axel_2078 Posted October 29, 2004 Report Share Posted October 29, 2004 I found this post, and several others criticizing linux on www.flexbeta.net. Check out what this guy had to say. proximity Jul 18 2004, 07:06 PM Post #25 Newbie Group: Members Posts: 8 Joined: 17-July 04 Member No.: 15743 Ok, let's not look at this as some computer geeks who happen to have a PC they like to play with. I think KelpFries's arguments are very strong, seems to me that he's working in the IT like I do, am I right KelpFries? To strengthen his words you guys might want to read this ( http://www.electricnews.net/news.html?code=9406733 ): But a new Yankee Group survey of 1,000 IT administrators and C-level executives worldwide has poured cold water on Linux's most significant edge over rival OS Windows -- the fact that it costs little or nothing to use. According to the report, 90 percent of 300 large enterprises with 10,000 or more end-users indicated that a significant or total switch from Windows to Linux would be too expensive, extremely complex and would not provide any tangible gains. "In large enterprises, a significant Linux deployment or total switch from Windows to Linux would be three to four times more expensive and take three times as long to deploy as an upgrade from one version of Windows to newer Windows releases," said Laura DiDio, Yankee Group application infrastructure & software platforms senior analyst. "The instances where Linux imparts measurably improved TCO [total cost of ownership] compared with Unix and Windows are in small firms with customised vertical applications or new, greenfield networking situations." Anyways, I think we're ignoring some facts here. First of all, Windows XP Home for example is not all that expensive, I mean what's $187,99 for the Home Edition if most of us buy hardware between $1000-$2000... Software expensive? No, not at all. I can install the most wonderful machine that only costs you $187,99 for the OS and the rest will all be free, it's called freeware guys. Yes, what wonderful hey, seems that us Windows users are as spoiled as Linux users and probably with even more programs, all free! So that bullshit argument of things being free doesn't work anymore and neither does the stability issue. You must be a dumb a$$ nowadays to get Windows XP on its knees and I mean really on its knees with blue screen and all. Of course you'll need some basic understanding about the OS (bad drivers do crash the system for example you know!!), but hey, I can force a crash on Linux too when ever I people ask me to imitate an absolute Linux beginner. The whole poll is stupid, because let's be honest, how many of those who voted for Linux still have a Windows operating system in use... And that's the whole point. Windows has everything to offer, Linux not, it's great for server, but for workstations it sucks, not only at home but also at work. I think KelpFries explained it very well in his post! I don't say Windows is perfect, but there is a good reason why almost the whole bloody world is still using Windows and MacOS on their desktop computer. It's really shortsighted that some Linux apostels think that the whole world one day will have Linux running on the servers and desktops and that everything will be free and that we all will have worldwide Linux standards... yeah right! ha! Excuse me, but they need to do a reality check and maybe look around in society to see how people make money and can be succesful Windows and MacOS rule the desktop world, simple as that and Linux doesn't come even close and don't be so silly to ask me why that is, because every experienced computer user knows why! Linux might be very good for server, but even in this area it can't beat Windows; Microsoft still has the lead in the server market and that lead is still increasing, whether you want to believe it or not! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iphitus Posted October 29, 2004 Report Share Posted October 29, 2004 Can't convert everyone, not everyone will listen There are just as many windows zealots as Linux zealots, and trying to convert some of them to Linux is as easy as me trying to persuade aru or Linus to use windows only. Aint happening Isnt choice a lovely thing :D iphitus Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
arthur Posted October 29, 2004 Report Share Posted October 29, 2004 $189 is nothing? he's too ignorant that 3 billion other people, maybe more, don't have that kind of resources. therefore his words hold no authority whatsoever. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SpikeyKlitske Posted October 29, 2004 Report Share Posted October 29, 2004 Well if u are happy to pay €189 for an operating system u are very well of with Microsoft and i am sure that price will go up dramatically in the next few years so it will only become better for him Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leo Posted October 29, 2004 Report Share Posted October 29, 2004 $189 is nothing? he's too ignorant that 3 billion other people, maybe more, don't have that kind of resources. therefore his words hold no authority whatsoever. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> I would disagree, his opinions count as much as anyone elses (regardless of the authors ignorance) however the statement says more about the author than the choice of operating system. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ixthusdan Posted October 29, 2004 Report Share Posted October 29, 2004 The whole total cost of ownership thing is baseless. I administrated a small network of 50 work stations and teo servers. The cost of doing business with ms was enormous! If his company thinks that $190 is nothing, then he certainly does not have my accounting department! I don't know of any enterprises of any size relying on freeware. