The future of Linux

[Hemtah]

Hello,

The first i used linux was 4 years ago, i was so disapointed about linux, and though i will never ever use it again.

 

And, today i have changed my mind and decided to give a second chance to linux and i can tell to everyone even if i have got a lot of trouble to install all my applications and my USB modem, i am so happy about the great change of linux and it's environment, more user friendly, and i really like it, i love using command, and i just hate to use ms windows which s*** every seconds.

 

To new Linux newbie give it a try...

 

Today, I am using linux at home and for my job ;-)

So, linux has a great future and it's improved every second...

[Ixthusdan]

windows is as safe as you make it

And that means a lot of hard work to keep up with the constant virus attacks, updating your def files on a almost daily basis. And thats not just because windoze is the most widely used OS, its because its fundamentally flawed from the ground up and easy peasy to hack into.

 

The only good good thing about windoze is the software thats been written for it.

 

But as an OS it stinks. Had a Linux desktop OS been released at around the time of windoze 95, windoze would never have achieved its global dominance. as a desktop OS.

Every empire falls, and windoze days are numbered. (pain in the ass OS that it is )

 

Yuo want to make me angry with computers? force me to use windoze.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

I agree 100% with this post. Marketing and advertising makes it seem easier.

[bvc]

SP 2 works fine here.

 

Again to you updating MS and the anti virus maybe a pain in the ass

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I d/k if that was for me or not...if so, like i said, I do not run anti anything, it is not necessary... and a quick google relveals sp2 would screw me for days. Glad it's fine for you but that is not the majority.

[FX]

I've noticed that I've kind of brought alot of negativity into the thread against Linux. So here is my idea on how to really get Linux going.

 

All you younger people that are still in school, from grade school on up let your school know the benefits of Linux. This will not only get people to learn linux, but also show them there are other options out there besides MS.

 

One of the problems with linux is that most people have used MS their whole life and moving to Linux is a learning curve, not matter what is said its a learning curve. One way to combat that, is get the school systems to use Linux. Introduce younger people to Linux, when they are more interested in learning. Younger people are more willing to take on the learning curve.

 

With more and more schools using Linux that will be or could be the best PR for Linux.

[Guest anon]

out of 4 years and 3 months, I have run antivirus software for 3 months. Not one virus. 2 worms.

Only recently started running a firewall since getting broadband.

no hard work here..

you just have to know what you are doing ;)

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Well you have been lucky so far, and also your just running a personal PC. But Its not as simple of just knowing what your doing, i am surrounded by some major international company's here, its common for me to hear that their computer systems have shut down..... or been shut down for an hour or two because of viruses or OS problems. Maybe some of their IT staff are idiots (they are, LOL) but not all of them.

The main problem is that windoze was designed to be a single user machine. (unlike *nix ) That, along with its other problems makes it fraught with security issues and an easy target.

Every new version of windoze released is an attempt to improve its fundamentally flawed system isn't it?

 

The reason why most of the worlds web servers run on Linux/Unix is not because its free, its because its requires little maintenance, and is far more secure and stable than windoze.

 

All that desktop Linux needs to succeed is good drivers and some improvements in consumer software, and thats coming fast at an ever increasing speed.

Well, and some good advertising etc.

[aRTee]

1)

The MSWin we should compare to is winXP sp2, because that's what Joe Blow will be using. Don't start about W2K because that's not what comes on the pc Joe gets from the store.

 

 

2)

Windows is as safe as you make it?

 

No, Windows is as safe as the regular user makes it. So, how exactly do you prevent email viruses from running if you're using Outlook (which is what most people do) and the user has admin rights?

Same for IE and activeX.

And why the user (your wife, kids whatever) have admin rights is easy: there are plenty of progams (lots of games) that don't run without admin rights. You have little choice in those cases, and this is about reality.

 

And don't tell me that you can handle that, and that it can be easily done, this is about Joe B again.

 

Windows is as safe as the user can make it. Realistically, this is not very safe on average.

 

The average MSWin pc has tens or hundreds of malware programs installed; the percentage of spam-zombies is a multitude of the Linux pc's out there.

 

 

 

3) Linux and hw is easy to solve: make it preloaded. That's the only solution, and that's the game MS is playing and has been playing all along.

