I want a laptop

[null]

I don't know much about laptops since I've never owned one, and I've hardly ever used one.

 

I know the linux laptop sites, and I have browsed around them, and I intend to browse them some more, but I still like to know what people here think...

 

I don't have any brand preference, and I'll probably buy a used one. I want wireless internet. Would prefer one with a DVD burner / CD burner combo drive, 512Mb. Don't know if nvidia/ATI video matters for notebooks with linux.

 

I will use it just for normal home-user type stuff - browse internet, burn CDs & DVDs, open office, etc. I'm sure it will have win2000 or XP on it, so I will want to install a newer linux distro as a dual-boot - probably mandrake 10.1 OE...

 

Is there anything to watch out for when buying a laptop to use linux on? As I said, I'll probably buy a used one - but not a very old one. I'll be sure to browse around on the linux laptop sites before buying anything, but I like to hear MUB members opinions also.

 

thanks

[arctic]

there is a link that phunny posted in the laptop-section of this board. there you will find lots of laptops and how they perform with various linux-versions. quite good link for getting a rough idea what to take and what not to take.

 

my laptop (dualboot gentoo 2004.2 and windows me) has no problems with the nvidia graphic-chip. the only tricky things are the soundcard (but irrelevant as the lappy is only used for office stuff) and the extra-function-keys. but i think they cause headaches on almost every linux-box.

 

i tried mandrake 10.1 and ubuntu 4.10 "warty warhog" on another (identical) esc laptop and both worked extremely well out of the box, mandrake 10.1 oe (with 2.6 kernel., still having problems with 2.4 kernel on that lappy (btw. it is a 1,8 ghz elitegroup notebook)) even better than ubuntu.

 

if you can, try to get a notebook without any os preinstalled. they are rare but they exist. esc-notebooks are such beasts. thus running/configuring a dual-boot is much easier. :)

[null]

there is a link that phunny posted in the laptop-section of this board. there you will find lots of laptops and how they perform with various linux-versions. quite good link for getting a rough idea what to take and what not to take

 

yeah, I've been there a few times. I'll check that place out a few more times before buying anything. I was just wondering what pointers some people here had, or warnings.

 

Like does it matter to modern linux distros what chip you have in a laptop? When I was at a laptop store today, I saw laptops with: Pentium-4, Pentium-M, Celeron, AMD-M, Sempron, and Centrino. It probably doesn't matter to linux. Is built-in wireless a better choice over using a wireless card in a laptop? Does any linux distro work better than other distros when installed on a laptop as a dual-boot with windows? I don't really have a distro preference. I use FC2 on my desktop and I like it, but I'd like to try mandrake again (10.1 OE) if I get a laptop.

[arctic]

-most laptops have both types of networking cards installed by default. :) i prefer the eth0-cable-version over eth0-wireless (easier to configure and more stable).

-if you want to use mandrake for a laptop, use 10.1 OE. it is a lot better than 10.0 OE in this respect.

-i am not sure about the chipset stuff, but from my experience, amd-chipsets are best.

-which distro is better for dual-boot? i think this is one question for a flame-war. as with a desktop pc, it depends on what you want to do. i never had problems with linux-dualboot on a laptop. and i tried fedora2, ubuntu, mandrake 10.0 and 10.1 and gentoo alongside windows. the only thing you have to keep in mind: some distros like gentoo, debian or slackware are more suited for hackers/geeks, while others like mandrake or suse are more suited for the noob. :P

[iphitus]

I have an acer lappy based on centrino.

 

The support for centrino technology in linux is great, my wireless works (ipw2100.sf.net or ipw2200.sf.net - drivers sponsored by intel) speedstepping (auto throttling on cpu depending on conditions) with cpufreqd. The intel integrated graphics card that is common with many centrinos runs very well, ET runs smoothly in 800x600 with the new i915 driver for it (included from kernel 2.6.9), and even ut2k4 runs, alas at low settings.

 

So I suggest anything based on the centrino chipsets, avoid ATI graphics cards in lappys, they're bad enough on a desktop, let alone a lappy. Mandrake also advertises full centrino support in 10.1OE, which means they're probably including the driver for it :D hopefully cpufreqd as well....

