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Guest Linux24

Sorry for this post. I should have read some other articles first. Looks like it is a common problem with Linux that kernels are released without any regard at all as to drivers that vendors are providing and whether or not the kernel will work with drivers or wipe them out.

 

So the answer is "stick with what you have working and never upgrade your kernel unless you are a professional programmer and can compile it yourself" where Linux is concerned.

 

Meaning, I never get a security update for my OS if I want to keep using it.

 

 

Mod note: I have split this from a hardware post to this area, a more appropriate discussion forum. Everyone be polite with your responses. Consider it an educational opportunity!

 

Ixthusdan

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For what it's worth, I have used linux for several years, and my Mandrake 10 is also rewriting files that it should leave alone. I also could not get the latest kernel to work with the nvidia drivers.

 

As far as linux vs windex, I guess you have never had to replace hardware /software after an xp upgrade! Or you have never had to re-register your system because you chose to upgrade your hardware. (Otherwise, your system won't work!) This sis computers. Stuff happens. At least with linux, it is not a deliberate attempt to tell you what to do with your computer. With Redmond, it is all about world domination!! B)

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Guest Linux24
For what it's worth, I have used linux for several years, and my Mandrake 10 is also rewriting files that it should leave alone. I also could not get the latest kernel to work with the nvidia drivers.

 

Thanks. It's good to know it isn't just me. Since my Mandrake 10.0 was hosed, I figured I would try out 10.1 Beta. I installed it using the upgrade option, and then it wouldn't even boot. LOL!

 

Compared to a Windows upgrade it's a total joke. I guess it should be expected to be so, since obviously the amounts of money a Mandrake release is worth pales in comparison to the amount of money a Mac or Win release generates.

 

As far as linux vs windex, I guess you have never had to replace hardware /software after an xp upgrade! Or you have never had to re-register your system because you chose to upgrade your hardware. (Otherwise, your system won't work!)

 

I work in IT and have had to do Windows support for a long time. I hate product activation keys (corps just get a version that lets them bypass this usually), and the anti-piracy nonsense in Longhorn looks like it will be even worse.

 

I've done lots of replacing of hardware on Win PC's. I have never had Windows totally puke on me because of a hardware upgrade before, as long as I had drivers, but I avoided the driver-poor NT and Win 2000 and waited for XP before I moved up from Win98.

 

Linux has a long way to go to play catch up with Windoze when it comes to some key ingredients:

 

1. Downloading and installing drivers or shareware must be made consistent, simple, and must never depend on compiling or maintaining copies of source code. There should always be a user-friendly option, otherwise, it's just niche hobbyist stuff and not really a valid competitor. If you have to type "make", or even go to a command line to execute a file name or make something executable, the installation routine stinks by today's standards.

 

2. kernel upgrades must not break drivers and programs (in Linux, it seems to be the rule that they always do) and must be possible to perform with a soft reboot followed by everything "just working." If Linux can't do this, then it needs to change, because today, security updates are constant and must be fast and easy.

 

3. Multimedia applications must open all sorts of files and "just work" without having to recompile libraries.

 

This sis computers. Stuff happens. At least with linux, it is not a deliberate attempt to tell you what to do with your computer. With Redmond, it is all about world domination!! B)

 

I grant you that, but as an end user, I don't care about the "why." I only care about the results. I want to use my computer to do stuff, not make people feel better about their computer usage. For that, my computer must do stuff, and Linux doesn't just do stuff.

 

Don't get me wrong, I love tinkering with it, but there is no way I will deploy this crap in an office full of people. Evolution crashes on startup 33% of the time, you have to understand a command line just to upgrade your browser version, and installing patches and updates is outrageously complicated and requires too much expertise. And as a result, support staff must be paid too much money.

 

In the end, I actually save money by paying Redmond's outrageous prices and putting up with a monopoly.

 

Linux development must address this. It looks like they are trying, but they are moving too slow, and not resolving critical issues. There are 15 media players for Linux, but not one of them works right out of the box.

 

There are other problems too. Gnome is working on "spatial browsing". That's idiotic. That's just what Windows 95 did ten years ago - open a new window with every folder you double click. I turn that off and use just one window, but now Gnome is going to do it too? Why is there an Epiphany browser? It is basically as functionless and ugly as Mosaic .99 was, and here we are ten years later when people are using tabbed browsers in windows that block popups. Epiphany is a failed project and should be dumped. Just bundle Mozilla.