For that Linux needs marketing and PR.

 

 

4)

upgrading Linux is not necessary 2x a year, but reinstalling Win often is _for Joe B_...

Then again, if your hardware is willing and you happen to have the commercial editions, you can do a clean install and all you will have to add are the win32codecs and libdvdcss. Or, use urpmi to upgrade - I have done it from 10.0 to 10.1 and had no problems.

 

 

5)

MSWin has the big advantage for Joe B that his family, friends, neighbours and colleagues all also use it.

Plenty of people to ask for help.

 

This is the one biggest missing thing for Linux. (Darkelve, this is what my project is about. With any luck we can solve this.)

Forget 'WIn is so much easier'. Think as Joe B: who's going to help you, the computer unsavvy, with all this complicated computer stuff?

With MSWin the answer is easy, with Linux, it's just not.

For those without interest in computers, who don't want to learn Linux and figure out what hardware to buy, how to use the (different) software, who don't want to go to some webforum and as for help, or (better) use google to figure things out - they have _no_ choice - they can't use Linux. They don't want to be on their own. With MSWin they are not on their own.

 

 

6)

one of the other things that come with that: plenty of people to get software from,... I see why Adobe doesn't make PhotoShop available for Linux - I doubt they would sell many copies, but it would certainly bring (more) piracy to Linux.

 

 

7)

ATI has to make drivers, since their stuff just doesn't work as well as Nvidia's with Linux.

The point is: those on Linux just say: if you ever want to use Linux, better buy Nvidia graphics.

And those on Linux also happen to have, on average, better computer skills and knowledge -so they are the ones that are asked for advice.

Here for once, there is an advantage in the Joe Blow type that was playing out badly for ATI and well for Linux: if you explain that _if_ they want to try Linux (in a not so distant future), they better get Nvidia.

 

Joe Blow is not educated about computers, all he wants is to keep his options open.

 

8)

If Joe can handle MSwin so well, why are there so many MSWin spamzombies filling my inbox and getting my cpu load to 100% through spamassassin?

Those who can deal well with MSWindows can deal well with Linux, and if they're on MSWin it's because they want/need something that Linux doesn't offer (games or whatever).

 

 

9)

Video drivers are the easiest thing if you have a commercial edition. They autodetect ATI and NVidia graphics and install the driver. Nothing difficult about it.

If you get a preloaded system, the drivers will be there.

 

 

 

XP came out what, 4-5 years ago. One install, (even though you should reinstall once a year to keep a really nice clean running system, which by the way "Joe Blow" home pc operator is not going to do) and thats it. Linux updates and upgrades every 6 months. So what are your options with that will you have two or three.

 

One, backup your /home dir. if even you have that on a seperate parition, which by the way "Joe Blow" home pc operator is not going to have, especially if the computer came with Linux pre-installed. Now to backup your home system. How do you go about that? Well you can't back it up while logged in cause the parition is "busy". (If I'm correct on that). So the next choice would be log in as root and then tarball up your /home and then burn it. So whats the problem with that? Well you supposedly should never log in as root.

 

Two get a live cd throw it in and then tarball up the home parition and then burn it. Tell me how many "Joe Blow" home pc operators are going to do that?

 

Three: Try and I say try to use the "upgrade" option when upgrading to the next release. How many times has this failed? Even if its low, its still not acceptable. You tell me how much "Joe Blow" home pc operator is going to know about fixing, if possible, broken packages for the upgrade option.

 

 

I don't believe that you can get preloaded systems with no separate /home. All systems that I've seen advertised as preloaded had a separate home, and in some cases you could even order your partitioning the way you want it.

And what's this stuff about dirs being in use? Why make a tarball, you have a cd burner, just burn the things you want to archive. Don't tell me burning a dir is too hard with K3B, I have friends who use MSWin mostly but go to Linux for K3B to burn their photos - Nero is not easy enough and not powerful enough (yeah, surprised me to, but this is what they tell me).

 

However, most MSWin preloaded machines have only 1 big partition. If that should ever go haywire, they get to use some rescue cd (well, ask someone to help them with that, this is still Joe B).

Or just lose all data when the obligatory format comes along.

 

BTW Joe does in fact get his system reinstalled, but needs help from some friend to do so.

