Horty Posted June 29, 2004 Report Share Posted June 29, 2004 Gday all. Reluctant win 98 user looking for a means of escape. Have just installed Mandrake 10 (dual boot with Win98) . Couldn't surf the net after install - narrowed problem down to firewall, and after a few hours of reading HOWTOs, forums, etc, managed to get it set up so I could browse past Shorewall. Am currently struggling with getting the Palm Tungsten to sync, networking, connection sharing, and so forth. My question is.........does it get any easier? I am comfortable with with working with DOS, and have used OS/2 Warp on my desktop for a year or so, but am quite intimidated by Linux, particularly its command line shell, and struggle with some of the complex support documents that are out there. I realise that Mandrake is supposed to be user friendly, but for a seasoned Windows user suffering from acute culture shock, it is proving to be a bit of a challenge. Is it worth persevering with, or should I wait another year or so before dipping the toes in again? Nice forum btw. Horty Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
devries Posted June 29, 2004 Report Share Posted June 29, 2004 Linux is not difficult and Mandrake Linux is not difficult at all. You just need to know where to look. The thing that gets new users confused is that in Linux there are many different ways to do the same thing. For instance system configuration: You have the Mandrake control center (MCC) and if you use KDE, the KDE control center and ofcourse you can edit every .conf file by hand and use the CLI. My suggestion to you, stick first to the MCC, if yo feel more comfortable with Linux, try KDE and when you're completely comfortable go with the CLI. Your palm tungesten: http://www.slac.com/pilone/kpilot_home/hardware.html. You need kpilot and it seems is just plug and play Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Horty Posted June 29, 2004 Author Report Share Posted June 29, 2004 The thing that gets new users confused is that in Linux there are many different ways to do the same thing. Good point Devries, and one I can relate to. I have used MCC and found it an excellent way of painlessly tinkering with aspects of the system without having to resort to the command line. There does however, seem to be areas where MCC seems to lack the ability to effectively configure system components. A case in point being Shorewall. When this occurs, I can bid farewell to the next couple of hours, as I diligently search the internet for solutions set out in a fashion I can comprehend. I am enjoying the challenge of exploring a different operating system, and Mandrake is probably the friendliest version of Linux I have played with (Red Hat and Morphix) but for relatively pampered Windows users, the learning curve to be found in Linux is pretty steep! I suppose that the other point that could be made here (and I am happy to be corrected) is that Linux is possibly still geared towards hobbyists and IT professionals rather than your average home Windows user . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tyme Posted June 29, 2004 Report Share Posted June 29, 2004 (edited) Linux is not like Windows, which in one respect is good but my also seem to be bad in the another respect - at first. From time to time you may loose a few hours to fixing some problem, but once you begin to get accustomed to Linux the amount of time it takes to fix something will begin to decline. You just aren't used to it yet - give it time and you'll understand the Linux way ;) But you also save time. How? Simple ;) 1) There are maybe 2-3 viruses for Linux which are rarely seen in the wild (and some aren't even capable of harming Linux anymore, since they exploit now fixed holes). This means no down time to viruses or sitting around waiting for a virus scan to finish. 2) You don't have to defragment your hard drive. That's right, your computer won't be absolutely useless for hours on end because your filesystem can't seem to orgranize bits and pieces of the files on your hard drive. This is the biggest one. Windows users tend not to realize that defragmenting your hard drive doesn't have to be necessary. 3) I can't think of a third but I'm sure there's one... :lol: but seriously, stick with it, it will grow on you. ah yes, and this: I suppose that the other point that could be made here (and I am happy to be corrected) is that Linux is possibly still geared towards hobbyists and IT professionals rather than your average home Windows user . is definitely not true :P Linspire is a great example of an easy-to-use Linux distribution. Beware, though, as it likes to act like Windows! Edited June 29, 2004 by tyme Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pzatch Posted June 29, 2004 Report Share Posted June 29, 2004 No real need to have the security up any higher than standard. I've never had a problem in 2 years. But hang in there. in about 3 months you'll have a hang of things and keep asking for help right here at this forum. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
roland Posted June 29, 2004 Report Share Posted June 29, 2004 I suppose that the other point that could be made here (and I am happy to be corrected) is that Linux is possibly still geared towards hobbyists and IT professionals rather than your average home Windows user . No and No. If everything works out of the box as it's more and more often the case or if Linux come preinstalled, the answer is definitly No, If something don't work, just ask. To fix things, it's generally not a question of knowledge but a question of will. (imho) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Horty Posted June 30, 2004 Author Report Share Posted June 30, 2004 Thanks for the encouraging replies. I think I'll probably hang in there and hopefully, eventually migrate over from Windows. Tyme, you are so right in your comments about Windows. It is a bit of a chore maintaining an efficient, clean system (Although I haven't had a chance to use XP, which may not require such high maintenance). Whats the Linux community like when it comes to dealing with absolute newcomers like myself, who no diubt bob up in forums and boards asking basic and often stupid questions? I'll probably end up posting a few. :-) Off to the books and HOWTOs then. Regards, Horty. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
