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Linux on Desktop Making Big Strides


energymedia
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Now, on to the topic of debate in part of this thread:  Will Linux catch Mac?  Probably not.  If it does, it will be far off.  The reasons for this are fairly clear and stated earlier in this thread:  die hard Mac'ers will ALWAYS use Mac.  As bvc pointed out, at least it's based on *nix now (darwin).  Mac is one of if not the best platform for graphic design.  It has been for a long time, it will be for a long time as well.  Some people prefer other OS's, but most will agree that Mac is King of that particular hill.

 

Now, for the movie companies.  I just had to chime in here.  I read somewhere that Dreamworks (Spielberg's company, made Shrek among many others) uses a Linux render farm to render all of their graphics.  I'm not sure if they use Linux to create the graphics, though.  Also, I swear I read somewhere that LucasArts also does the same thing.  I could be wrong there, though.

I thought it was commonly known enough not to have to spell it out. Well put LZ.

 

Yes, linux is being used in the movie industry. I read an article at work (a graphics corp.) but don't remember the details. I doubt that I can find it but I'll look.

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&lr=&ie=...in%C2%A0results

http://www.desktoplinux.com/articles/AT7096363910.html

 

Our prepress mgr, a diehard mac'er, knows of the strides that linux has made in recent years. Believe me when I say they (the graphics industry) hear of it. Some (not at my work) even use the gimp at home and I'm sure maya as well. It's a start. BUT...convincing the Big Man flipping the bill is another story entirely. We've been doing a lot of cost analysis lately and just the time in booting to different OS's shoots linux out of the picture. A couple of apps ain't gonna cut it. Mac runs them all and windows almost. Out of 10 boxes 2 run win2k and one of those is rarely used. You know what the others are. That doesn't count the servers/databases that are also mac. We're a small company.

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Just so were clear on something, if i could affoard a powerbook I would buy one in a heart beat (of course linux would be on there "too")

 

:D

 

The only comments I made were

 

Some of Mac's graphics stuff is on Linux

 

Why can't Linux replace Windows in business (already happeing) normal users don't know much to begin with.

 

Linux is used in movies, lots of movies!

 

Did I say something wrong, lie? NOpe, just the facts.

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Ok, but you forgot to mention some things I am sure most of you already know:

 

- Linux is able to run on 'cheap' intel hardware

- A number of distro's (Lindows, Mandrake, SuSe, Xandros) are making the distro easy to use for newbies.

- As most people only need a small percentage of features & applications, those distro's are an excellent fit for a LOT of people. E.g. those who 'only' use their PC to surf the net, check their mail, chat on *cough*MSN*cough* chat networks, listen to audio/mp3 and watch video/DVD.

- For a whole host of other applications, bridge technologies exist. E.g. the famous (infamous to some?) Wine technology, Win4Lin, ... which ironically allows me to run some Win98/2000 games again on Linux I can't run on XP (no, not even in 'compatible' mode).

- People are fed up with viruses, e-mail worms and hacking attempts. I'm also sure they'll freak out once they learn their machines could easily get turned into zombies

- Also, don't underestimate the power of a vendor 'backing' Linux, like IBM and -more importantly for the desktop- Novell. Which *could* have as a nice side-effect that more people are going to buy the SuSe 'desktop'-product

 

The problems Linux on the desktop is facing:

- Not well known enough. Actually more people know of it then you may think, but a lot think it is just hype, or feel uncomfortable because its new, or some of the inevitable FUD got stuck between their ears.

 

Now the solution is simple to think up, but far less simple to do:

1. Advocate Linux, making it better known, and presenting the TRUE facts to people

2. Offering Linux pre-loaded on consumer PC's and laptops

3. Demo some Linux distro's to your friends and family and try to convince them to switch or at least dual-boot.

4. Actually use Linux and Linux programs (e.g. 'eat your own dog food, or drink your own champagne', to quote Novell). DON'T change that browser ID into Internet Exploiter! Use a nice wallpaper for your background that says 'Linux' somewhere.

5. Inform the 'n00bies': Hammer on security. And on getting educated. And on sharing with the community (and what it is, and why it matters). This as much to the benefit of desktop users as to Linux itself.

 

The most valuable gift we were giving recently to show off Linux is the LiveCD. Have plenty of them. Never be out of stock. Carry them everywhere you go (ok, maybe not everywhere).

