Guest c_m_f Posted January 6, 2003 Report Share Posted January 6, 2003 where abouts caould i get my hnds on the linux installer for this, and also how do i install quake 2 the rpm complains about something, cant remember now not at home?! all help appreciated Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tyme Posted January 6, 2003 Report Share Posted January 6, 2003 i don't think alpha centauri is one of the ones that you can just download an installer for and use the windows version. i believe this was ported by loki, and you'd have to hunt down a copy of the linux version.. www.tuxgames.com is a good place to look. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest JaseP Posted January 6, 2003 Report Share Posted January 6, 2003 tyme is correct. You cannot get Alpha Centuri working natively from the win-disks. You need the Loki version to get it running natively. Other games like this are; SimCity 3000, Heavy Gear 2, Heavy Metal FAKK2, etc. There have never been any plans I am aware of to make the Loki versions available as a download patch/client to get the Win versions of these games running natively in Linux. Mostly, only certain Quake-based games are available as downloads to convert the win versions to Linux. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DOlson Posted January 7, 2003 Report Share Posted January 7, 2003 That isn't true! Look here: http://aslan.no-ip.com/~dana/mdkxp/?c=artcls/gamelist How many games are there? How many are Quake games? And I'm missing some from the list too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest c_m_f Posted January 7, 2003 Report Share Posted January 7, 2003 so if i want to play it, ill need to buy the loki port? after already buying the windows version? thats bollocks no wonder linux is taking quite some time to come over, its based upn freedom and sharing but something which is a mjaor part of personal computing (gaming) is damped down buy MONEY, the thing which linux geniusly costs nothing of! and no i wont emulate it, that will destroy gaming on linux even further! well theres my opinion on all this and i hope people who are/were involved in linux porting read this and see what I, a linux user think! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tyme Posted January 7, 2003 Report Share Posted January 7, 2003 so if i want to play it, ill need to buy the loki port? after already buying the windows version? yes, but if you had wanted the linux version, you should have considered that before buying the windows version. sorry. thats bollocks no wonder linux is taking quite some time to come over, its based upn freedom and sharing but something which is a mjaor part of personal computing (gaming) is damped down buy MONEY, the thing which linux geniusly costs nothing of! woa there buddy. there ARE free games for linux (check out DOlson's page for a list-don't have the address oneme). unfortunately when games made for windows are ported to linux, the companies which made these games aren't going to sit back and say oh go ahead and give it to them for free. sorry, doesn't work that way. money is spent to make these games, and that money needs to be reimbursed to make more games. facts of life and all that... it's not up to the porters. well, not completely. i'm sure loki made a bit of money, but apparently not enough, because-get this-they went bankrupt and shut down. it's linux gamers like you who refuse to pay for a product that caused them to go under. linux is _not_ free (you could argue that the kernel is free, but anything beyond that...). linux _does_ cost money-just some of use choose not to support those who spend the money to bring us the product (and some of us can't due to financial issues). it is given to us for free, out of principle, but it is not fair for us to just take take take and not give back to these awesome companies which do so much to support us. so sit there and whine all you want...but in this world money is a necessity, and if the companies we want to stick around aren't getting the green, they will go under. facts of life and all that... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DOlson Posted January 7, 2003 Report Share Posted January 7, 2003 If you are so concerned about money, and playing games on Linux, then WHY did you buy the Windows version? I have the Windows version of Heretic II. I also have the Linux version of Heretic II. I have the Windows version of Soldier of Fortune. I also have the Linux version of Soldier of Fortune. Loki doesn't exist now because of many reasons, one of them being people like you who shunned the idea of actually PAYING for Linux software. Do you think that Loki got to port these games to Linux for free? Hell no, they had to pay through the nose, and look where it got them? Surely, it would have been better for them to have not ported any games at all than to have gone under, and to still hear your whining. What I find genuinely amusing is how you you seem to think that Linux can actually get somewhere without someone paying somewhere down the line. You say that emulation hurts Linux gaming, but the truth is that refusing to buy Linux games does even MORE damage. Think about it. How is LGP supposed to buy licenses to port games when Linux users refuse to pay for the games they are releasing??? DOESN'T MAKE SENSE ONE BIT, DOES IT? What it boils down to is this: If you truly believe in Linux, you'll support the OS. If you don't, you'll blame other people for wanting money. If you truly believe, then money is the least of your worries. