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Mandrake Club


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Back on topic, about this 'all software should be free' nonsense....

 

1) you should not used any closed source driver

2) nor any closed source en-/decoder - think: win32-codecs

3) nor run any proprietary games

 

With this mentality, while not bad or nonsense, you get nowhere.

 

Now, even worse is the nonsense of free as in gratis.

 

What is the point of a distribution? Well, it is to make it easy for people to USE Linux. Else we'd have to all build Linux from scratch, right?

 

Next: if people invest time and effort to create such a distribution, can they ask for a reward?

Sure. If they allow you to say: no, not from me, and they still make it available to you, this is fine.

They can also not ask for a financial reward. Their choice.

 

Mandrake does the former. You can get their packaged goods (most of them, all that you need) without paying a dime. More importantly, it's also all Free Software (notice the capitalisation there).

 

Lastly, compared to the more free and not buyable distributions, Mandrake is doing loads more and is being lots more successful to get linux around, not just via the net but on PC's you can buy in the shops. I believe that this is the way to go, as I've said before: preinstalled preconfigured is the spot to be.

 

So, Mandrake is making more widespread use possible.

In this way, Mandrake is instrumental to get a large userbase. And that is what counts most at the moment.

 

It is fine to stick to your princples, but you have to realise that few people share those, and we, the FLOSS/Linux community need more marketshare for Linux, to be able to get compatible hardware and to get more and better software.

 

For me, Mandrake is still the best, since I can recommend it to friends, colleagues etc and just get one message back: nice stuff, this Linux....

They prefer to pay for the added comfort, and even more they like that they don't have to pay.

Smaller linux distros are fine, but that makes it harder to find answers if you need them, and beginners sure need them.

 

Which ever way to turn it, we need marketshare, and Mandrakelinux is there to help that happen. So, to reward those that make things easy to use (and spread) with a couple of bucks really isn't that much.

 

Lastly: you say that it all should be free as in gratis, but don't you agree that Linus should eat and feed his wife and kids too?

Same goes for all other professional FLOSS developers.

Next to that, you need webspace, ftp sites and such. Somewhere there are bills.

 

Personally, Free is more important than gratis, and if it helps if I pay for Free, than that's fine.

 

BTW Lowe, you are wrong on more levels than you realise, when you write stuff like:

" i really think all open source software should be free. And having a club only thing is kind of silly,"

sorry, you can get all open source stuff of Mandrake from a large selection of ftp-mirrors.

The club is for those who support Mandrake. And I for one am really happy it exists, because it lets people put their money where their mouth is, and keeps the freeloaders out. Good riddance.

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And I for one am really happy it exists, because it lets people put their money where their mouth is, and keeps the freeloaders out. Good riddance.

:o you were doing great til this. What happened? I thought you said

Mandrake does the former. You can get their packaged goods (most of them, all that you need) without paying a dime. More importantly, it's also all Free Software (notice the capitalisation there).

 

 

so which is it? ;)

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Firstly, why should all software be free?

Lets say my company want to develop some software that does something noone else ever did. Should that be given away for free....

If so who is going to pay the programmers or should they work for free too.

 

Lets say I need a programme that controls a extremely tedious business process.

How might I interest free programmers to write it?

 

Ah the age old concept of work....

 

Whatis important is open formats...

lets say I make a program that burns CD's....

If I ignore the standards (like iso) and instead make one called .nrg then Im perverting standards...

I can make a closed source program that burns CD's and so long as it sticks to standards people are free to buy it or not...

if its better than free software people will buy it if not they won't but making formats that lock people in even when its not the best is bad.

 

By sticking to standards, opensource is allowed to compete...

 

Now as to mandrake club.

This is just typical mandrake marketing.

They refuse to say whats on the Cd's and mainly its like everyione says and nothing cant be got free. Most of it is trial versions anyway??? The feeling many get after buyig mandrake and then having a problem is to go to mandrake club and try and get help then find out you need to pay.

 

If this reminds you of anyone it is Microsoft.

 

the big difference is Mandrake have a good solid product they give away from free and try and only sell the smoke and mirrors

 

Its just MHO but if they instead charged for Official and allowed Community to be downloaded people would know what they are getting....

Buying mandrake club is a negative experience cause it gives you nothing tangible. As human beings we like to see reward and we already have the reward for free.

 

The problem is not going away ... in reality view it as paying for something you already have.... and shoulda paid for the first time... but it remains and always will a turn-off for new mandrake users.

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Ok thank you guys for informing me. I may still do it. I love mandrake linux, but when I'm told I'm going to get something, (I wonder where it said I'd get commercial software with the club payment) I want to know what I'm getting so I don't feel cheated. If i know I'm not getting anything immediate out of it, then I'm fine with that.

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And I for one am really happy it exists, because it lets people put their money where their mouth is, and keeps the freeloaders out. Good riddance.

:o you were doing great til this. What happened? I thought you said

Mandrake does the former. You can get their packaged goods (most of them, all that you need) without paying a dime. More importantly, it's also all Free Software (notice the capitalisation there).