 

As for dual booting, I dont have any problems, I run dual with Windows XP and Arch, and for a while also with SuSE, definitely will have 10.1 OE on this when the ISOs are out :D might install fedora core 3 too....

 

Everythin in this lappy works except the internal card sd card reader, which is no loss when I have an external one :)

 

iphitus

[arthur]

the intel centrinos can get fantastic battery life.

 

suspend-to-disk and suspend-to-ram work in a few lucky notebooks, but i've had to manually patch my kernel to have it work. I always use hibernate now :)

 

edit: deleted the note about wireless after reading iph's post

Edited November 8, 2004 by arthur

[iphitus]

I also edited my post and added more in an afterthought.. :P

 

As for software suspend (to disk) , the latest version also works for me too.

 

null: maybe consider an Acer? Mine is travelmate 370.

[null]

-i am not sure about the chipset stuff, but from my experience, amd-chipsets are best

yeah, I only buy AMDs for my desktops. I just didn't know if it made a diff in a laptop.

 

The support for centrino technology in linux is great

that's good to know. I saw several used laptops today with Centrinos in them.

 

avoid ATI graphics cards in lappys, they're bad enough on a desktop, let alone a lappy

yeah, I knew that about desktops, but I didn't know if it was also true for laptops. thanks.

 

thanks for all the comments about laptops. I'll check around on the linux-laptop website to pickup some more pointers before I get anything.

[iphitus]

As far as I know the linux desktop drivers dont even work for most laptops, meaning you're stuck with generic drivers :(

 

As for Linux-Laptops -- I consider it out of date. My laptop didnt appear on any of those sites for more than 8 months after it's release.

 

The IBM T series also is acclaimed for it's linux support, although a lot of people consider them way overpriced.

 

iphitus

[SoulSe]

This will get me plenty flack from some of our users - but I see no reason to not get an Apple laptop.

 

The iBook and Powerbook ranges are more sturdy, better designed and they don't come with Windows. OSX is beautiful and you could load a ppc Linux (even Mandrake) if you really wanted to.

 

Their prices are excellent at the moment and when you look at what you can get in PC laptops for the same price, you'll find that they pale in comparison.

 

Just my two cents worth... I have G4 1ghz (roughly double in PC terms) iBook and I wouldn't swop it for a PC laptop - couldn't be happier.

[iphitus]

No flack from me, those ibooks and powerbooks are great machines.

[SoulSe]

No flack from me, those ibooks and powerbooks are great machines.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Yeah, we know friendly kangaroos aren't prone to flack.

 

Just another thought I had - if you're going to go for a PC laptop, I strongly recommend getting an IBM - I've had great experiences helping friends put Linux on Thinkpads. Fantastic, sturdy laptops that are very Linux friendly.

[adamw]

The Apples are nice systems, for sure. The only bad thing I've heard about OS X is it needs piles of RAM. The only other caveat is I wouldn't buy a modern Apple laptop and expect to have Linux run on it at all usefully; support for many things in G5-class Apple laptops is currently broken in Linux, and PPC Linux is just generally a little worse all around than x86. If you go Apple, stay OS X.

 

My favourite line of laptops is a little left-field, but worth checking out if you like to turn heads ;). I own a four year old Sony Vaio C1XD which still regularly draws an impressed crowd whenever I whip it out in public (matron!) It's from Sony's venerable Picturebook line of extremely, extremely small notebooks; it's about half the size of a 12" Powerbook. It uses a widescreen format and is basically the size of its keyboard. (This also makes it great for watching widescreen movies - you get the same screen space you'd get on a much bigger classically-shaped laptop).

 

It's wonderfully supported under Linux and I've loved it ever since I got it; the difference is size is really significant and makes it much less hassle to carry around than any square laptop I've ever used.