 

And yes, on Linux the upgrade can go wrong, but

1) it is not as necessary

2) usually works better than a MSWin upgrade or SP install

I agree, this should be improved.

 

 

 

Quote:

Linux is great, as long as they are happy running outdated apps and packages in 6 months.

 

 

Well, as if Joe Blow cares about running outdated apps. There are more people on Win95/98/98SE/ME than there are on Linux. Probably 3 to 5 times more.

Lots still using IE 5 or older, or even netscape 4.7 or some such dinosaur.

Please don't mix up the habits of Joe Blow with those of people who want the latest (less than 6 months old) software.

 

 

Like I said I like and use Linux but the only advantage I see Linux having over Windows for "Joe Blow" home pc operator has is "choice, free, and viri/malware free". Not much else.

 

Well, that and _freedom_.

I know, Joe doesn't see it, but it's like all healthy people don't really appreciate that until they lose their health.

 

 

FX, when you talk about Linux upgrading issues and downloading, you're talking from a computer-savvy perspective - on my wife's pc, I last upgraded in September 2004 (10.1OE), before that it was March/April (10.0OE - because I wanted to see how well it would run and how easy it would install - easiest machine to install on that one can imagine). Before that it was 9.1 I think, somewhere 2002?

Never did it bother her that she wasn't running the latest stuff.

Joe B doesn't bother will all that. At all.

 

 

Linux needs to made easier to use, and thats it. All other arugements are useless until that happens. Again us/we/those of us here know that ONCE you learn linux its not that hard. Key word being ONCE and LEARN.

 

The first part I agree with. It needs to be made easier to use. But not to be able to stack up to MSWin, it can do that nicely as it is, technically, it 'just' needs to be preloaded and people need to have friends/acquaintances that can help them out.

 

Lastly, most computer users only care about what they can do with their pc, not how it works or how to maintain it. They don't even want to learn how to use it - they will only put in the effort if they see that the results of that can pay off, in terms of what they wanted to do.

 

People don't want to learn how to use PhotoShop (gimp, gaim, msn) to learn just that, they want to use it and are prepared to go through the 'bad' time of learning since they realise what the payoff is.

 

Learning to use an OS for most is not what they find useful. And they're probably right.

 

So they will always need someone to help them out when they get stuck. They don't care if their pc is a spam zombie, until the moment that they can't upload some pics to the online digital print shop, because their bandwidth is taken up by the spam mails.

They don't even care about spyware and other malware, until the moment that their pc slows to such a crawl that they can't use it like before.

And that's the point where they get in touch with that handy acquaintance, who will know just the medicine. And since they don't want to change their ways, and before the mess they actually liked their system, the medicine is very rarely Linux.

[pbpersson]

Course that is after you explain to them what gaim is, then you have to explain to Joe Blow what urmpi is and how to setup it up after telling him where the site is and this is just Mandrake. There are what 200 or so other distros that just happen to do things their own little way. That can of worms hasn't even been touched yet in this thread, or at least I might have missed it. Uniformity would be really nice, but again, I'll get cut down on that comment by some/most too.

 

Are you feeling cut down? I'm just having a nice internet discussion while I sit here drinking my mug of coffee in the desert. :D

 

Okay, so regarding this Mr. Joe Blow....what is so hard about telling him what Gaim is? Accordring to my quick Google research, it is "A multi-protocol instant messaging (IM) client" and it sounds sort of cool! Does Joe Blow know what Google is? Does he know what AIM is? Here in the states it is a brand of toothpaste. Joe Blow 20 years ago didn't know anything about Windows, Microsoft, Excel, or Nero either....or even AOL. Don't tell me Joe Blow cannot learn new things, I know better. He learned computers and Windows. :-) Learning Linux is nothing more than another learning curve. If these people were really as stupid as you made them out to be, they could never buy a new car for fear that the windshield wiper controls might be different. :D

 

On the topic of SUSE being different from Mandrake which is different from Red Hat, might I point out that we also have cars from Mercedes, Lexus, Honda, Toyota, Ford, Chevrolet, etc.? No one is suggesting there only be one car made by one manufacturer so we always have the same exact controls on the stereo and we never need to learn something new. :D

 

If I was a virus writer I would find the variety of Linux very insurmountable. How can I write a virus to attack Linux people if I don't know what distro they are using, what email package, and what browser? :unsure:

 

Yet if all distro makers do what Mandrake is trying to do and the Linux experience can be just a point and click world like Windows there might be hope for the Joe Blows.