 

Likewise, Konqueror is just a cheap, off-brand attempt to copy MS Window's use of the browser rendering engine to display everything in a web-way. But that was just a fad and is now over, and people largely turn it off, and yet Linux developers are still trying to make it work. And Konqueror is not a good web browser either. It is clunky and lacks just about every feature you can think of.

 

I have no idea why Wine is bundled. Nothing seems to work properly under Wine. I certainly wouldn't trust it to be stable enough to work on important documents using it to get to office software or even to check my email through it. It seems to exist just as a selling point for people leaving Windows. To me, the existence of Wine is a milestone that marks the failure of Linux development to truly offer equivalent, alternative software.

 

Linux needs work. Lots of work. I'm whining, but I'm also doing my part. I've got a beta installation and I've started bombing Mandrake with bug reports. I've donated by joining the Mandrake club. I want them to succeed, but it just seems like their development roadmap is out of date and about to become irrelevant.

 

I'm frustrated, because I not only want to leave Windows behind, I'd like to convince others to do the same, and enjoy the inherent power of Linux, but I can't do that the way things are going.

 

This is way off topic. Sorry for bleating like a sheep. I'll shut up now.

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bvc is in bold.....sorry, I'm in a hurry

 

Compared to a Windows upgrade it's a total joke. I guess it should be expected to be.....

since upgrades shouldn't even exist ;)

 

 

I've done lots of replacing of hardware on Win PC's. I have never had Windows totally puke on me because of a hardware upgrade before, as long as I had drivers, but I avoided the driver-poor NT and Win 2000 and waited for XP before I moved up from Win98.

hmmm, I've put my hd w/ 5 distros on it, popped it in another box, and all was well. Put it in a friend pc to....no problem. Sounds like you got an end user problem to me. ;)

 

Linux has a long way to go to play catch up with Windoze when it comes to some key ingredients:

 

1. Downloading and installing drivers or shareware must be made consistent, simple, and must never depend on compiling or maintaining copies of source code. There should always be a user-friendly option, otherwise, it's just niche hobbyist stuff and not really a valid competitor. If you have to type "make", or even go to a command line to execute a file name or make something executable, the installation routine stinks by today's standards.

if you learn how to utilizr the contrib and plf repos, just about anything is available in the gui rpmdrake. If that's not good enoungn, there an rpm for rh for any pkg. Download and click it. ;) Done.....see? .....not so hard, eh?

 

 

 

2. kernel upgrades must not break drivers and programs (in Linux, it seems to be the rule that they always do) and must be possible to perform with a soft reboot followed by everything "just working." If Linux can't do this, then it needs to change, because today, security updates are constant and must be fast and easy.

When is that last time you upgraded your win kernel :lol: ;)

 

 

3. Multimedia applications must open all sorts of files and "just work" without having to recompile libraries.

Again, all works here, and I haven't compiled a thing ;)

 

 

Don't get me wrong, I love tinkering with it, but there is no way I will deploy this crap in an office full of people. Evolution crashes on startup 33% of the time, you have to understand a command line just to upgrade your browser version, and installing patches and updates is outrageously complicated and requires too much expertise. And as a result, support staff must be paid too much money.

Again, all works here, and I haven't compiled a thing or do anything from cli ;)

 

 

In the end, I actually save money by paying Redmond's outrageous prices and putting up with a monopoly.

:unsure:

 

 

Linux development must address this. It looks like they are trying, but they are moving too slow, and not resolving critical issues. There are 15 media players for Linux, but not one of them works right out of the box.

you got me on that one.....pretty sad!

 

 

There are other problems too. Gnome is working on "spatial browsing". That's idiotic. That's just what Windows 95 did ten years ago - open a new window with every folder you double click. I turn that off and use just one window, but now Gnome is going to do it too? Why is there an Epiphany browser? It is basically as functionless and ugly as Mosaic .99 was, and here we are ten years later when people are using tabbed browsers in windows that block popups. Epiphany is a failed project and should be dumped. Just bundle Mozilla.

you can either turn it off and browse by default, or rt-click the folder and select browse folder. After using it a while I actually like it. I have the best of both worlds depending on what I need to do.

 

Epiphany is hands down the best browser I've ever used, Oh, except opera, but I don't do kde, but it is the fastest by far. It has tabs, in fact wheel-clicking a link opens in a tab B) :P .......blocks pop ups to.

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I haven't the time to answer your points but most things you raise are can be explained by your lack of knowledge about Mandrake and Linux.

