iphitus Posted May 18, 2004 Report Share Posted May 18, 2004 no idea, but if its true, then it should only be good news. OpenGL itself is a good system, but its too limited in its current state to sucessfully compete with DirectX, and from what I understand DirectX is significantly easier to use.. all things that need looking at and improving. Further to this, DirectX isn't just about graphics, its the entire multimedia system - joystick, mouse, soundcard etc, enabling complete control within the game environment. OpenGL would need to be as all-encompassing to make it worth while - otherwise you have to write for OpenGL, X and OSS / ALSA / ARTS / EDOs / Anyother sound system THats nonsense. CryEngine was first written in OpenGL. Then they gradually wrote the DirectX But with most games nowadays you can go into the grpahic options and choose between software rendering, GL or DX. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darkelve Posted May 18, 2004 Report Share Posted May 18, 2004 that's true - I was simply responding to Darkelve saying that these compnaies can consider a Linux version because of WineX - although there is reason to believe that WineX discourages Linux ports... Maybe, but aren't they offering technologies to companies for rapidly re-building Windows games/applications for a Linux environment. I thought that was what winelib was for, and I think Transgaming has a similar offer. Just like they did for this adventure game which ships for OSX: http://www.transgaming.com/news.php?newsid=110 As far as I can see, it doesn't require anyone to have a licensed version of WineX either. I think THAT is the real usefulness of these products. I rather see it as an accelleration process than as a threat to developing native Linux versions. If Linux as a gaming OS gets popular enough, then it will make sense to do a native Linux version. And even if they use Wine technology to port it, I don't really see the danger?? Besides, I would rather play my games today than tomorrow. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoulSe Posted May 18, 2004 Author Report Share Posted May 18, 2004 But with most games nowadays you can go into the grpahic options and choose between software rendering, GL or DX. Yeah, so that takes care of graphics - but what about sound and gamepads, etc.? The power of DirectX is that it provides developers with one solution, one standard, for everything. OpenGL provides them with a uniform approach to graphics is all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phunni Posted May 18, 2004 Report Share Posted May 18, 2004 (edited) that's true - I was simply responding to Darkelve saying that these compnaies can consider a Linux version because of WineX - although there is reason to believe that WineX discourages Linux ports... Maybe, but aren't they offering technologies to companies for rapidly re-building Windows games/applications for a Linux environment. I thought that was what winelib was for, and I think Transgaming has a similar offer. Just like they did for this adventure game which ships for OSX: http://www.transgaming.com/news.php?newsid=110 As far as I can see, it doesn't require anyone to have a licensed version of WineX either. I think THAT is the real usefulness of these products. I rather see it as an accelleration process than as a threat to developing native Linux versions. If Linux as a gaming OS gets popular enough, then it will make sense to do a native Linux version. And even if they use Wine technology to port it, I don't really see the danger?? Besides, I would rather play my games today than tomorrow. The problem is that porting games using winelib is not not (as far as I can tell) the way gaming compnaies view the purpose of WineX In the sense that most gaming companies either just don;t care about linux as a gaming market or, if they do think about linux, they often just think - well it will probably run in Wine/WineX but very often not actually test that So companies are NOT being encouraged to port their games using winelib - they are simply being encourage (for the most part) to forget about Linux altogether since it's somebody else's problem if it works or not Obviously, this excludes all those fantastic companies who do native ports from scratch. Again WineX does not always help there either, since so many people still try and play games like Quake III or Return to Castle Wolfenstein in WineX even though there is a native port and the WineX version does not run as well! Also - it is not often true that a game will run just as well on wine as it will on windows - sometimes this happens but in most cases there will be problems - possibly minor, but still problems. A completely native port is always better IMHO Edited May 18, 2004 by phunni Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fred_the_fish Posted May 18, 2004 Report Share Posted May 18, 2004 Iphitus - read what I said, I wasn't really onabout what they wrote the game in... as I said, openGL will cope with the graphics, its the other aspects that make the difference! with DirectX, you can use a common API for graphics, sound, mouse, gamepad, rumblepack, joystick, etc etc etc etc etc. With Linux, you use openGL for the graphics, then something else for the mouse / keyboard input, and something again for the sound.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ramfree17 Posted May 19, 2004 Report Share Posted May 19, 2004 fast reply as i dont have that much time before some work monster begins gobbling me up.. :( as stated, winex is good for a growing user base. one point i would like to contradict though is the assumption that if the user base has grown to a point wherein it is deemed 'noticeable' (sorry, my grammar is not cooperating), then linux gaming would be at a disadvantage because game companies would still use winex. i disagree with that because by then game companies would begin to evaluate the feasibility of making a native port. the reason? its because linux would seem to have a feasible gamer population, and they would want to snatch the opportunity of marketing their game better because it runs natively and hopefully with more features and less bugs. btw, i dont play games nowadays nor do i have wine or winex in my system. heck, i dont even have mdk 9.2 on my home pc. :( ciao! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoulSe Posted May 19, 2004 Author Report Share Posted May 19, 2004 i disagree with that because by then game companies would begin to evaluate the feasibility of making a native port. the reason? its because linux would seem to have a feasible gamer population, and they would want to snatch the opportunity of marketing their game better because it runs natively and hopefully with more features and less bugs. btw, i dont play games nowadays nor do i have wine or winex in my system. heck, i dont even have mdk 9.2 on my home pc. :( ciao! I agree with that. The games companies care which OSes are the biggest, not WHY they are the biggest. And the fact that companies like id, Bioware and Atari are providing native ports means that no other gaming company has an excuse. These people are in competition and they are developers - not n00bs - they know that a native port will run better and be favoured over a game running in WineX. The only exception to the above seems to be Blizzard They make brilliant games and they port them to OSX... why do they refuse to even look at Linux? And don't say because of WineX, not true. At least the other companies are open to discussion... Anyway, sooner or later they won't have a choice because Linux will be right up there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Qchem Posted May 19, 2004 Report Share Posted May 19, 2004 Yeah, so that takes care of graphics - but what about sound and gamepads, etc.? Shouldn't SDL be used for a task like this? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoulSe Posted May 19, 2004 Author Report Share Posted May 19, 2004 Yeah, so that takes care of graphics - but what about sound and gamepads, etc.? Shouldn't SDL be used for a task like this? You are right - I was just commenting on the statement that OpenGL is a replacement for DirectX, which of course it isn't. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phunni Posted May 19, 2004 Report Share Posted May 19, 2004 fast reply as i dont have that much time before some work monster begins gobbling me up.. :( as stated, winex is good for a growing user base. one point i would like to contradict though is the assumption that if the user base has grown to a point wherein it is deemed 'noticeable' (sorry, my grammar is not cooperating), then linux gaming would be at a disadvantage because game companies would still use winex. i disagree with that because by then game companies would begin to evaluate the feasibility of making a native port. the reason? its because linux would seem to have a feasible gamer population, and they would want to snatch the opportunity of marketing their game better because it runs natively and hopefully with more features and less bugs. btw, i dont play games nowadays nor do i have wine or winex in my system. heck, i dont even have mdk 9.2 on my home pc. :( ciao! I basically agree - what I was trying to say was that hopefully WineX will become redundant in the future for exactly the reason you state. If it doesn't, however, then it can only ultimately be bad for linux gaming in the long run IMHO Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fred_the_fish Posted May 19, 2004 Report Share Posted May 19, 2004 Maybe, just maybe, someone should create a common API for creating games upon, in the same sort of way that Sun created Java (yes, I know, Sun didn't on their own create java blah blah blah blah... its not the point..) With a common interface, games could be written for any platform, then there are no issues with with porting between different OS. Obviously this would have an effect on the speed of the games, but as Java has shown in the last couple of years, things DO get faster the more the developers learn about them, and tweak things... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tyme Posted May 19, 2004 Report Share Posted May 19, 2004 OpenGL can be used on both Linux and Windows platforms. so can SDL, I believe. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fred_the_fish Posted May 19, 2004 Report Share Posted May 19, 2004 Why is everyone seeming to think that I claim that openGL an't be used on both platforms?????????????? I wasn't. I was saying that openGL is just for graphics. DirectX is a common API for all aspects of game design. And above, I was suggesting that maybe we should create an API which would be able sit in a sand-box ala java, and be used on any platform WITHOUT needing to be ported to work on different OS... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tyme Posted May 19, 2004 Report Share Posted May 19, 2004 if it was ala java, it would have to be an interpreted language...which would make it slow as molasses... any compiled language is going to require some "porting" because of the differences in the operating systems, and what's being used. it's more complicated than just making a standard...you still have to apply that standard to other standards...and other standards..and...... see what i mean? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phunni Posted May 19, 2004 Report Share Posted May 19, 2004 if it was ala java, it would have to be an interpreted language...which would make it slow as molasses... perhaps not quite as slow as that ;) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.