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Linux on Desktop Making Big Strides


energymedia
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I'm hurt...:( I merely said, "Like what?" and you guys started bashing the hell out of the topic...

 

But you do have a good point, and google might be a good substitute for linux forums. I'm starting to make a linux website for those who don't want to get involved in any weird offtopic threads :cheesy:

 

Btw, my Win XP is purring like a well-tuned engine. You're lucky everyone you know doesn't have problems with that os, everyone I know, has, and I'm unlucky enough to be their "repairman". Ugh.

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What a discussion! Too late to join in the fun??

 

Well anyway, here's my take - quite a bit of which has been said before (by Darkelve for instance) :

 

1 technically, linux can do about anything that OSX can do, it is a full grown professional platform, feature wise. It has capabilities and characteristics that imho MSWin and OSX cannot touch.

2 practically, a lot of functionality, niche or not, is missing from linux. This goes from certain software applications to hardware support.

3 OTOH linux can do / run certain software that OSX and MSWin can't. Technically, they probably could, but there would be little to gain and too much to lose.

 

The point to the thing is: there is currently not enough incentive for vendors/manufacturers to make point 2 go away, just as much as point 3 is staying due to some characteristics of linux that make it worthwhile to deploy where people wouldn't stop to think twice about trying to get these applications/software systems running in platforms like MSWin and OSX.

 

The good thing is: in time, with growth (that is unstoppable), point 2 will grow less and less important; with asia moving to linux, hardware support will improve (though I think it is not bad today - you can get any kind of device, maybe not every single one, but every type, and get it to run with linux). Software will become available as the market becomes available. (In Asia, most is pirated, so more linux marketshare in Europe and America is needed.)

 

Patience, and keep doing what we are doing: supporting linux, helping people move to it. Remember, everyone who moves completely to linux counts as 2: one more on the statistical side of linux, one less on the side of their previous OS (MSWin).

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aRTee, thanks for giving me some credit ;)

 

As for desktop use, I think one thing needed is that 'local' Linux vendors -if there are any in the region- finally get serious about pushing Linux as a viable option. While hardware *should* work out of the box, a simple solution to counter the 'fears' of computer owners, would be for a shop to sell ( A ) Linux Distro(s), AS WELL as ( B ) a set of hardware known to work without any problems under Linux.

 

Compare it to, say, what Apple does with its online store. An owner will want to buy a PC (hardware) that's functional (Operating System+applications), but will afterwards probably seek to broaden his selection of ( a ) software, which means easy and painless installs, and ( B ) HARDWARE, which means if I buy the product it will work instantly without the risk of ending up as a very expensive paperweight (I have a scanner like that in my room...).

 

So you offer the customer the extra 'reassurance' that any hardware he will buy at your shop, will work without giving him/her headaches. Of course, the inevatible 'pre-loaded PC' comes up again here.

[On I side note, it is disgusting to see those hardware things that state 'designed for WindowsXP' or 'designed for Windows200' etc...]

 

If you take it yet another step further, you could even offer a 'Linux multimedia PC' kit, selling e.g. a PC preloaded with a certain distro, accompanied by a digital camera, a printer, a scanner, ... making sure things such as Sane and Digikam are installed. Heck! Make it easier: configure it for them! (ok, I know it takes more time but allow me to continue ranting while I'm busy mmkay ;) )

 

For our desktop discussion, this I figure is also interesting:

http://primates.ximian.com/~rml/blog/

 

While it is said Linux has reached its tipping point, I do not fully agree. It probably has in the server market etc... But to make it tip in the 'desktop' area, local resellers are needed that actually SELL the product and that at a cheaper price than comparable windoze boxes. You can bet more price-conscious people will go for such a solution. Then, slowly but inevitably, the rest will follow.

 

Now take a look at Mandrake 10, Xandros 2, Lindows 4.5 (or is it 5?). Then tell me you cannot sell that. Then I will say your are wrong. I gave a short tour of Xandros 2.0 to my father, who was surprised and said 'and all of this is possible with Linux??'. When I asked him if he would consider switching at one point he answered: 'but I will not be able to keep using alle of my programs then, can I?'.