 

You must be prepared to learn some new tricks when you begin with Linux and most people here are quite happy to help you along the way.

 

If you want Mandrake to be the same as Windows you will always be disappointed. If you want a better OS (yes really, Mandrake is better then Windows) spend some time and effort in learning a new trick or 2. :)

Edited by devries
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Let's get at the real issue, shall we? :D

 

First, the "current trend" in computers as you are putting it only exists in a microsoft world, where the security of your system has been sacrificed for so-called convenience! An operating system does not know that Flash is updating my system, vs some kid in arizona trashing my computer for the fun of it. The ease of installation thing is a myth, or a lie, I can't decide which.

 

Second, while I like instant drivers, ones compiled on my system are better. That is, they are better if one understands computers! For microsoft, computers should only be made by their authorized agents. For the rest of the industry, whoever wants to make hardware does it! This means that there are subtle and sometimes significant differences in hardware, that an operating system has no business dictating. The driver is the com device between the os and the hardware. If I wanted it any other way, I'd buy mac, certainly not ms! At least mac is good at restrictive hardware. MS is not.

 

Finally, If you have experience with ms and administration, then surely you are familiar with the continual odd issues that crop up, not just the BSOD and the Black Screen of the Abyss. The ideal windows world is a myth. Everyone in IT knows that, unless you write articles in ms magazines! :D

 

I'll agree that the upgrade option doesn't work. I also have issues with Mandrake as far as their marketing and distribution model. But I will not in any way suggest that we all should complacently allow the windex myth to continue. At least not on boards like this one. :P

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*takes a deep breath*

 

Thanks. It's good to know it isn't just me. Since my Mandrake 10.0 was hosed, I figured I would try out 10.1 Beta. I installed it using the upgrade option, and then it wouldn't even boot. LOL!

Upgrades are bad, and so are betas. Did you get Mandrake 10.0 Official Edition? How did it get hosed? Did you try to fix it?

 

Compared to a Windows upgrade it's a total joke. I guess it should be expected to be so, since obviously the amounts of money a Mandrake release is worth pales in comparison to the amount of money a Mac or Win release generates.

Oh wow. ever done a Windows upgrade? I tried upgrading from ME to XP, my system broke. I've upgraded Mandrake without a hitch, not sure why so many people have trouble. I guess it's just luck of the draw, eh? Welcome to the computer world.

 

 

1. Downloading and installing drivers or shareware must be made consistent, simple, and must never depend on compiling or maintaining copies of source code. There should always be a user-friendly option, otherwise, it's just niche hobbyist stuff and not really a valid competitor. If you have to type "make", or even go to a command line to execute a file name or make something executable, the installation routine stinks by today's standards.

Unfortunately many vendors don't support Linux, and so we are forced to make our own drivers. Many drivers are included in the kernel and work out of the box (try that with windows) but some are not. But I guess we should expect all those people writing drivers in their spare time (read: they do it because they want to and don't get paid) to package everything up all nice and neat.

 

OR we could push hardware vendors to support Linux.

 

2. kernel upgrades must not break drivers and programs (in Linux, it seems to be the rule that they always  do) and must be possible to perform with a soft reboot followed by everything "just working." If Linux can't do this, then it needs to change, because today, security updates are constant and must be fast and easy.

Whenever I installed Windows XP over ME I had to upgrade my drivers because they broke. I hear Windows XP SP2 breaks quite a few programs. This isn't some Linux thing, this is what happens when programs and kernels get changed, things break.

 

3. Multimedia applications must open all sorts of files and "just work" without having to recompile libraries.

do your research at all? adding PLF to your software sources in Mandrake Control Center will allow you to easily find, download, and install (with a GUI!!) support for almost every single media format out there. I guess the fact that the reasons formats such as WMA, DVD, and Quicktime don't play out of the box (er, download, I'm guessing...) due to licensing issues by those holding the rights wouldn't matter to you.

 

Evolution crashes on startup 33% of the time,

sounds like a bug, talk to Mandrake at all?

 

you have to understand a command line just to upgrade your browser version, and installing patches and updates is outrageously complicated and requires too much expertise.

Have you tried Mandrake Control Center -> Software -> Updates? Sounds like you missed that...

 

In the end, I actually save money by paying Redmond's outrageous prices and putting up with a monopoly.
Don't believe the FUD, man. Try looking at Mandrake Control Center, it seems like you completely missed it.