 

Unfortunately, Sony no longer makes the Picturebook form factor. The last version released in the series was a fairly powerful machine with a 900MHz (I think) Crusoe CPU, big hard drive, 256MB RAM, Bluetooth and stuff. Mine is a P2/400(!) with 128MB of RAM (upgraded from 64MB) and I still find it perfectly fine to run XFce, so for basic desktop stuff the last made Picturebook would work great. Beyond that, a few other manufacturers (I think JVC, Fujitsu and a start-up with a very nice looking system called the Flybook) make similar systems. Sony's spiritual successor was the TR line which has in turn been succeeded by the T line; both are slightly larger, based on 10.4" widescreens as opposed to 8.9" in the Picturebook. This allows them to include an internal optical drive. They are Centrino-based systems with fast Pentium M processors and you can get them with oodles of RAM (up to 512MB). They cost a pretty penny new, but they do turn up on eBay. I've used a TR3, briefly, and loved it; I wish I could afford one.

 

A couple of other points that were mentioned - as far as Linux support goes the CPU doesn't matter at all, Linux will play happily with any CPU in a current laptop. I agree with those who say Centrino is better than AMD in the laptop arena; I love AMD on the desktop, but in laptops - especially thin and light laptops - the Centrino platform just kills it. The Pentium-M is blazing fast and very, very light on power consumption.

 

Mandrake does indeed include the ipw2100 and ipw2200 drivers for Centrino wireless, and they're confirmed to work in 10.1. If you download a free version of Mandrake you'll need to provide the firmware for the driver, as Intel refuses to release it under a free license. I think commercial versions may include the firmware, but I'm not sure. You can get the firmware from various websites or from your Windows driver CD.

 

HTH!

[imwithstupid]

my tips...

 

-apple makes nice machines but they are expensive for what you are getting...so if you don't intend to dual boot with osX don't get one. (if you like the pretty industrial design work on one get a sony viao...they are pretty)

 

-think about what you are really going to use the machine for...do you have a large at home machine you use for just about everything or will this be your primary computer? Perhaps it will just be a glorified pda for you...in which case get a lower spec machine and save $$?

 

-sometimes setting up the X windowing sys is diffucult on a laptop...but don't let that get you down. There are plenty of people out there who will help you out.

 

-getting the built in buttons on a laptop (volume, etc.) can be a PITA...but worth it

 

-if you get a tablet pc getting the tablet part to work will be a PITA...but worth it (the tablet is actually just a wacom tablet thing)

 

-test out the laptops at the stores around you...use knoppix to test out their functionality. Also, don't buy from retail stores, buy from a reputable mail order place. However, use the store to pick out what features you like and don't like (size, weight, screen, pointer, keyboard, ports, etc.)

 

-after you buy one, get a padded sleeve and not a laptop bag...if you are like me you will want to use a backpack that isn't your laptop bag from time to time and you don't want to just throw the laptop in it.

 

-keep in mind that upgrading a laptop is not as easy/cheap as upgrading a pc

 

-laptops get hot...or at least some of them do...this might suck if you want to use it in your lap for long periods of time...a burning crotch is no fun

 

-most of the port replicators manufacturers sell are a waste of money....buy yourself a cheap usb hub instead

 

-batteries don't last forever...they won't recharge an infinite number of times

 

Okay so it sounds like i don't want anyone to get a laptop. Well i'm just writting from experience about the things i think you should be aware of before getting one. None of these were real deal breakers for me. I own a dell inspiron from a few years ago and it still does me good. (probs with the dell after 4 yrs include a worn out battery that lasts 45 min, a touchpad that drifts around the screen and had to be disabled, a broken hinge which i replaced).

 

I'd say get one...just don't get one because they are 'cool'

[SoulSe]

support for many things in G5-class Apple laptops is currently broken in Linux, and PPC Linux is just generally a little worse all around than x86. If you go Apple, stay OS X.

Um... G5 Laptops don't exist yet - they are only being released next year. Right now you can only get G5 in desktops. So where exactly are you getting this from?

 

Linux runs fine on PPC, the only problems are sleep states on laptops and airport extreme doesn't have proper kernel support yet.

 

I agree that Apple desktop solutions are expensive, but for the same price as an equivalent pc laptop, I got an iBook - the laptops, especially the iBook are _very_ reasonable.