 

So I disagree Linux will never gain foothold on the desktop. It won't if you don't believe in it. And it would be a shame to let this opportunity slip away (don't expect Longhorn to be merciful). After all, if we're the Free speech movement of the moment -and I agree to a large extent- why should we deny it to others?

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I'd like to see a market with Linux, Mac, Windows, etc with a fair market share, competing with each other (fairly), with enough standards to ensure compatibility...I mean fair, as in M$ will have to give people value for their money, or be overwhelmed by competition.

 

I'm dreaming...:zzz:

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I'd like to see a market with Linux, Mac, Windows, etc with a fair market share, competing with each other (fairly), with enough standards to ensure compatibility...I mean fair, as in M$ will have to give people value for their money, or be overwhelmed by competition.

 

I'm dreaming...:zzz:

back to sleep, you! :jester:

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Whatever you can do with Mac you can't do with linux has nothing to do with the technical possibilities but just marketshare.

 

As a platform linux is fine. That some apps are missing is as Darkelve argues, due to the marketsituation.

 

BTW now that apple has a fast cpu again (ibm970) Pixar is going back to mac - it was a smut on the owner Steve Jobs who is the CEO of Apple to be using Linux not Mac for rendering. Since they have the source they can use whatever platform they want, and if the boss wants them to use Mac, that's what they'll use.

Btw Monsters Inc. was made on Linux, as were the SFX of Titanic, Star wars Ep1 and 2, and many things in the LOTR trilogy.

 

I have had some talks with EDA people, and things are moving to linux bigtime - on compute servers.

Why this is good? Don't really know, except that AMD, NVIDIA et al are using linux to design their next generation stuff. That's right. It's all moving to linux, mostly on Opteron. And away from Solaris (slowaris), HP-UX, etc.

You can bet that they will make sure that linux runs well on AMD-64, Nvidia etc. They use that themselves. Now they are motivated to support linux.

 

As for games, this will take some time.

I read one very interesting comment on /. that explained that the linux game market is much smaller that one would think: you have to count only those sales that are made to those who do not dualboot and who would otherwise not buy the windows version of the game you are trying to sell (such as dualbooters and winex users). This group is almost by definition not large, although it does include me... who else who buys games will not buy and/or run a game that is a windows version?

 

Asia's linux use doesn't help much either, since they will not spend the money for the games either...

 

 

One last thing on this EDA software and why people are moving to linux bigtime: some software costs 200.000 US$ for a one-year single cpu license. Imagine that on opteron you can have 2.5 to 4 times the performance, and so for instance you may need 1 license less...!! You can practically afford the extra guy you might need to maintain your linux systems, and buy some more of those linux 1U servers...

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OK - here are my thoughts on the "Linux ready for desktop" debate.

 

I think that, as an OS, Linux is absolutely ready for the desktop - EXCEPT for the third party support. There is nothing now inherant in Linux that makes it too difficult to use - especially with distros like Mandrake providing nice GUI tools. The areas where most newbies will come unstuck are:

 

1) installation - although probably not more than they would if they tried to install windows from scratch

2) hardware (and some software) compatibility - this is the big one

3) security - most people will happily learn the bsics though (like having a normal user and not logging in as root

 

So, it's only really the second one that's a significant problem. This is a problem though because most companies won't provide support for Linux until it's more of a market force and Linux won't be more of a market force until there is greater compatability.

 

As business and government start using Linux on the desktop this situation will improve, but it will be a long time before Linux is commonly used on the home PC - if ever.

 

The other issue is that your average PC user probably doesn't even know what an OS is and certainly doesn't care what one they use. So why would they bother switching to Linux?

 

Games is a major factor - one of my friends was considering giving Linux a try until I told him he couldn't play his games - that was it then!

 

Again, if Linux becomes more prevalent then more games will appear...

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reading this thread has brought some things to my mind, so i thought i'd share them.

 

the general impression on desktop linux is, it needs killer apps. that linux needs to port more over and so forth. while there is some truth to this, i think its a misnomer. what got linux and OSS to where it is today is inovation, not porting. i think OSS needs to push the envelope and do some inovation, not so much porting. the project "looking glass" might be an example of inovation.