 

There are 15 media players for Linux, but not one of them works right out of the box.
See previously mentioned licensing issues. It's not the fault of those making the media players, they don't get paid to do it and don't have money to be a license to support certain formats.

 

Why is there an Epiphany browser? It is basically as functionless and ugly as Mosaic .99 was, and here we are ten years later when people are using tabbed browsers in windows that block popups. Epiphany is a failed project and should be dumped. Just bundle Mozilla.

Mozilla is bundled, and Epiphany is part of GNOME just like Konquerer is part of KDE and IE (the worst browser in the world) is part of Windows.

 

 

I have no idea why Wine is bundled. Nothing seems to work properly under Wine. I certainly wouldn't trust it to be stable enough to work on important documents using it to get to office software or even to check my email through it. It seems to exist just as a selling point for people leaving Windows. To me, the existence of Wine is a milestone that marks the failure of Linux development to truly offer equivalent, alternative software.
Wine isn't an alternative to Office or Windows. Wine is an attempt to allow people to run certain windows programs under Linux. If you want an alternative to MS Office, try OpenOffice. It doesn't exist as a selling point for people leaving windows, it exists because some guys decided to write it. For fun. For free. Just Because.

 

It seems like you don't understand a few things:

1) Many of these programs are written by people in their spare time because they want to do it. They don't get paid. Because they don't get paid, they don't have the money to pay for licenses so that they can support many formats such as WMA, DVD, and the like.

 

2) Linux isn't about beating Microsoft, it's about giving people choice and freedom. We could care less if we "win", we just want to have the ability to choose something else.

 

3) Rants will get you no where but on peoples black lists on this board. It's not somewhere you want to be. People don't like those who bash Linux while appearing to not have done the proper research. Many of the things you complain about make it appear as if you have no idea that Mandrake Control Center is, or what a repository is, or...or...

 

blah. I've wasted enough typing time.

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Thanks. It's good to know it isn't just me. Since my Mandrake 10.0 was hosed, I figured I would try out 10.1 Beta. I installed it using the upgrade option, and then it wouldn't even boot. LOL!

....

 

hem... you know what a beta is ok ? A Beta don't work properly. Well it works like a Beta, that means still has some bugs waiting for you to be discovered and reported. :P

Complaining about a beta is simply not logical.

Worse: be aware that even with stable release, upgrade are .. well debatable for most of people. That was widely discussed why put an upgrade that works ... well not perfectly for most but that's an other debate. There is other simple and quite fast way to upgrade doing a clean install.

Anyway, good luck, take your time, practice and all the trouble will be forgotten.

bye

roland

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I work in IT and have had to do Windows support for a long time. I hate product activation keys (corps just get a version that lets them bypass this usually), and the anti-piracy nonsense in Longhorn looks like it will be even worse.

 

I've done lots of replacing of hardware on Win PC's. I have never had Windows totally puke on me because of a hardware upgrade before, as long as I had drivers, but I avoided the driver-poor NT and Win 2000 and waited for XP before I moved up from Win98.

 

It sounds like you not only work in IT but are responsible for choosing the OSes your company runs. Although for the life of me why anyone would keep with 98 over 2k is beyond me (or indeed replace 2k with XP).

 

1. Downloading and installing drivers or shareware must be made consistent, simple, and must never depend on compiling or maintaining copies of source code. There should always be a user-friendly option, otherwise, it's just niche hobbyist stuff and not really a valid competitor. If you have to type "make", or even go to a command line to execute a file name or make something executable, the installation routine stinks by today's standards.

 

Most drivers come in precompiled binaries. Also How can you work in IT and never use a CLI? I have worked in IT on numerous systems for a lot of years. None of them were workable without reference to the command line. I include WinXP and Win2k in that. Certainly 98.

 

You do recognise that not making things executable off the bat stops users from installing malware or inappropriate software right?

 

2. kernel upgrades must not break drivers and programs (in Linux, it seems to be the rule that they always  do) and must be possible to perform with a soft reboot followed by everything "just working." If Linux can't do this, then it needs to change, because today, security updates are constant and must be fast and easy.

 

Security updates can easily be done via urpmi (which even has a pretty graphical interface). You rarely need to upgrade the kernel or make alterations to it. Most businesses and home users have little need for a custom kernel.