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest JaseP Posted January 7, 2003 Report Share Posted January 7, 2003 DOlson, A couple of things,... 1st, of the games listed on the page you cited previously, many of them were Quake engine games (Aliens vs. Predator, Return to Castle Wolfenstein,... ). That's what I meant by Quake-BASED. 2nd, Loki being out of business is not due to reluctance to pay for titles twice,... it's about lack of an installed user base to justify the expence of purchasing a license to the games to port over. Loki's gone because of a poor business model. They should have concerned themselves with subcontracting to bigger developers to do the Linux work. Then they may still be around. Instead, they would buy the rights to re-release the code in it's Linux binary version. That's too expensive. Probably their only profitable title was Quake 3, and maybe SimCity 3000. They were terrific coders, just lousy businessmen. I would buy titles I love again for Linux, but most people don't love Linux that much. You really can't blame them for that. After all, if I buy the CD version of an album, why should I have to buy the tape version to play it on my tape player?!?! Same mentality. It's not wrong thinking. The best way to get Linux ports made now is to appeal to the goodwill of the developers. They need for hardcore users who run servers to run game servers, and many servers run Linux. Therefore, a Linux client is a great way to encourage the server runners to run the game servers, and therefore increase popularity of the title. Also, after the conversion is done for an engine, future ports based on it will be easier and will help to increase the cross-platform appeal of the title and the reputation of the company. Think about what older games are still being sold and played,... It's the games that have both strong single and multiplayer content, the ability to mod them and free ability to run servers for them. Quake, Unreal, etc. ... All have those things. You still have to pay about $19.00 for a bundle copy of Quake 3 (Gold, Arena, GOTY, etc. ). Those games have ongoing popularity because of the goodwill that they developed. They have a good reputation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DOlson Posted January 7, 2003 Report Share Posted January 7, 2003 DOlson, A couple of things,... 1st, of the games listed on the page you cited previously, many of them were Quake engine games (Aliens vs. Predator, Return to Castle Wolfenstein,... ). That's what I meant by Quake-BASED. 2nd, Loki being out of business is not due to reluctance to pay for titles twice,... it's about lack of an installed user base to justify the expence of purchasing a license to the games to port over. Loki's gone because of a poor business model. They should have concerned themselves with subcontracting to bigger developers to do the Linux work. Then they may still be around. Instead, they would buy the rights to re-release the code in it's Linux binary version. That's too expensive. Probably their only profitable title was Quake 3, and maybe SimCity 3000. They were terrific coders, just lousy businessmen. I would buy titles I love again for Linux, but most people don't love Linux that much. You really can't blame them for that. After all, if I buy the CD version of an album, why should I have to buy the tape version to play it on my tape player?!?! Same mentality. It's not wrong thinking. The best way to get Linux ports made now is to appeal to the goodwill of the developers. They need for hardcore users who run servers to run game servers, and many servers run Linux. Therefore, a Linux client is a great way to encourage the server runners to run the game servers, and therefore increase popularity of the title. Also, after the conversion is done for an engine, future ports based on it will be easier and will help to increase the cross-platform appeal of the title and the reputation of the company. Think about what older games are still being sold and played,... It's the games that have both strong single and multiplayer content, the ability to mod them and free ability to run servers for them. Quake, Unreal, etc. ... All have those things. You still have to pay about $19.00 for a bundle copy of Quake 3 (Gold, Arena, GOTY, etc. ). Those games have ongoing popularity because of the goodwill that they developed. They have a good reputation. For your information, there was one person at Loki who ran how the business ran. Tell me then, how does Mac Play succeed? They do the SAME THING that Loki did, but for Mac. I didn't claim that the entire reason that Loki went under was because of lack of sales, but you can NOT deny the fact that their lack of sales hurt them in a big way. If people were buying their games, they WOULD NOT HAVE GONE UNDER. Period. But there were not enough people to buy the amount of games they published. I suppose you would argue that LGP is doing business ass-backwards, since they're doing essentially what Loki did, but with cheaper titles. This way, they don't have to sell nearly as many to recoupt their costs. And why are they doing this? Because they learned from LOKI'S MISTAKE. The mistake being that they worked on expensive titles. Mac users don't buy Windows games, and neither should Linux users have to. Oh, and Loki's best selling game was Civilization: Call to Power. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest JaseP Posted January 8, 2003 Report Share Posted January 8, 2003 For your information, there was one person at Loki who ran how the business ran. Tell me then, how does Mac Play succeed? They do the SAME THING that Loki did, but for Mac. I didn't claim that the entire reason that Loki went under was because of lack of sales, but you can NOT deny the fact that their lack of sales hurt them in a big way. If people were buying their games, they WOULD NOT HAVE GONE UNDER. Period. But there were not enough people to buy the amount of games they published. There are/were more MAC users who are/were not hardcore coder types, more home users, etc. Remember MAC started getting big by marketing to schools... Many, if not most, Linux users are developer and server admin types. Read Linux Journal. How many entertainment/home articles do you see in that magazine??? Maybe one every other month?!?! I suppose you would argue that LGP is doing business ass-backwards, since they're doing essentially what Loki did, but with cheaper titles. This way, they don't have to sell nearly as many to recoupt their costs. And why are they doing this? Because they learned from LOKI'S MISTAKE. The mistake being that they worked on expensive titles. It's a receipe for disaster. "Buying" titles to port them, if you ask me. But since they are cheaper titles, they don't have to outlay major $$$. Still, they have to make sure there is a defined market for the titles before they port them. You have to know how many you must move to recoup your cost, and have to know that you can do that. If they can maintain a business model doing that, Bully for them. It wouldn't be mine. I'd be trying to get subcontracts porting games AND office apps to Linux, and release occasional shareware apps that run under Linux. Then, when Linux took off, I'd be poised to grab a big market share. Mac users don't buy Windows games, and neither should Linux users have to. MAC users CAN'T buy windoze games. The CPU is a different architecture. Their stuff wouldn't run. An emulator would crawl. I don't disagree with you that there should be native Linux titles, but right now we just don't have the market for the big (and/or good) titles unless the developers have a soft spot for Linux. That means we get only a trickle. We need to convert more people over to the light side as well as lobby with the developers who might have a soft spot for Linux. Oh, and Loki's best selling game was Civilization: Call to Power. Whatever... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DOlson Posted January 8, 2003 Report Share Posted January 8, 2003 Oh, and Loki's best selling game was Civilization: Call to Power. Whatever... Ask them for yourself. Either way you look at it, LGP is doing something right. I don't buy Windows games, therefore if LGP ports a game that has been out for Windows for some time already, it won't make any difference at all to me, since I only buy what games come to Linux now. Of course we want developers to port in-house, but a LOT more games get canned in-house than from a porting company like LGP who gets a contract to do it... I'm honestly surprised that BioWare didn't ever scrap the Linux idea. Oh, and LGP would prefer that developers port games themselves too. But remember that LGP is a publishing company, and they publish games that they don't port, therefore it's more than a porting house. They didn't port Creatures 3. But they know how to get the game to Linux users, or at least the ones who don't refuse to order online. Therefore, LGP is a good idea for companies who want to publish Linux games. Not every development company has a publisher that would publish for Linux. Ryan Gordon now contracts his labour, but unfortunately he is paid for server ports more than client ports. There are others too, like Dan Olson who is porting Payback, so developers have options. If they want a contractor, there are people to do it. If they want someone else to port and publish it, there is that option. To just throw your hands up and say "Oh, LGP is a porting company, so they suck" is just stupid. To say that the only stream of good games for Linux will come from companies like Epic, BioWare, and id is just ridiculous. LGP is porting games, and they are good games. Maybe not marketed games, but after all, we aren't just sheep doing what everyone else is doing, else we wouldn't be posting on a Linux forum in the first place, would we? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pzatch Posted January 8, 2003 Report Share Posted January 8, 2003 Jonathan No need even give him the time. He sounds like just another Linux means free and free means I don't have to pay for it. All the excuses of I don't want to pay for it twice or I'm looking for the PERFECT OS or why should I have to pay or how could I be part of bringing a company I like down? I didn't have anything to do with them? No amount of explaining simple economics will change his mind. I believe nothing has value untill you have to pay for it. Something is only as valuable as what you will pay for it. If you don't pay for it then it really has no value. I would love to see games for linux on store shelves but I can't see that happening yet untill linux makes a bigger market share. It's just simply that and no more. The best thing would be if every games maker had in house linux developers. But I don't think that will happen untill the linux porting companies can prove that just about every game they port out makes at least 100,000 bucks US. Just about enough to pay for a programer counting benifits. I think that once India starts putting out linux developers a dime a dozen then we'll see every game come out in linux at the same time as the win version comes out. A company in India ( or anywhere really) will have to become trusted by the game makers so that the maker can give the linux developers the info at the same time as they make it. Then every game will come with both versions included. Maybe the MAC world can help in this now that they are working in the *nix world. Please keep up your good work. Pat Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest c_m_f Posted January 8, 2003 Report Share Posted January 8, 2003 i went out and bought the alpha centauri game for windows because i saw it in a sale reduced so i thought "I'LL BUY THAT" and if tehre was a linux installer offered by loki whatso ever, which was the diff between the windows and loki version, or just not full price in general then i WOULD pay for it, fair enough it would be nice if it was also offered free but it seems it isnt! that was what i mean/was trying to get across, i just rather pissed after buying it and finding out i can's play it! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tyme Posted January 8, 2003 Report Share Posted January 8, 2003 that was what i mean/was trying to get across, i just rather pissed after buying it and finding out i can's play it! that's where impulse buying will get ya ;-) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest JaseP Posted January 8, 2003 Report Share Posted January 8, 2003 I'm not blasting you. I agree with you to an extent. The thing is that you have to support companies that port or develop Linux games (within reason, of course) if you want to continue to see Linux-native games. DOlson, I don't say the LGP is crap. They just havent ported anything I'm vaguely interested in yet (Creatures?!?! no thanks). I'd love to see them do a port of Imperium Galactica 2, or Ascendency. I'd buy IG2 again if they did. My Win copy only cost $5 (bargain bin at Walmart). One of the reasons I got it was because it was on the Wine/WineX list. I'm not really into RPGs, but I bought Neverwinter because of the Linux client being released soon. I would have waited but for a reduced price at BestBuy. I even e-mailed Bioware to tell them how much I applaud their efforts, and got a nice, short, thanks e-mail back from them. Now I want to convince them to port Star Wars, Knights of the Old Republic for Linux, since it's based off of the same code. The only problem I see there is that there is no multiplayer planned for KotOR, and that may kill the concept of a Linux port (no multiplayer=no server, no server=no Linux server, no Linux server=no Linux server admins to kiss up to). I really hope not, and hope they use their development of NWN to shorten development for a KotOR port. I noticed, in your Bioware post, you recently bought a Playstation also. I got my PS2 before X-mas and very much like it for DVDs and gaming. That means that I will be less inclined to purchase PC games, especially those that are not ported specifically for Linux. Additionally, Sony supports Linux at least marginally with the PS2 Linux kit. I have a Palm m105 because they are interoperable with both Win (which I must use at work) and Linux, and is the likely platform for my company's plans for portable support with our proprietary software. I have resisted getting Starfleet Command 3, despite very much wanting it, because there is no Linux port and it is not playable under WineX. So my purchases are very much Linux-centric, as I'm sure are yours. My new machine was purchased to primarily be a Linux machine (60 GB HD for Linux, 40 for Win). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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