Lin too gets the vote.

This implies that you are part of a group that actually has playing together at a higher priority than playing a particular game.

Not that I believe that this works for most people though....

 

 

In any case: those who want to stop dual-booting and those who just have Linux, should be pointed out that there are some Linux games of high quality, both FLOSS and proprietary.

If they care about high quality proprietary games, they should go out and buy Linux games.

 

That is all there is to it. If someone wants Splinter Cell, I'm not going to start on Frozen-Bubble. Get an XBox or

 

BTW I wonder how much of a problem many of those Linux?-not-in-a-million-years gamers would have with Linux if they couldn't copy/pirate MSWin games so easily...

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