 

P.S. Rebooting for a kernel change -sure. Rebooting for installing software - you must be joking

 

3. Multimedia applications must open all sorts of files and "just work" without having to recompile libraries.

 

All sorts? Really? How does Win Media Player handle quicktime these days? Last time I checked it did not handle it at all well. Except for older versions of quicktime. Doesn't like ogg vorbis much either. With the windows players you still have to install codecs. How is this any different?

 

 

 

Don't get me wrong, I love tinkering with it, but there is no way I will deploy this crap in an office full of people. Evolution crashes on startup 33% of the time

 

Doesn't force a reboot though does it?

 

you have to understand a command line just to upgrade your browser version, and installing patches and updates is outrageously complicated and requires too much expertise. And as a result, support staff must be paid too much money.

 

That first is simply nonsense and I think you know it. Patches and upgrades are NOT difficult at all. Support staff huh.

 

Lemme tell you a story. A true one. I worked for a major institution. I worked with one other guy. We administered Solaris and RH. There were roughly as many machines running those as Windows. They had to employ 12 people as support for windows. There were run off their little feet. We mostly played BZFlag. We did get paid a little more - our skills were transferable to most *nixes without too much trouble. they had to retrain almost from scratch if MS so much as changed the GUI. They cost a whole lot more than we did.

 

In the end, I actually save money by paying Redmond's outrageous prices and putting up with a monopoly.

 

Nonsense. See above.

 

Linux development must address this. It looks like they are trying, but they are moving too slow, and not resolving critical issues. There are 15 media players for Linux, but not one of them works right out of the box.

 

Slowly? On which planet? There are more updates and upgrades available for Linux than any other OS I have ever seen. Those media players. Work. Easily. No problems.

 

There are other problems too. Gnome is working on "spatial browsing". That's idiotic. That's just what Windows 95 did ten years ago - open a new window with every folder you double click. I turn that off and use just one window, but now Gnome is going to do it too? Why is there an Epiphany browser? It is basically as functionless and ugly as Mosaic .99 was, and here we are ten years later when people are using tabbed browsers in windows that block popups. Epiphany is a failed project and should be dumped. Just bundle Mozilla.

 

You did actually look at the browsers right? I use Firefox, but I like Epiphany. I think you misunderstand what the Gnome project is looking to do.

 

Likewise, Konqueror is just a cheap, off-brand attempt to copy MS Window's use of the browser rendering engine to display everything in a web-way. But that was just a fad and is now over, and people largely turn it off, and yet Linux developers are still trying to make it work. And Konqueror is not a good web browser either. It is clunky and lacks just about every feature you can think of.

 

Yup. Konqueror is so bad that Apple used it as the base for Safari - which is a shit-hot browser. What features are you looking for? ActiveX that allows remote installation of software? Multiple windows instead of tabbed browsing?

 

I have no idea why Wine is bundled. Nothing seems to work properly under Wine. I certainly wouldn't trust it to be stable enough to work on important documents using it to get to office software or even to check my email through it. It seems to exist just as a selling point for people leaving Windows. To me, the existence of Wine is a milestone that marks the failure of Linux development to truly offer equivalent, alternative software.

 

There is great alternative software for pretty much any useful Windows app can think of. With the possible exception of Photoshop. Then again, anyone running Photoshop on anything but a Mac is insane (and probably not a pro designer - hence I question their need for something as powerful as Photoshop). Wine is (IMO) useful for running some of my older games. I do not even have a windows partition. If I desperately want to run something native and not ported or replaced I use wine. Without trouble.

 

I am sorry if this comes over as a little harsh. I just think you need to investigate the option a little further

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okay, here goes my irrelevant opinion.

 

1. using a beta ... no comment on this one. :lol:

 

2. upgrading windows was always a horror. i updated win95 to 98, result: total crash that needed complete reinstall. upgraded 98 to ME, system got destroyed again. and as a further plus, windows managed it three times to kill itself, deleting the windows folder. it was NOT a virus, NOR a trojan, simply a damn windows-bug. i never expereienced this kind of problems in linux.

 

3. downloading and installing should be consistent, but it can only be consistent for one distro. a source-based distro will likely never switch to rpms and vice versa. but if you look at rpm-based distros, where is the problem? right-click, install via rpmdrake, done. in windows, what do i have? three or four different installers that quite often crash on install for no apparent reason. and then, try to uninstall the stuff again. it leaves your system like swiss cheese and the registry gets peppered with junk, thus slowing down the machine. repair is nearly only possible with extra software (with maybe another weird installer). :wacko:

 

4. every multimedia application that i wanted to use (except for wmv-files) worked without a problem in totem. with windows, i had to grab dozens of codecs that, even when they were installed didn't work! and windows media player is a horror in itself. i won't comment on that one ... it is not worth my time. :P

 

5. evolution never crashed on my box, neither did contact. both are very stable imho. does anyone remember something like outlook? brrr... bad memories. and lotus notes? *running away*

 

6.