 

So.....there's some new thoughts. Back to you! :D

 

 

 

Phil

[bvc]

Every new version of distros released is an attempt to improve its fundamentally flawed system isn't it?

 

I'm not lucky, just not stupid ;) If that's not so, how come the average, with just desktop pc's as I, have issues I do not? You can not hide this with the network initiative. Though that is true it is not the prob. The prob is a combo of what aRTee and FX has said and what nano told me last night.

 

As of now and the near future, linux can not target the group that would allow linux to even think of dominating. These people run single desktops at home and want it fast, easy, and simple.

 

In the past it has been said that if you win the corp you'll win the home users. That was only true in the past and only once. That was when the majority didn't have a pc at home. Now they do. It is reversed. What people use at home is what will be used in corp. Linux a;ready has servers, it needs desktops. Fast, easy, and simple. All point and click...or forget it.

 

FX, w/o negativity you can't define the positive. What are OS/distro reviews? W/o shadows you would only see one shade of light. That's what many here see...one shade of light. Shadows are a beautiful thing. They add character and definition which brings out the true matter and detail in a things exsistence which in turn allows you to see it for what it really is. There has been no bitching, whinning or moaning in this thread except from those that only see one shade of light ;) How many will read this thread, that didn't know that steering wheels don't work with linux and that joysticks (mabe only some, but I have 2 that are very popular) don't work as well as in win? That is not bitching any more than the comments made about win here. But that's ok right? They can just keep living in that one shade of light world and miss all the goodness :D

[bvc]

1) most ppl I know wisely still have sp1

 

2) I use outlook....no prob. Like I said, 0 virus and 2 worms in 4.3 years.

admin privy's? wha? I care? I run as root and admin on win....what is your point exactly?

I get 0 spam

0 spyware

 

I'll tell you all you'd like but I won't write a book on how to do it ;) you're a geek...figure it out. Google is all you need. How many books have I read on computers? 0

 

3) preloads solve nothing when updates need to be done and trouble arises.

 

4) upgrading is desired constantly ;)

 

5) takes care of the rest ;)

Edited February 6, 2005 by bvc

[Guest anon]

Every new version of distros released is an attempt to improve its fundamentally flawed system isn't it? 

No it isn't, well not in the case for Linux. Its because of the basic file system layout, separate partitions for core files and different users that make it more secure and stable. New versions of Linux only add to the functionality of the product, more hardware support etc and improved software. But its not fundamentally flawed.

Breaking into windoze is far easier than Linux and as it was originally designed to run as a single user M/C its easier to destroy anything you want to, once inside.

I think as long as the windoze OS stays on a single partition and with a user having access to all, it will remain insecure and be the subject of constant hacks and viruses. And this is where Linux has a major advantage over windoze.

Its just a question of time before desktop Linux becomes a major player, its continued growth around the world seems unstoppable.

[arctic]

as long as people get the following scenario, they will think about alternatives to windows.

 

here comes the scenario (happened 5! times (two times to me, the rest to friends):

 

we are in the era, where a modem is still a luxury. win98 just came out. whoa!

the computers it is installed on do not have any net-access, but they have good ol' fprot as virus-guard.

after some months, win98 deleted itself! while some basic stuff was still there, the whole c:\windows folder was empty. reinstalled the system, some time later, the same happened again. after two such crashes and loosing my important data along the way, i and a friend switched to os2 warp (rip), the others bought a mac.

 

we are in the year 2005. windows still crashes, got more expensive, the sp2 can destroy your system. then there are viruses, etc. yeah, you get it. people get rid of windows. why do you think, the mini-mac is such a success? because it is a rather cheap alternative to an instable windows system for joe average who maybe never heard of linux.

 

and as long as servers need to be stable, the home-pc kernel of windows will never make stable servers. just take a look at german universities. they all switch to linux for some reason. ;)

[aRTee]

2) I use outlook....no prob. Like I said, 0 virus and 2 worms in 4.3 years.

admin privy's? wha? I care? I run as root and admin on win....what is your point exactly?