 

Well, said I, with this Crossover thingy, you CAN use those MS Office thingies like Word and Excel etc... and perhaps a few other programs... and you can try to install other programs with it, but it's not sure that they will function or function without problems.

 

Yesterday he was irritated because he was scanning a pic from his wedding (it was my parents wedding anniversary) and Windows 2000 on his Compaq laptop gave the (in)famous message: insufficient disk space. Which, of course, caused the PC to crawl forward ever so slowly. My brother's Armada V300 laptop with Win98 gets infected with spyware every few *weeks*.

 

Now I would be happy to pull out a LiveCD like a rabbit from my geek hat, BUT the Wireless PCMCIA card (Intel Pro/Wireless 2011 PCMCIA) has no drivers for it. Well, there are drivers, but those are in beta stage now and only to be found in CVS, whatever that is.

 

Notice the parallel between my theory at the beginning and my practical experience at the end?

 

Just like Windows its good enough, Linux is good enough. But with one difference: it's better (arguably) and it's cheaper (more or less a fact). Only thing stopping it from steamrolling ('snowballing' if you like) Windows on the desktop is:

1. hardware support

2. preloaded machines

3. local resellers

 

As I pointed out, it's not difficult to imagine situations where you combine the three.

 

Let the debates begin! :thumbs:

Edited by Darkelve
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I can tell you from working in the data center world that, that yes, there is a Big differnece in security/stable in windows/unix servers.

 

You all can say what you want, but i get to watch them crash everytime a new virus is out or they haven't been rebooted in a week or a month. Depends on the load the server is taking. Unix servers, take more of a beating, don't care about virus and rarely ever need to be rebooted for system locks. Windows servers have scheduled reboots, depending on how crappy the server has been running.

 

So yes, windows security really does suck! Watch the news or test it for your selve.

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So yes, windows security really does suck!  Watch the news or test it for your selve.

and that's in response to which post?

I'm just pointing out as a Linux Zealot that windows Sucks that's all.

 

This is sort of like:

 

My GMC Truck is better than your Ford truck.

 

Getting stupid eh?

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So yes, windows security really does suck!  Watch the news or test it for your selve.

and that's in response to which post?

I'm just pointing out as a Linux Zealot that windows Sucks that's all.

 

This is sort of like:

 

My GMC Truck is better than your Ford truck.

 

Getting stupid eh?

What's a GMC? :unsure: :rolleyes:

Edited by Darkelve
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Now that I have waded through this topic.....

 

Macintosh has been entrenched in the Graphics industry for quite a while. Linux is making inroads here. IRIX has also been entrenched here, and Linux has been replacing IRIX on SGI's own mainframes!

 

At first, Linux was only used for the Render Farms, with Windows or Mac on the Workstations. Now Linux is being used for both.

 

Unfortunately, these commercial 3D CGI apps are Studio Grade and very expensive. Most everything else is made for Windows and Mac only and no thought of building for Linux. The commercial apps for linux require OLD Redhat from what I have seen. Well, that is what was used when the Studios went with them, and they see no need to upgrade.

 

Fortunately, we are seeing some GPL and other apps coming onto the scene to help fill the gap.

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Seems I have inadvertenly created a bit of an OS war. :devil: Did not mean to do so.

 

Now after reading through all of the posts, I would like to submit my thoughts on the matter. Please bear with me if I am jumping around, but there was a lot covered in this thread.

 

To give you a bit of background on me, I have been working with computers for many years, my first computer was a TRS-80. I have run the gamit of Windows OS's, tried Apple and Linux off and on over the years. However, as the majority of users were using Windows, that is where I specialized. I currently work as an IT consultant, as well as running my own IT shop. The consulting that I do is for many different styles of businesses, howere 85% are in the graphics design/video editing industry. My clients clients include Labatt Breweries, Honda, Levis, Lexus, Toyota etc. On a personal note, I switched to Linux completely a year ago and am learning and loving it (remember, this is my personal opinion and I m not trying to push it on anyone).