Likewise, Konqueror is just a cheap, off-brand attempt to copy MS Window's use of the browser rendering engine to display everything in a web-way. But that was just a fad and is now over, and people largely turn it off, and yet Linux developers are still trying to make it work. And Konqueror is not a good web browser either. It is clunky and lacks just about every feature you can think of.

i think you didn't get the point with konqeror. it is not nearly as bad as some people say, and there are many useful addons that you will never get for any other browser/filemanager except firefox. konqueror is primary a filemanager that can be used as a webbrowser if needed. and if you are not completely incompetent, you can configure konqueror to a very powerful and very fast web-browser. by the way, i am writing this in konqueror. ;)

 

okay, gnome and spatial browsing... nothing that attracts me but isn't that all a matter of personal taste? :lol:

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hey, one last posting: some wonderful news on winxp-servicepack 2...

 

http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx?...ct=windowsxpsp2

 

The following table lists programs that may behave differently after you install Windows XP SP2:

 

Program Version Vendor

App  Version  ISV

Star Trek StarFleet Command III  v1.0  Activision

Medieval Total War  1  Activision

Pagemaker  7  Adobe

PageMaker (German)  6.5  Adobe

Photoshop Elements  2  Adobe

Ad-Shield  3  Ad-sheild

ERDisk for AD  6.7.128.0 Aelita

Nero 6 Ultra  6  Ahead

Nero Bruning ROM  5.5.6  Ahead

Al Mawrad (Arabic)  2003  Al Ariss

PhotoClick  ---  Al Maalin

AOL  9  AOL

AOL Toolkit  1.13.2  AOL

Uno  1  Aris Buenaventura

Dead Man's Hand  1  Atari

MotoRacer  3  Atari

Scrabble  v3.0  Atari

Unreal II  1  Atari

Unreal Tournament 2003  1  Atari

Unreal Tournament Game of the Year Edition  1  Atari

Extra Enterprise 2000 2000  ---  Attachmate

Extra Personal Client 6.5  ---  Attachmate

Extra! Bundle for TCP/IP 6.6  ---  Attachmate

KEA! 340 v5.1  ---  Attachmate

Command Antivirus  4.9  authentium

AutoCAD 2004 2004  ---  Autodesk

bv-Admin Mobile 7  ---  Bind View

StarCraft  1.05  Blizzard

BitDefender  7.2  Blizzard

Starcraft  v1.11  Blizzard

Warcraft III: Reign of Chaos Collector's Edition  v 1.0  Blizzard

Patrol for Windows 2000 3.4.0.11  ---  BMC

Word Perfect Family Pack 5 - Encyclopedia Britannica Ready Reference  2003  Britannica

WISO Sparbuch  2004  Buhl

InnoculateIT  ---  CA

MpegCraft DVD  x  Caropus

Citrix ICA client  7.1  Citrix

FileMaker Pro (German)  5  Claris

ArcServe  6.61  Computer Associates

ArcServe 7.0  ---  Computer Associates

BrightStor ArcServe Backup 9.0  ---  Computer Associates

eTrust  7  Computer Associates

eTrust 6.0.100  ---  Computer Associates

Etrust EZArmor  AE Test  Computer Associates

Corel Draw 9 - PhotoPaint (German)  9  Corel

WordPerfect Office  11  Corel

1st nd Grade Excelerator Curious George Studio 1  ---  Countertop Software

Serious Sam: The Second Encounter  1  Croteam

Retrospect Client  x  Dantz

Dave's Quick Search Toolbar  3.16  Dave Bau http://notesbydave.com/toolbar/doc.htm