I get 0 spam

0 spyware

 

I'll tell you all you'd like but I won't write a book on how to do it  you're a geek...figure it out. Google is all you need. How many books have I read on computers? 0

 

 

Yeah, but my comment was about Joe Blow. You seem to be under the impression that since you can keep your machine clean, and therefor MSWin is proven to be capable of being maintained well, my point doesn't hold.

However, it does, as the average box is a malware infected machine, and if it's on a permanent internet connection, it's sending us spam as I write this.

 

_You_ can keep your MSWin machine clean. I likely could too, but I have no inclination to learn how to do that. I don't care about games (the ones you can get for free with Mdk are more than enough for me), so I have had no issues taking distance from the platform known as Windows.

 

In the same vein, some here are arguing from the point of Linux in the same way: I don't know much about Linux, yet I can get it running and have no big issues.

The issues with MSWin in terms of malware are real. The issues in terms of Linux hardware support and limited software availability are real too.

 

Face it, Joe Blow cannot keep his windows machine clean. He can manage, with help, to keep it running.

And he can without too much problems, get his steering wheel to function.

 

Joe Blow trying a Linux distribution without proprietary driver support cannot ask around to get his Nvidia graphics card running even if _we_ all know that that is really not so hard.

 

The point is: people have come to accept how things are with MSWin. This is market inertia - much stronger than the corporate lock-in that's holding back corporate Linux desktop adoption.

 

 

BTW did you know that early 2004 the statistics were that of all wireless LAN devices, 35% got returned to the shops...

And those devices were returned because the consumer couldn't get them to function. Guess what: they functioned fine.

(Note: 35% of all devices were returned to the shops because the buyer couldn't get them to work and the devices were found to work fine. This implies that more devices got returned, some were really defective.)

 

Really, Joe Blow has no clue about computers, and until he can get help with Linux, his best bet is to stick with MSWin. Or, as has been mentioned, go for a MiniMe / MiniMac. But there again he will face the same issues: not so many users to share experiences/tips with, to ask for help and to get pirated software from.

And things do work differently - why do you think did Apple have to spend so much on marketing with the switching campaign?

 

3) preloads solve nothing when updates need to be done and trouble arises.

 

4) upgrading is desired constantly 

 

3) preloads solve reinstallation problems since all hardware is properly selected for Linux compatibility.

If trouble arises, I agree things are bad, and point 5 does Linux in.

 

4) Not more than that people really should not be on MSWin95 anymore.

 

 

BTW one point that people into Linux tend to miss: Linux today is miles better than Win95 and 98 at the time - save for incompatible hardware. One of the reasons that Win could break through is that MS had a good way to handle the competition into oblivion.

Win had no strong competition, in the non-technical sense, so it could easily dominate.

Now, Linux may be better, but it has to compete with the installed base, market inertia and lock-in.

 

It takes more than a zero price tag to get in there.

 

But things are looking good. Like I said, in one of the most inertia and lock-in hampered companies, I now have a Linux workstation/desktop. Contrary to my own work pc that I installed Linux on, this one is managed and supported by IT.

 

Linux will get there, but it will not be by getting gamers to accept bad steering wheel action and Cedega messing about.

It will be through those who have demands that Linux can meet and who decide to take the plunge. Plenty of those around. Things are moving, even if it's too slow to the taste of most. Slowly, but surely, is nicer than hitting a wall at too high a speed.

Accelleration is coming (Brazil, Munich, Extremadura in Spain, Vienna, etc all help out in the credibility).

 

2005 is going to be a damn fine year for Linux, better than 2004 was - which was quite good too, actually.

 

More preloaded machines, getting a few percent more users - compared to the whole home desktop market, it wouldn't surprise me if the total number of Linux desktop home users saw a 25% increase this year. I would estimate a 10% increase at least...

More and more hardware will get open source drivers, and we will see the first Open Spec (relatively) fast 3D card in Q2. (There was another thread about that.)

 

In short, things are looking good.

[Crashdamage]

After reading all the thoughtful comments here, I still say the 4 points I made in my post on page 3 of this thread wrap most of this up, and that most comments since are a further (but good) expansion on those points. I could quote and reply endlessly to what has been written here already.