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DragonMage Posted October 29, 2004 Report Share Posted October 29, 2004 If 180 dollars is nothing for him.. I suggest he donated it to those needy people in Indonesia, where you can feed a family for a month with it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fangbite Posted October 29, 2004 Report Share Posted October 29, 2004 Its people like that which make me shake my head. He is correct that it is difficult to switch to linux. Might even cost more in some rare instances, but what this guy fails to understand is the limitations of XP Home. XP Home is worthless for a business if it uses a domain because XP Home doesn't use a domain, trust me I've tried it at my work place. The problem with linux still is that with many of its distros, there is a steep learning curve. Where I work, it'd be riotous to just switch to another OS. Thats why I prescribe the following: Wean the people off of windows. Instead of microsoft office, load in open office. Instead of IE, use Mozilla. People will learn with these tools a small curve and soon will be as good as they are with the microsoft items. Then when vitually all programs are linux originals, give them a linux distro. Teach them how to do the basics on it and stuff. With the programs out of the way, learning the few nuiances like where your stuff is stored is rather simple (since very few people do anything but word processing and email at my workplace). Help the people out with anything else they might want to do. The problem with microsoft's numbers is that they use the most favorable situation for them, and the least for Linux. Hardly unexpected, but a little dishonest. Yah its gonna cost for a few years, a person is stupid not to think that. But in the long run, think of the money you'd save on upgrades, programs, and IT maintanence. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
arctic Posted October 29, 2004 Report Share Posted October 29, 2004 the funny thing is that the guys tell only half the truth and/or obviously lie (maybe due to ignorance?) Microsoft still has the lead in the server market and that lead is still increasing, whether you want to believe it or not! errrm... opposite way. linux-servers are advancing fast. they started at 0% and already make up between 20-25% of the market, wether the windows-users like it or not. windows at the same time lost over of its % server market. also: switching to linux might be more expensive at the beginning but almost every research (except those sponsored by microsoft) showed that the following costs are higher with windows due to licensing and teaching, as windows completely redesigns its products in a (more or less) stable time-circle. the change from one app version to another is less drastic in a linux-environment. especially in gnome, where we take advantage of HIG. ;) i have read so many of these "stupid" posts that i am already immune to such flaming. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
solarian Posted October 29, 2004 Report Share Posted October 29, 2004 and all these studies tell about switching to Linux, so to me it seems a sane choice to already start with Linux! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darkelve Posted October 29, 2004 Report Share Posted October 29, 2004 Maybe he just wants a job in the M$ marketing department... couldn't imagine why though... maybe for the benefites? Hmmm... lemme think: - free coffee? - free viruses and spyware? - free virus checkers, popup blockers, spyware checkers, half-assed firewalls and a mail scanner so his computer can crawl to a halt? - free network downtime due to windoze DHCP servers and authentication mechanisms not quite up to the job? - free MSCE's to come and solve your problem, then as they go away leave an even bigger mess? - free motivational sessions from Ballmer? - free as in freedom? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
arthur Posted October 30, 2004 Report Share Posted October 30, 2004 $189 is nothing? he's too ignorant that 3 billion other people, maybe more, don't have that kind of resources. therefore his words hold no authority whatsoever. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> I would disagree, his opinions count as much as anyone elses (regardless of the authors ignorance) however the statement says more about the author than the choice of operating system. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> he is entitled to his opinion, but his opinion holds no authority due to his ignorance. that's what i meant. everybody is entitled to their opinion, but whose opinion holds most authority is a different matter altogether. btw, he was talking about $189 being one-time investment, the rest being freeware...does he know that many of those things are under GPL (Bloodshed dev C++, OOo)? and I don't think I can operate a Windows system entirely on freeware. Maybe he's a software pirate. that would even be worse. but let's not make speculations... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Urza9814 Posted October 30, 2004 Report Share Posted October 30, 2004 He's got his numbers wrong...imma be building me a new comp...and a new copy of 'Blows XP would add an extra 50+% of the price of this whole comp. You call that cheap??? I can barely afford the comp alone! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sellis Posted October 30, 2004 Report Share Posted October 30, 2004 Laura Didio is a MS (and SCO) cheerleader, often picked apart on sites like Groklaw. Few in the FOSS community now take her seriously, although she is inexplicably still plying her trade in Forbes and other mainstream magazines. There is a grain of truth in what the author is saying, though. For a MS-trained person, Linux is different and therefore scary and difficult at times. However, the same problems would occur if everyone used Linux and MS was trying to displace a large entrenched user base. I believe that we are near a tipping point, for two reasons. First, there are a large number of people in the developing world who are only just seeing their first computer. There is no migration cost for them, so Linux is very attractive. Many of these regimes (China, for example) are also politically motivated not be in thrall to the Beast of Redmond. Second, the balance is tipping for existing MS users too. Linux is getting easier and easier to use for the average user (case study: my wife uses Mandrake 10.0 to buy things on the web with no problems, worse luck). Also, sysadmins and users are getting fed up with MS licensing terms and security problems, and are beginning to seriously consider alternatives. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sarissi Posted November 2, 2004 Report Share Posted November 2, 2004 I rely on Linux for all of my internet needs. Linux grows on you, and that is what these FUDomites fear most: Try it and like it. Then love it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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