Diet KaZaa  2.52  Diet KaZaa

The Lion King Animated Storybook  1  Disney

DivxPlayer  2.5.3  Divx

Command & Conquer Generals  ---  EA Games

Command & Conquer Generals Zero Hour  ---  EA Games

Earth & Beyond  v.1  EA Games

Need for Speed Hot Pursuit 2  1  EA Games

SimCity 4  v1.0  EA Games

Freedom Force  1  Electronic Arts

NBA Live 2000  1  Electronic Arts

CheckSoft Home and Business  2004  Eliibrium

EDM File System Agent 3.1  ---  EMC

Chess Advantage III: Lego Chess  ---  Encore

High School Advantage 2003  ---  Encore Software

Encyclopedia Britannica 2000 Deluxe  1  Encyclopedia Britannica

Smarterm Office 10  ---  Esker.com

Smarterm Office 11  ---  Esker.com

Diskeeper  8  Executive Software

Der Brockhaus Multimedia (German)  2004  F.A. Brockhaus

JAWS 5.0  5  Freedom Scientific

F-Secure  5.52  F-Secure

Drivers & Utilities CD  ---  Fujitsu-Siemmens

Cute FTP 5.0  ---  GlobalScape

Conflict: Desert Storm  ---  Gothamgames

Window-Eyes Professional  4.2  GW Micro

HP Quick Launch Buttons  ---  HP

HP SJ 6350  ---  HP

HPSetup 42NAheBLU1 SW build  ---  HP

Exceed 8 ---  Hummingbird

Host Explorer 8  ---  Hummingbird

Rational's Clearcase  2003  IBM

ViaVoice for Windows Personal Edition 10  10  IBM

SmartSuite Millennium Edition ScreenCam (German)  9.5  IBM Lotus

ICQ Pro  3916  ICQ

iMesh  3.1  iMesh

TurboCAD Professional  9  IMSI

Installshield  8  Installshield

Quicken 2003 Premier Home and Business  2003  Intuit

Quicken Deluxe 2001  2001  Intuit

Kazaa  2.52  Kazaa

Kerio Personal Firewall  4  Kerio

WinRoute  4.25  Kerio

Playzone Preschool - Kindergarten - Jump Start Spelling  1  Knowledge Adventure

Live Journal Semagic  1.3.9.6  Live Journal

SmartSuite Millennium Edition - Fast Site  ---  Lotus

Star Wars Knights of the Old Republic  ---  Lucas Arts

Merriam Webster's Reference Library 2003 - Journey to the Planets  2003  M-2K

ColdFusion MX for J2EE 6  ---  Macromedia

Freehand 8 (German)  8  Macromedia

MapSend Direct Route  ---  Magellan

McAfee Internet Security Suite 2004  6  McAfee

McAfee Parental Controls  1  McAfee

McAfee VirusScan  4.51  McAfee

Netshield 4.5  ---  McAfee

VisursScan  7  McAfee

Encarta Enzyklopädie  2002  Microsoft

Age of Empires II: Age of Kings  ---  Microsoft

Application Center 2000 SP2  ---  Microsoft

BizTalk 2004  ---  Microsoft

CMS  2001  Microsoft

Comabt Flight Simulator 3  1  Microsoft

Excel  2003  Microsoft

Halo Combat Evolved (Arabic and Hebrew)  Trial  Microsoft

MapPoint Europe  2004  Microsoft

Microsoft Operations Manager  2000 SP1  Microsoft

MS License  3.7  Microsoft

MSBN  ---  Microsoft

MSN  7.02  Microsoft

MSN 9 QFE1 and 9.1 beta  9  Microsoft

Office  11  Microsoft

Office - Power Point 2002 (German)  2002  Microsoft

Office Access 2002  2002  Microsoft

Office System - Power Point  2003  Microsoft

Office XP Access  10  Microsoft

Office XP Professional Excel 10.0 SP2  ---  Microsoft

Office XP SP2 - PowerPoint  11  Microsoft

Office XP Standard  10  Microsoft

Outlook 2000  9  Microsoft

Outlook 2002  10  Microsoft

Outlook 2003  11  Microsoft

Outlook Web Access  x  Microsoft

Revenge of Arcade  v1.0  Microsoft

Server Administrator Tools  ---  Microsoft

SMS  2.0 SP5  Microsoft

SMS  2.0 SP5  Microsoft

SMS  2003 RC2  Microsoft

SMS  2003 RTM  Microsoft

SMS  ---  Microsoft

SNA Server 4.0 SP4  ---  Microsoft

SQL  ---  Microsoft

SQL  7  Microsoft

SQL 2000a 2000a SP3  ---  Microsoft

TaxSaver  1999  Microsoft

Virutal PC  2004  Microsoft

Visual Basic  6  Microsoft

Visual C++ (16-bit)  2  Microsoft