Here they are again, in a nutshell, but with added comments 'cause you guys have made me think a little more about this:

 

1. I said we've gotta have pre-installed Linux systems in the stores, with a choice of software.

I'll add that Linux has also gotta have support from hardware manufacturers. Sorta chicken-and-2 eggs situation. I think games are important, but not the critical factor in Linux adoption for the majority of users. With Linux numbers, the games will come.

But it won't do much good to have people buy a Linux system and find out the new printer-scanner-copier or mp3 player they bought to go with it is Windoze-only. That buyer will never get as far as playing games. That's now a pissed off customer, cussing his choice of Linux - taking the Linux box, not the all-in-one unit - back to the dealer and going back to the Dark Side with another XPee box that "just works".

 

2. A majority of businesses cannot use Linux desktops because of custom, propreitary Windoze software.

I'll add here that if people don't get used to seeing Linux at work, they will naturally be less inclined to try it at home. And I see no Linux answer to lotsa Win-based business software happening for a very long time.

Like I said before, running this stuff with Winshaft as a guest OS via Win4Lin has some usefulness. Win4Lin is really very good and the situation there is improving with Win2000 and XP support coming very shortly, and with no need for patched kernels anymore. VMware simply not a contender - much too expensive and too slow anyway. It was never even intended for such purposes. But either of these methods is an added expense to Linux adoption, too complicated and just too much hassle for most businesses/users.

The only real solution I see here is a very, very capable version of Wine - kinda Crossover Office on steriods, SuperWine - so existing apps can be installed normally and run perfectly on Linux workstations. This is CRITICAL, the importance of something like this to widespread business (and to many home users) Linux desktops cannot be overstated. It would necessarily have to include support for .Net, VBS and DirectX for many such apps to run. Problem is, if such a version of Wine were available it would of course reduce incentives to make more native Linux software...sorta back to the chicken and its eggs...but if enough Linux machines get out there, IMO this would slowly change and native Linux apps would eventually win out.

 

3. Internet Exploder is still a absolutely necessary evil for many businesses and individual users to use sites they need due to idiot webpage designers.

This may be the most difficult problem of all to overcome for many users. Like I said, my business is a good example of IE lock-in, and I see no solution for a long time and believe me, I've looked. It's not just changing the websites themselves, but there are web-based apps that companies have made large investments in programming, distribution of the software (both custom IE plugins and desktop apps for working with websites) and training. This is gonna be very tough, probably tougher than overcoming the desktop applications problem. Again, a SuperWine to run a fullly-enabled IE is probably the only answer. We need to go balls-out on Wine development. Those who claim "cop-out, stay native-only" are not facing the realities of the situation.

 

4. The average user is going to use what seems familiar to them and is unable to do even very simple computer tasks. This effectively blocks migration to other platforms.

Well, this has been discussed for pages in this thread. Simply put, if Linux distros really want to win over home Windoze users, it will have to be just as simple (or even more so) than Windoze. Happily, in many respects it already is, but the problems users have with things like installing video drivers show it still has a ways to go.

For new Win>Linux converts, full environments like KDE and Gnome will, unfortunately, have to an offer an option to nearly duplicate Windoze in look, feel, layout, names, etc. right down to Start, MyComputer and MyDocuments. The transition will need to be nearly seamless. Better may not be better if it's different, 'cause for most users Different is Bad.

 

I think there's no question that right now Linux generally isgood enough. I've used it exclusively at home for 3 1/2 years now and it's obvious it is for me. It's a matter of getting a few things to point-and-click simplicity so Linux can reach a critical mass of users, having a large enough base of "Joe Blow" users and businesses to force support from that 3-headed monster of software and hardware manufacturers and web designers.

 

Last, some side notes, sorry if they're a little OT. To me Mandrake is still the best overall distro, at least of those few I've tried. 8.2 was an anvil. 10.1 seems rock-stable, and pretty much worked right off for me. I have only a couple of details to sort out, kdeinit hanging being the only serious one. It's still a nice mix of being both hands-on enough to use much like Slackware if you know how, and yet GUI-driven enough for many XPee refugees to get a handle on it. Hopefully it will continue this and not go the way of Suse or Linspire, but it's starting to lean a little. I'm sure it's pretty hard for the developers to balance the wants/needs of two very different types of users while maintaining a true open source philosophy.