feralertx Posted June 30, 2004 Report Share Posted June 30, 2004 (edited) It is a bit of a chore maintaining an efficient, clean system (Although I haven't had a chance to use XP, which may not require such high maintenance). Virus and defragmentation?? They are inherent windows components :-P, yeah you get both with windo$ XP too. When i first started with linux i feel the same as you, but now (after a year of use) i feel rather confident with it and don't miss window$ at all, IMHO the worst thing is that you are so used to the window$ way of doing things that it is difficult to think different, but time will come and all that will change and youll get to love linux just as i did, good luck and well be here to help you as much as we can, im still a newbie too but the people in this forums are really great help. Free your mind Ooops by the way, i forgot to mention that you better install all the updates for MDK 10 CE since there were quite a few, other than that id recommend you to get MDK offical edition wich is a more madure distro, les buggy and all... Edited June 30, 2004 by feralertx Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tyme Posted June 30, 2004 Report Share Posted June 30, 2004 Whats the Linux community like when it comes to dealing with absolute newcomers like myself, who no diubt bob up in forums and boards asking basic and often stupid questions? I'll probably end up posting a few. :-) That depends on the board, and the person responding. This board is rather well-known for it's friendliness and kind replies, even when "dumb" questions are asked. If you ask here, I wouldn't worry, I rarely see the famous "RTFM" or "don't ask dumb questions" responses that are supposedly characteristic of the Open Source community. However, sometimes we will give somewhat of a RTFM response, but it's usually "Check the FAQ here (link to FAQ) and get back to us with any questions you have". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gowator Posted June 30, 2004 Report Share Posted June 30, 2004 Whats the Linux community like when it comes to dealing with absolute newcomers like myself, who no diubt bob up in forums and boards asking basic and often stupid questions? I'll probably end up posting a few. :-) That depends on the board, and the person responding. This board is rather well-known for it's friendliness and kind replies, even when "dumb" questions are asked. If you ask here, I wouldn't worry, I rarely see the famous "RTFM" or "don't ask dumb questions" responses that are supposedly characteristic of the Open Source community. However, sometimes we will give somewhat of a RTFM response, but it's usually "Check the FAQ here (link to FAQ) and get back to us with any questions you have". Whats the Linux community like when it comes to dealing with absolute newcomers like myself what the heck sorta question is that.... how dare you ask that! seriously no such question as a dumb question... just dumb answers ... mainly try and give as much info as you can, don6t worry about starting a new topic if the question branches, keep the questions direct and try and state your level (which you did) ... the only real rules are give us info to help you... ENJOY Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sarissi Posted June 30, 2004 Report Share Posted June 30, 2004 I have been playing with Mandrake since 7.0 Powerpack, and have been routinely using it since 8.2 Powerpack. I came from a loooong MSDOS and MS Windows experience, and still use Windows. Anyone who comes to Linux from the Windows world pretty much goes through the same thing. I sure did! It is somewhat easier for those with any Unix or BSD exposure. I have rarely had to resort to the console (command line) in Mandrake. Unless you are using database or Web/ftp servers, you don't need a firewall running. I only have the print and X servers running here. I hate the ever so rude 'RTFM' that total newbies get from some. If they want Linux converts, they had better learn to not be rude and help the newbies. Don't they realize, that everytime they say "RTFM," they are actually helping Microsoft???? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Horty Posted July 1, 2004 Author Report Share Posted July 1, 2004 (edited) Whats the Linux community like when it comes to dealing with absolute newcomers like myself what the heck sorta question is that.... how dare you ask that! (Recoils in horror after the realisation that maybe I just asked my first dumb question) Ah well, plenty more where that came from. Seriously, and with due respect to Sarissi and his much appreciated reply, can you really get away with not needing a firewall for basic Linux systems? If it is the case, it wll save me a few questions in the Security section of this board! Is a non-firewall equipped Linux system harder to hack than an equivalent Windows system? Regards, Horty Edited July 1, 2004 by Horty Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pzatch Posted July 1, 2004 Report Share Posted July 1, 2004 I beleive a normal and basic Mandrake desktop install comes with the firewall installed and on. Just set very low allowing almost everything in and out. I've never needed it to be set any higher than that for my desktop. For anything alse though I would start to narrow access down a bit. FTP server, HTML server, router or email system as an example. Just like in windows. In linux the hacker must first find you and want to get in. Its my desktop, why would he do it in the first place. Then he has to get in. Not real easy but has been possible. You can always set the fire wall higher. Then he needs Admin access for he can't make changes without being admin. Not real easy but it has happened. Then he needs to do his dirty work and get out. Unless he's a genius I would notice him and more than likely find out what he did. None of this has yet to be proven to be doable from a simple virus or hitting a link on a webpage. He has to actually do it live. The few viri that have cropped up have been secured very quickly, we're talking days at most here. Normally any security problems that do pop up are noticed first by the pro programers and they themselves tell you how to secure the system until an official update is issued. Normaly you just turn off the app/service, change apps/services to something similar, turnup the firewall/ block that port or at most revert to an earlier kernel if its something in the kernel. Fixable in just a few minutes unless your running a truely tweaked out kernel with no possible reversion. Uptimes of years are not unheard of. And thats with doing running updates. My system has NEVER crashed, ok MAYBE once but that was before I knew how to kill a running program. Though I have killed it out of stupidity and off course an app will freeze up sometimes. But just turn off the app and keep going. Since I'm a noob also and don't know one tenth what the others do I'm sure they can offer a better and more complete answer. Or at least correct and teach me. I think everyone here is a noob. Or at least no one here is willing to say they are a guru. I just don't think they want the responsability and the crown. When will I ever learn to keep posts short? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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