Visual Studio  7  Microsoft

Visual Studio  97  Microsoft

Visual Studio .NET Enterprise 2003  ---  Microsoft

Visual Studio 98  6  Microsoft

Windows Sharepoint Services  2  Microsoft

Windows Sharepoint Services  ---  Microsoft

Word  XP  Microsoft

Works Suite 2004  2004  Microsoft

WSS  2  Microsoft

Musicmatch Jukebox  8.20.0107  Musicmatch

StyleSelector  x  NEC

Veritas  ---  NEC

AppManager  5.01  NetIQ

End2End 4.1  ---  NetIQ

File and Storage Administrator 2.1 (191067)  ---  NetIQ

VewNow 1.05  1.05  NetManage.com

View Now 1.0  1  NetManage.com

ViewNow 1.05  1.05  NetManage.com

McAfee Remote Desktop 32  ---  Network Associates

ESET NOD32 for windows  ---  Nod32

Norman Personal Firewall 1.40  AETEST  Norman

Norman Personla Firewall  4  Norman

Becky  12.09.01 

KaZaa Media Desktop  2.6.3 

PhotoImpact 7 (Traditional Chinese)  7 

Sony: PCV-W510G  510G 

Super Collapse (Demo Only)  2 

UX Theme MultiPatcher  1.5.1 

PhotoExplosion Deluxe  1  Nova Development

NovaNet Web  3.6  NovaStor

Pinnacle Studio  Beta  NX - Pinnacle Studio 9 cause data execution prevention errors

Instant CD/DVD  7  Pinnacle

Real Player (free version)  10  Real Networks

Tom Clancy's Rainbow Six 3: Raven Shield  1  Red Storm

Action Request System  x  Redmedy

Max Payne 2: The Fall of Max Payne  1  RockStar Games

NASCAR Racing 2003 Season v2003  ---  Sierra

Tribes 2  1  Sierra

Harvard Graphics  3  Software Publishing Corp

SonicWALL Virus Scan  ---  SonicWall

Sony: PCV-V200G:  ---  Sony

VirusSecurity 2004  2004  Sourcenext

BootSkin  x  Stardock

Ghost Corporate Edition 7.5  ---  Symantec

Norton Antivirus 2003  2003  Symantec

Norton Systemworks 2003 - GoBack Personal Edition  Other MS  Symantec

Norton Systemworks 2003 Professional Edition  2003  Symantec

Norton Systemworks 2004 - GoBack32  Beta  Symantec

PCAnywhere 11  ---  Symantec

Smantec Antivirus Corporate Edition  8  Symantec

Talkworks Pro  x  Symantec

Winfax Pro  10  Symantec

Roboword Pro (JAPANESE)  6  Technocraft

Style XP  2  tgtsoft

Eclipse  3  Unknown

Midnight Outlaw: Illegal Street Drag  1  Valuesoft

Roller Coaster Factory  v3.0  Valuesoft

Elite Forces Vietnam: Special Assignment 2 ver 1  ver 1  Valusoft

Midnight Outlaw Illegal Street Drug  v1.0  ValuSoft

Backup Exec  9  Veritas

Backup Exec  9.1.4691  Veritas

Backup Exec 8.6.1  ---  Veritas

Backup Exec 9.1  ---  Veritas

BackupExec  9.1  Veritas

BackupExec  8.6.1  Veritas

Bakcup Exec 9.1  ---  Veritas

Volume Manager 3.1  3.1  Veritas

Command & Conquer Red Alert 2  v1.0  Westwood

Command and Conquer Red Alert 2  1  Westwood

Windgate  5.2.3  WinGate

Reflection  9  WRQ

Reflection  9.03  WRQ

Reflection  10  WRQ

Reflection X  10  WRQ

Reflection X  11  WRQ

Reflection X 10  ---  WRQ

Xoreax Incredibuild  ---  Xoreax

Yahoo  x  Yahoo

Yahoo instant Messenger  x  Yahoo

Yahoo Messenger  6.0.0.167  Yahoo

PC Magazine Business Winstone Benchmark  2004  Ziff Davis

ZoneAlarm  5.0.590  ZoneLabs

 

anything to add in terms of user-friendlyness? :lol2:

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Guest Adriano
The following table lists programs that may behave differently after you install Windows XP SP2:

 

Let's be fair about it. The Windows firewall is just blocking a lot of the ports that those apps used. No wonder they don't work the same. But this is good security practices. We can't have the cake and eat it, complaining about MS lax security standards and bashing them for implementing tighter security.

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