 

so which is it? ;)

 

At least I was doing well until the last line.... :lol2:

My point was: the clubmembers get to criticise Mandrakesoft and tell what they want, not just everyone. Look at the club-chat with Francois Bancilhon last week, that was great (though I missed it).

Freeloaders are fine, as long as they shut up. Freeloaders telling everyone that freeloading is the right thing to do are not OK imho.

More importantly: you cannot criticise Mandrakesoft for not giving all products away for free, even if they give all relevant things away for free with a delay.

 

If you believe in Free Software, you should support that in every way you can. This includes things like helping people migrate, but also possibly send money to those who work hard at it. This can be the EFF, Mandrakesoft or whatever. Please, don't send money to those who are not committed to Free Software (those distributions that create lock-in by keeping additions closed source).

 

 

Now as to mandrake club. 

This is just typical mandrake marketing. 

They refuse to say whats on the Cd's and mainly its like everyione says and nothing cant be got free.  Most of it is trial versions anyway??? The feeling many get after buyig mandrake and then having a problem is to go to mandrake club and try and get help then find out you need to pay. 

 

If this reminds you of anyone it is Microsoft. 

 

Ehm, no, it reminds me of any company with less than excellent marketing. Howabout Linspire? Click'NRun anyone?

Or any other such deal..... too many examples, all around...

 

the big difference is Mandrake have a good solid product they give away from free and try and only sell the smoke and mirrors

 

Its just MHO but if they instead charged for Official and allowed Community to be downloaded people would know what they are getting....

 

I would possibly stop using Mandrake if they started doing that. I want the final product to be available. Not just the RC's and CE's. Mandrake should not become the next RH.

It's really good that they make CE and OE available with a delay. This keeps clubmembers happy - they (we) feel that they are in a special position, sort of a thankyou for your financial support from Mandrake.

 

Since the point is to have CE spread out outside the club for more exposure, it should become available around 2 weeks after clubmember release. Then they should take 6 to 8 weeks to fix any issue (major bugs) and release OE to clubmembers, get the packs in the shops and the preinstalled systems ready to go, then a few weeks to over a month later release the iso's to the general public.

Actually, in this I thought the execution of 10.0 went really really well. IMHO, exactly how it should be.

 

Buying mandrake club is a negative experience cause it gives you nothing tangible.  As human beings we like to see reward and we already have the reward for free. 

 

The problem is not going away ... in reality view it as paying for something you already have.... and shoulda paid for the first time... but it remains and always will a turn-off for new mandrake users.

 

That's just because Mandrakesoft is bad at marketing. The club doesn't give anything tangible? Howabout the 2 computers with mdk10.1ce installed that I have?

Note: upgrading (as usual) doesn't work properly, due to changes from devfs to udev is my guess.

 

BTW making love without making a baby also doesn't really give you anything tangible. Never got me the feeling it was a negative experience though...

:P

 

Paying for something you already have? No, consider it paying after enjoying your meal at a nice restaurant (if you really want to, compare it to the tip).

If you have complaints, inform the waiter about them (http://qa.mandrakesoft.com) and see if he manages to make you happy with the next course.

 

I don't know about others, but when I feel that I have been well served, I tip more. With bad service I tip less or nothing. (Note: I am in Europe, talking about countries where tipping is optional and serving personnel actually gets a normal salary.)

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Tipping is a good analogy :D

Im just pointing out that in fact you have the product and if you like it then tip... but remember you already had the product.

 

I dont have a problem with OE being pay, I think since CE is obvuously unstable/bleeding edge it should be free and the idea you have to pay for it at the sanme cost as OE seems bizarre. I have to pay the same to be a beta tester (albeit a long beta)

 

the delay aspect for me is in the stable version... everone tests the CE for free and once its ready then I see no reason to give it away so long as its just an evolution based on stable parts of CE....

A good idea would be making the previous OE available for free ....

 

OE should then come boxed, wirh manuals etc. and that is the product being paid for.

 

 

It seems the whole world except mandrake agree their marketing sucks...

but the analogy with click n run is just wrong.

Click n run is 95%+ free software - only the commerical stuff is charged for (staroffice/DVD legal playback etc.)

Critics seem to miss this point, perhaps becuase click n run shows paid software more prominantly but its still there.....for instance even though they sell StarOffice they still have OO for Free.

 

The problem with mansdrake's marketing is they make you feel like your dealing with MS. You or i mightknow they are just incompetent in business practice but noobies don't.

If they charge you $6000 instead of $60 then the first hing you think is fraud...

when they dont even give contact addresses or telephone numbers then it looks worse.

 

When I bought bad CD's Mandrake expressed no interest at all. I emailed them asking for help or exchange and they sent a email back saying to join mandrake club!! Given I had no home internet access this was a somewhat pointless and thoughtless gesture...and the sort of thing MS would do...

 

incidentally Ive been a free loader ever since.....

 

Mandrake marketing and customer support converted me from a long time paying customer to freeloader over this issue. Nothing you can say will make any difference, Mandrake will not recieve a cent of my money until they apologise and change my CD's. (even though I got a free copy from a magazine (well 5 euros) )

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