 

The topolgy of these clients is a mixture of Windows, Apple and Linux workstations, the numbers would be approx. 40/55/5 respectively. The reason for this is that Linux is a relative new comer to the design industry (hold your outrage, I am not finished). The Windows computers are mainly support staff (accounting, sales, management) and servers. The Apple computers are almost exlusively designers. The few Linux machines that are in place are mostly servers although there are a few workstations floating around.

 

The reason for this breakdown is simple. This is the way in which people have been taught. Those that are in the support roles were taught in business school (or whatever they went to) to use MS Office on different flavours of Windows (3.11/9x/ME/W2K/XP). This is what was in the classroom or what their mentor used, so this is what they use. For the designers, they were taught on Macs as this is what platform the software they needed to use had been developed on (Photoshop, Macromedia, etc.). Only relatively recently have these applications been ported over to Windows. The Linux workstations come from different sources, but mainly due to some IT guy taking the time to learn the benefits of it and demonstrating it to some open minded employee.

 

Which is better? That is a question that is not ever going to be answered. The reason for this, as we have seen throughout this thread, is that different people like/want/need different things from their OS. For job security, from my standpoint, Windows is the best OS as that is what tends to break and keeps me employeed. Personally, as I have mentioned, I preffer Linux and this is because I design/build/consult on networks and security, and the best tools (again, my opinion) for this are on the Linux platform. Having seen/played with Mac/Linux/Windows design applications, I would have to say that at this time the Macs are going to continue to rule (in the design industry), at least for the next few years. The industry standard applications, for print design, are Adobe and Quark, with a few lesser known apps thrown in. These were designed for Macs. This is what newcomers as well as the old pros have been trained in. For the video industry, it is a toss up between Linux and Macs. As has been mentioned, many studios are now using Linux on the desktop, and not just as a rendering farm. It will be interesting to watch this industry and see what happens.

 

As more and more people become familiar with Linux and what it can do, I believe that software and hardware companies are going to get together to bring their products to all OSes. Those that don't will not survive.

 

The biggest advantage to Linux and Open Source in general, is the trend of Governments migrating to Linux. Governments have significant clout, and if the White House in the US, Parliment Hill in Canada, etc. need to have hardware that works with the Linux platform that they are rolling out, then you will very quickly see the hardware/software vendors supporting Linux.

 

Darkelve stated:

As for desktop use, I think one thing needed is that 'local' Linux vendors -if there are any in the region- finally get serious about pushing Linux as a viable option. While hardware *should* work out of the box, a simple solution to counter the 'fears' of computer owners, would be for a shop to sell ( A ) Linux Distro(s), AS WELL as ( B ) a set of hardware known to work without any problems under Linux.

This is exactly what I am attempting to do in my area. I have partnered with Mandrake and neTraverse and am working at some others in order to bring a complete desktop solution to the home user. It is slow going as I am having to break down the barriers that Microsoft and Apple have created, but it is coming.

NOTE: If anyone has any ideas that would help with pushing Linux to home users, or can think of different partnerships I should look at, please email me.

 

To sum up my little rant, I originally started this post to demonstrate that Linux is making in-roads at the desktop market. Somehow it has become an all out OS war. I have given my take on this, and I hope everyone that reads it takes it in the vein that I have written it, as MY OPINION. Disagree all you like. That is what makes the Open Source community special and why it is working. :thumbs:

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Disagree all you like.  That is what makes the Open Source community special and why it is working. :thumbs:

You mean we can disagree? :deal:

 

Really, very nice roundup energymedia. Not for one second did I get the opinion of you getting too subjective. Bravo!

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Very good post,

 

No were did I say Linux was top dog in all those area's I was merly saying that it "can" do all the things others do.

 

To me, yes it is number 1! I don't need to change and the other os's don't offer anything for me. For others, might be differnet and i don't really care.

 

:D

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