nocturnes Posted August 5, 2004 Report Share Posted August 5, 2004 (edited) Bugger! More patent angst Edited August 5, 2004 by nocturnes Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spinynorman Posted August 5, 2004 Report Share Posted August 5, 2004 According to The Guardian, this is just a stratagem: ... this is not an anti-open source attempt to discredit Linux or discourage Munich, but a pro-open source attempt to put pressure on the German government. The idea is to present legislators in general with a stark choice between software patents and open source, and thus encourage them to choose the latter. Let's hope so... :unsure: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Qchem Posted August 5, 2004 Report Share Posted August 5, 2004 Apparently IBM have said they won't enforce their 60 infrindged patents (in the Linux kernel) unless they have to defend themselves. Register article Not sure what I think about it all.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pzatch Posted August 5, 2004 Report Share Posted August 5, 2004 The ultimate question about linux and patents is this. How can any linux developer ever know if something they come up with infringes on someone elses stuff? They can't. Since linux is open to public viewing the other party is the one who must find the infringing code and cry foul. Unless theirs is also open to public inspection. How could a developer ever know what the thousands of patents given out each year cover. They can't its not their job. Untill a case is taken to court nothing can be proven. And who are they going to take to court? IBM. They have a version out, Sun, Novel, They are all creators of UNIX and would not sue themselves. Maybe Rh but thats about it. I can't see how some M$ code got into linux. This was all started by some dorky insurence firm with dubious ties to M$ trying to sell Linux insurence. They said they found over 250 instances of patent violations and they could protect you for just a small 150,000 doller fee. Linmited to 5 million in penalties of course. FUD for the doller. Anyone buying? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iphitus Posted August 6, 2004 Report Share Posted August 6, 2004 Ill raise my hand for some FUD..... SCO promised not to sue any more customers the other day, doom 3 came out this week, half life 2 has to be soon :P then again, SCO dont have any more customers left to sue, only ex-customers :P iphitus Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gowator Posted August 6, 2004 Report Share Posted August 6, 2004 The ultimate question about linux and patents is this.How can any linux developer ever know if something they come up with infringes on someone elses stuff? They can't. Since linux is open to public viewing the other party is the one who must find the infringing code and cry foul. Unless theirs is also open to public inspection. How could a developer ever know what the thousands of patents given out each year cover. They can't its not their job. Untill a case is taken to court nothing can be proven. And who are they going to take to court? IBM. They have a version out, Sun, Novel, They are all creators of UNIX and would not sue themselves. Maybe Rh but thats about it. I can't see how some M$ code got into linux. This was all started by some dorky insurence firm with dubious ties to M$ trying to sell Linux insurence. They said they found over 250 instances of patent violations and they could protect you for just a small 150,000 doller fee. Linmited to 5 million in penalties of course. FUD for the doller. Anyone buying? <{POST_SNAPBACK}> That more or less sums it up... The whole issue of SW patents is ridiculous when looked at from the side of an independent software developer or open source contributor. Its the whole fact its a patent, not copyright.... if it was copyright then the big boys could examine the code and say hey thats a violation and the developer can do the same thing a different way.... Phelps is now working with Microsoft, which OSRM estimates holds 27 patents covering ideas and techniques used in the Linux code Thats the whole point MS might patent a mouse (even though they didnt invent it they take the attitude it should have been patented before! ) So we are talking vague idea here not lines of code which would be copyright... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darkelve Posted August 6, 2004 Report Share Posted August 6, 2004 (edited) Thats the whole point MS might patent a mouse (even though they didnt invent it they take the attitude it should have been patented before! ) <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Mouse: a hardware device which uses a trackball and buttons in order to navigate a pointer on the screen and to manipulate visual elements. Software and hardware are different beasts though. But a similar stupid description might be given for a piece of software code, but it could be much more confusing and might be allowed just because it "sounds logical". Edited August 6, 2004 by Darkelve Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phunni Posted August 6, 2004 Report Share Posted August 6, 2004 The ultimate question about linux and patents is this.How can any linux developer ever know if something they come up with infringes on someone elses stuff? They can't. Since linux is open to public viewing the other party is the one who must find the infringing code and cry foul. Unless theirs is also open to public inspection. How could a developer ever know what the thousands of patents given out each year cover. They can't its not their job. Untill a case is taken to court nothing can be proven. And who are they going to take to court? IBM. They have a version out, Sun, Novel, They are all creators of UNIX and would not sue themselves. Maybe Rh but thats about it. I can't see how some M$ code got into linux. This was all started by some dorky insurence firm with dubious ties to M$ trying to sell Linux insurence. They said they found over 250 instances of patent violations and they could protect you for just a small 150,000 doller fee. Linmited to 5 million in penalties of course. FUD for the doller. Anyone buying? <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Whilst I essentially agree with you (kepp that in mind ;) ) the fact that it is patent and not copyright makes this a little simplistic - or at least it seems so to me (perhaps I misunderstand you...) If a developer cannot see the code, that does not mean they can't be aware of the patent. Software patenting is essentially "owning" a concept of something you can do with software - which is (IMHO) stupid and immoral. I don't need to see someone's code on how they built their online shopping basket to know that I am writing a shopping basket myself... That said, I agree that the third parties should take responsibility, although that's leaving it a bit too late. The first the OSS developer hears of it is when it's all taken to court. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gowator Posted August 6, 2004 Report Share Posted August 6, 2004 No thats right phunni but they dont need to be aware of it to infringe it... its not like copyright where you'd need to see it and if you could prove you havent then you didnt copy it its a wishy-washy concept of is it the same sorta idea... Like the famous Amazon one click --- how can anyone patent a click is beyond me and if your reasonably IT literate the concept is just ?? but the people making the legislation are not IT literate... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darkelve Posted August 11, 2004 Report Share Posted August 11, 2004 (edited) Munich is going forward with Linux: http://www.groklaw.net Edited August 11, 2004 by Darkelve Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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