 

Oh, and I've had no problem with XP SP2, it's great. Just gotta install your software *after* SP2, then disable about 15-20 unecessary services, that's all. And keep your AV up to date, run WinshaftUpdate every week or so, and run AdAware and Spybot Search & Destroy every week. Don't forget to keep your firewall up, defrag now and then, maybe run RegClean occasionally...damn, be careful of those email attachments!! Then Wincrap runs OK. It rocks.

Nothing to it really...it only takes about 10 times as much time and effort as keeping my MDK box right...or my Netware 5.1 server than hasn't been rebooted in a year, or the RH 6.3 router box that hasn't for over 3 years...

Edited February 6, 2005 by Crashdamage

[aRTee]

To point 1 you make, the hardware point - with time, there will be enough users, and actually today there are devices of each type that work well with Linux.

Scanners? Epson for instance.

All in one? Epson, HP, etc.

Syncing with a Palm, that sort of stuff is not hard anymore, maybe to hard for Joe B but not harder than on Windows.

 

Apple users also have to pick their hardware carefully; somehow there it doesn't get mentioned as a negative point.

I don't see that as a major blocking issue, just as a slowing down obstacle - people with incompatible hardware are just not going to get all new Linux compatible parts, even if they'd like to switch to Linux.

 

More and more there is hardware with clear indications that it works with Linux. In some shops, the personnel will be able to inform you about Linux compatibility. This will get more and more common - but I agree it isn't yet today.

 

 

 

Businesses are going to do what is cheapest for them. For some (Erny Ball) the switch to Linux has happened some time ago. Some will see the lower cost of maintenance, others will not. Business is about survival of the most efficient and cost effective - this doesn't mean the one that gets the job done for the lowest amount of cash, but the one who has the best ROI.

 

In my work, Linux is scoring bigtime. Within 3 years, at least (almost) all servers will be Linux, and lots of desktops will be.

 

I think that wine / crossover office may be ok for some businesses, but it's a stopgap measure. No superwine will ever exist unless MS makes one.

 

They may well do this if they see Linux taking over too much marketshare - technically, they could pull it off, the Linux kernel is open source, and MS developers know exactly what MSWin should do.

That would mean everyone can run on a Linux kernel but get the MS layer to run MS apps. This would mean MS would get to sell this layer, and on top of that MSOffice and such.

 

All in all, I think that many businesses will manage to get away from MS, or at least many governments will manage, and they will never come back to Windows.

 

4. The average user is going to use what seems familiar to them and is unable to do even very simple computer tasks

At work, the average user will use whatever he is given.

At home, he will use whatever he can get help with.

That, and it must come preloaded.

 

Simply put, if Linux distros really want to win over home Windoze users, it will have to be just as simple (or even more so) than Windoze. Happily, in many respects it already is, but the problems users have with things like installing video drivers show it still has a ways to go.

For new Win>Linux converts, full environments like KDE and Gnome will, unfortunately, have to an offer an option to nearly duplicate Windoze in look, feel, layout, names, etc. right down to Start, MyComputer and MyDocuments. The transition will need to be nearly seamless. Better may not be better if it's different, 'cause for most users Different is Bad.

 

I agree with this only partially. People actually don't dislike change, if it's in the sense of a new cool thing. If it's in the sense of losing time and not getting things done as efficiently as before, it's bad.

So again, if they know they can get help with this nice virus-resistive Linux machine, they (at least some) will give it a try.

The part about the virus-resistivity is actually the difference they care about, to them this change is good and they damn well know it.

 

 

On several occasions I've been asked advice about what to do, and for an older couple with no computer skills, I couldn't advice them to ditch Windows, even though the guy would have done it. I live too far away from them, and couldn't be around to help out. Buying an apple was also not on the program, they have quite a recent pc, as the salesman said: "fully internet ready". As if that's not the biggest lie...

 

 

We need to build marketshare, preloaded systems, clear compatibility indications (even if only by the salesclerk from some list) and home user networking where they can ask each other help and exchange the latest distributions and tips.

 

 

Every day more pc's get converted. Of all those who try Linux, many start dualbooting. Of all those who have been dualbooting for some time, some start booting only to Linux.