 

i think that alot of projects right now are started by someone who thinks it'd be cool if they port their favorite M$ app over. like i said, this does have its place, but not at the expence of inovation. dont get me wrong, i am not saying OSS doesnt inovate, it does. just i think we're seeing more of an emphasis on porting lately than inovation.

 

on the subject of mac vs linux; last i looked, mac had 5% of the desktop market share and linux had 5%. this is neck and neck. linux is booming over in asain countries. by the way, the 5% is refering to "licenced" or purchases. since we know linux is available for free, how many more have non-licenced copies of linux?

 

when comparing apps, there are always die hard fans. some say photoshop is the king, some gimp. while others say mac apps rule. M$ office and IE have been ported over to mac. it all has to do with someones oppinion. as i once heard; "oppinions are like buttholes, everyone has one, and they all stink".

 

linux can do what mac can do. the question is, why hasnt linux done it? is it because some companies dont want to make their products available for linux? i hardly think so. OSS can do anything. OSS invented kerebos and perhaps gui ( tracing the gui time line is really hard). i do know that X was started by MIT in the 80's. roughly about the same time Xerox, and IBM made thier gui's. M$ wasnt even in the picture as far as gui's are concerned.

 

i saw the other day, an open source project of mac/darwin for x86 architecture. http://gnu-darwin.sourceforge.net/ we also know that people make linux available to ppc. since this is true, there must be a demand for it.

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"oppinions are like buttholes, everyone has one, and they all stink".

 

Huh, that's why my finger stinks in the morning! ;)

 

i saw the other day, an open source project of mac/darwin for x86 architecture. http://gnu-darwin.sourceforge.net/ we also know that people make linux available to ppc. since this is true, there must be a demand for it.

 

Yes, I have ran it and have the latest cd iso at home ;-)

To bad they don't open Aqua

 

Pretty much agree, "INOVATION" Great things are comeing, just you wait!

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speaking of games.....in my previous post i forgot to mention that ps3 is supposed to run embedded linux. http://news.zdnet.co.uk/software/developer...,2132851,00.htm this is just speculation on my part, but that could mean great things as far as gaming for linux.

 

:headbang: watch out yall!! here comes linux, like a freight train.

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these ports from pixar and others aren't for your DE. Sorry.

 

The question was

"OS X has capabilities that the best versions of linux can't match...."

 

yeah, like what? hehe...

version implies, current. Those that say 'linux can do' need to put up or..... :P

.....as several of us have pointed out 'it does not'....currently. It simply can not, rt now, on your box.

 

Inovation is good.....but these new apps/not ports will have to hold to the industries standards. Who needs an image in gimp format, abiword, kword, ?pdf, <put_whatever_down_the_road.here>... etc.....format? :screwy: they're useless to 99.99999999% and in 5 years will be useless to 90% ?maybe?

 

It's another debate that is never won by anyone. I just crack up when I see people saying they 'can do, right now' what everyone else can. That's an impossibility.

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the people I know using Windows aren't DOING anything (except screw up)

 

Maybe it's different for the Mac... but I'm no graphic artist, and Blender and GIMP are enough for me. But it depends on your profession/use for the computer. Has any US National Laboratory used OS X for their supercomputers?

 

So I guess I was wrong, different OS are usually used for different purposes, there's no "do-it all" OS there.

 

"Mac for productivity, Linux and UNIX for stability, Windows for Solitaire" :jester:

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Those that say 'linux can do' need to put up or..... :P

 

i am not a developer. i do know however....IT IS possible. period. end of story.

 

Inovation is good.....but these new apps/not ports will have to hold to the industries standards. Who needs an image in gimp format, abiword, kword, ?pdf, <put_whatever_down_the_road.here>... etc.....format?  they're useless to 99.99999999% and in 5 years will be useless to 90% ?maybe?

 

do you mean like M$ office? where they keep making current versions incompatible with past versions?

 

lets reflect on history. arpanet (OSS) developed tcp/ip. MIT developed kerebos (also OSS). M$ tries to buy out the standard, then add their own code, then patent it so nobody else can touch it.

 

gimp is an OSS version of what? photoshop (kinda). abiword/kword, etc, etc...are OSS clones of MS Word. this isnt inovation.

 

standardization is important to. dont get me wrong. but if we just stay with standards, then we never come to anything new and we become complacent.

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