Linux marketshare is growing, and considering where it's at, with all that's supposedly blocking, with things getting unblocked (ATI's new drivers, better and easier to install Nvidia drivers, Intel 'blessing' the name Centrino for use with Linux laptops, wireless working well, etcetc), Linux /OSS getting better - KDE, GNOME, OOo, FF, Xine, Mplayer, K3B, Xorg, etcetc, what's going to happen? Linux marketshare will suddenly stop growing?

Does anyone have any indication that that might happen and what might be the cause of that? Because I don't see it.

 

 

We are all discussing why Linux isn't growing faster than it is, when in fact it's actually growing at a very steady and nice rate. Just because it's so much easier to imagine (and dream?) that Linux suddenly has 15% marketshare and you won't have to search the right shop that has that one compatible piece of hardware (usb cam, scanner, all in one, whatever), that doesn't mean that Linux is not doing very well.

 

The reality is that with a helping hand (mine in the example I'm about to give), Linux fulfills the needs and desires fine of Joe Blow (Jane Blow in this case: my wife,.. and no, her name is not really Jane :) ).

Now if only I could be there helping all those other Janes without my wife knowing,.. ehh, strike that please.... :P

 

A 1000 mile journey starts with a single step. Step by step we're in this Linux expansion. Linux doesn't have to take over. It's enough if it takes a more visible and notable place. This is 2005, and it will happen soon.

[foot]

Hello,

The first i used linux was 4 years ago, i was so disapointed about linux, and though i will never ever use it again.

 

And, today i have changed my mind and decided to give a second chance to linux and i can tell to everyone even if i have got a lot of trouble to install all my applications and my USB modem, i am so happy about the great change of linux and it's environment, more user friendly, and i really like it, i love using command, and i just hate to use ms windows which s*** every seconds.

 

To new Linux newbie give it a try...

 

Today, I am using linux at home and for my job ;-)

So, linux has a great future and it's improved every second...

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Another one here! Been using Mandrake for a coupla weeks after having Win98 crash on me twice in a coupla hours (IE I expect, but the whole OS was getting a tad silly). Downloaded Mandrake, installed, played with it, got a tad confused, so I thought..bah give XP a go. Within about 20 minutes of getting XP up and running about 4-5 things had annoyed me (the ugly desktop, annoying reminders, windows explorer trying to sell me stuff (?!?) amongst other things) then I managed to crash IE. I dunno how I do it (just sit me in front of any version of IE on any computer and it'll crash, trust me :( )...soo, I erased it off and reinstalled Mandrake and haven't looked back.

 

It is difficult and it can be frustrating, but a coupla days later, I have everything I need set up and it works lovely..and it looks great..and they can send me whatever carp they want..not that I have seen much cos Firefox and Evolution have been just fabulous in getting rid of it all. Internet is faster too (due to a lot of factors, but stuff I wouldn't have done if I had not decided to change). I miss me old games but not enough to do anything about it, as I could. Oh and I haven't needed to pay a penny (though I'm deciding who to donate the money I have saved) nor use dodgy cracks.

 

The downside? No dreamweaver (though quanta and Nvu will be OK), no PSP (GIMP is fine, but I can't find a decent animation app with a GUI - ganim8 just doesn't seem to want to work for me) and the games (like I said, I could do something about that, but I just can't be arsed).

 

Here's the thing though...I am not that far above 'Joe Blow' standards - if people want to think that I have a great wealth of techie knowledge simply because I can put a mandrake disk in then..woo..fine by me, but in reality touching Konsole brings me out in sweats and I have to go and do loads of research before I do anything that you lot would (probably) consider routine.

 

Terrible thing this learning business. Tell you what though, its a hell of a lot more preferable to sitting on Windows re-updating spyware S&D, Adaware, Norton, waiting forever as I just double check with that online virus checker (that trend one), pulling my hair out trying to work out why another app has crashed again and why it takes down everybloodything else with it. In a coupla weeks you can count the number of times I have had to kill and application on Mandrake on two hands and certainly not had the OS crash like it did on Win98 frequently.

 

Bah, of course from installation its not easy enough for a lot of people, but give it time and with MS constantly takin the pee it seems kinda inevitable.

 

:)