Guest Adriano Posted March 4, 2004 Report Share Posted March 4, 2004 Awright, from reading /. on this very same issue: - We should expect a flurry of KDE-related patches: the version included in 10.community is KDE 3.2.0, which has been bug-cleaned in 3.2.1. Remember this _before_ you complain about it :) - Let's get busy not only with the code bugs but also with the interface bugs. There are 2 I reported (one about ambiguous and/or b0rken text in draksec, another about all the icons in Menudrake being in disorder) that I want to see fixed. :) again. We can make it so that Official is really polished. Yes, I'm talking to you, the ones like me, too coward/busy to download cookers and do betatests. - The KDE-Quality Team has really inspired me, and I'm going to be on their toes with the few Kapps I use (who knows, perhaps I'll start using more of them). - So did Eric Raymond with his "Luxury of Ignorance" duet. Although Cups in Mandrake seems to be much better handled than in Fedora, thanks to PrinterDrake, we've _got_ to make sure this improves even more. I can't code worth a damn. I do not know yet. But I can certainly tell when an app is confusing, misbehaving, or just plain mean. Let's stop this behavior now, and we'll get the masses to use Mandrake in no time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grendal Posted March 4, 2004 Report Share Posted March 4, 2004 I can't code worth a damn. I do not know yet. But I can certainly tell when an app is confusing, misbehaving, or just plain mean. Let's stop this behavior now, and we'll get the masses to use Mandrake in no time. I agree/ me too! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sarissi Posted March 4, 2004 Report Share Posted March 4, 2004 I am perfectly happy to wait for the Official version of the Powerpack Edition. So long as the subscription would include Official for 10.1 and 10.2, I would get another Powerpack Subscription. Maybe even on DVDROM this time. I just bought an 8X NEC all in one DVD burner from internetishop.com, a 25 pack spindle of DVD+RWs, and a 4 port manual KVM switch with cables. All via eBay and three different sellers, and that was yesterday. Everything has been shipped. At least I should be able to use it as a DVDROM drive in linux. :D Powerpack gets a commercial CD and another, plus 2 install sources CDs, for a total of 7 CDs. oddly, The most I have used for install, is 4: install 1 and 2, International, and Contribs. As far as Mandrake is concerned, I have never bought anything BUT the Powerpack Edition. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aRTee Posted March 5, 2004 Report Share Posted March 5, 2004 The big question is: will people now consider the Community release as another RC and the Official as the real final? I guess there is only one way for Mandrake to get people to use the community release: limit the Official iso's to clubmembers. If people in general wait for the Official, the Community will not be tested enough.... So basically, I think that the Official should be only for clubmembers and Pack buyers. On the KDE 3.2.0 issue, how sure is it that some of the 3.2.1 patches have not already been applied? There is one month between 3.2.0 and this Community release. Note also that Ranger explained at the time of KDE3.1.3 when 3.1.4 was out but not in Mandrake, that the 3.1.3 had plenty of patches which made it actually closer to 3.1.4 than 3.1.3. BTW still downloading. Bittorrent isn't all that cool -- seems I will have uploaded as much as downloaded as soon as it finishes, hopefully today when I get home from work.. ESR was IMHO full of it when he complained about cups, the fedora implementation was maybe b0rked, but in Mandrake I can hardly imagine it being a real problem -- as opposed to other things that should be improved that is. There is room for improvement, but it's not (nor should it be) that high on the priority list for Mandrake... They have to concentrate on the Draketools and documentation. BTW one thing: if you choose Dutch, the welcoming text and some other stuff are my translations. Unfortunately I couldn't finish enough of it.. I will soon, so things are all ok in the official. Sarissi, my guess is that you will be able to burn dvd's without too many problems (you will have to figure out which packages are needed for what) -- during some translations (for the menus) I came across several tools to create dvd-video menus etc... lots of work in progress there. I'm currently working on 3 new webpages on Mandrake 10.0: installation configuration review Hope to finish this weekend, lots of things to do: install 10.0, see if it's enough like the betas so that my configuration is ok and the parts I wrote for the review are ok, double check, then finalise. Q: what would you like to see in a review, in the sense: "this is information that I wanted to have"? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zero0w Posted March 5, 2004 Report Share Posted March 5, 2004 (edited) ESR was IMHO full of it when he complained about cups, the fedora implementation was maybe b0rked, but in Mandrake I can hardly imagine it being a real problem -- as opposed to other things that should be improved that is. There is room for improvement, but it's not (nor should it be) that high on the priority list for Mandrake... They have to concentrate on the Draketools and documentation. I have read ESR's article. Well, the thing is, if CUPS cannot detect any local or network printer, then the task of troubleshooting can be daunting; Mandrake for the most part did a good job for autodetection - but if you have DrakFirewall setup and block CUPS service, then you better remember to turn it off on CUPS. I remembered it, but there's no guarantee of so for others. If there's no good document to educate users on how to diagnose and fix CUPS printer detection problem, then I think ESR's comment have its merit - a little flamebit he may be, but good docs could still be lacking in this regard. Edited March 5, 2004 by zero0w Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Adriano Posted March 5, 2004 Report Share Posted March 5, 2004 I'd think ESR is full of himself, too (as I usually do) If I hadn't read the overwhelming response to his first "Luxury" piece, including the answer from the CUPS guys. That's what made me worry. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aRTee Posted March 5, 2004 Report Share Posted March 5, 2004 Ok, at some point the bittorrent turbo did kick in, since at the 20KB/s I was getting late last night things should have been finished around 5:30pm my time, whereas it seems they finished about 10hrs before that moment... Also, I'm currently downloading the 4th clubmember cd, no clue what is on it, and it downloads at over 80KB/s. Now if you'll excuse me, I'm off for some simple dinner and a Mandrake 10.0 installation. :D Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tyme Posted March 5, 2004 Report Share Posted March 5, 2004 bittorrent downloads tend to get faster the further along in the download you get. i'm hoping to have the first 3 cd's downloaded when i get home from work in a few hours. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DragonMage Posted March 5, 2004 Report Share Posted March 5, 2004 ESR was IMHO full of it when he complained about cups, the fedora implementation was maybe b0rked, but in Mandrake I can hardly imagine it being a real problem -- as opposed to other things that should be improved that is. There is room for improvement, but it's not (nor should it be) that high on the priority list for Mandrake... They have to concentrate on the Draketools and documentation. I have read ESR's article. Well, the thing is, if CUPS cannot detect any local or network printer, then the task of troubleshooting can be daunting; Mandrake for the most part did a good job for autodetection - but if you have DrakFirewall setup and block CUPS service, then you better remember to turn it off on CUPS. I remembered it, but there's no guarantee of so for others. If there's no good document to educate users on how to diagnose and fix CUPS printer detection problem, then I think ESR's comment have its merit - a little flamebit he may be, but good docs could still be lacking in this regard. I thought ESR is full of it too, until I try installing a printer on Fedora. Then I realize what he is talking about. Fedora's printer setup utility and CUPS web interface basically clashed with each other and neither do what I want them to do, which is to setup a local printer that is available to other people on the network. Mandrake on the other hands makes installing a printer so much easier, I don't even have to muck around with CUPS web interface. So I guess good user interface is important.. Mandrake's UI for printer setup works, Fedora and CUPS web UI doesn't. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aRTee Posted March 5, 2004 Report Share Posted March 5, 2004 (edited) 10.0 is ok, still configuring some parts, but so far, looks very good: done: nvidia, lm_sensors, /etc/hosts, fstab to mount nfs shares of my server, setup to install from hd isos that are mounted, added the 4th disc too, imwheel for mousebuttons of my mx700, lircd and lircmd. Some audio stuff: with webcam plugged in, no audio, just the web mic... unplugged and restarting the service worked, oh yeah, only after loading the audigy module, which actuallly loads the alsa module. Great fun. Some things left to fix before Official I guess. Still, I can live with this. Note: the 4th disc contains some stuff normally found in contrib, imwheel and lirc for instance. Haven't added any extra stuff, like plf or contrib, anyone want to give me a hint how to do that? Just take the cooker sources? Off for bed now.. Edit: quick addition: stopped download edition bittorrent to get the 4th cd, now started the download 3cd torrent again, for all others to get it... I will move the download discs to my edonkey dir as soon as it goes public, in 2 weeks or so. Appended: the 1270 rpms that are on the 4th cd, in case anyone wonders. mdk10.0cd4_list Edited March 5, 2004 by aRTee Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zero0w Posted March 6, 2004 Report Share Posted March 6, 2004 (edited) So I guess good user interface is important.. Mandrake's UI for printer setup works, Fedora and CUPS web UI doesn't. I am sure Fedora has its need for UI improvement, but if you have read my post, you need to turn off DrakFirewall on CUPS service in order for CUPS to work. The point to raise is, is there any doc talking about such diagnosis and fix required, in the CUPS or Mandrake documents? In other words, if CUPS failed to connect to another network printer in Mandrake, what will you do next? Yes, I am sure Mandrake works better in its default setup, but ESR has a point in good docs as a requirement. Edited March 6, 2004 by zero0w Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TopDog Posted March 6, 2004 Report Share Posted March 6, 2004 I'm seriously considering becoming a clubmember to get my hands on 10, but I feel Silver membership is overkill for me. Then I saw that Silver members get a different version with commercial products. What puzzled me was that Nvidia drivers where listed as commercial product. Does that mean that with the Download Edition for standard members, and later everyone, I still have to install Nvidia drivers manually? Anyone with Nforce2 chipset? With MDK 9.2 I struggled for days getting my Nforce2 online... don't feel like going through that again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aRTee Posted March 6, 2004 Report Share Posted March 6, 2004 The 4 clubmember cds have no non-gpl code. Since nvidia and ati drivers are not gpl, they are not included. Not really a big deal in most cases, but yes, you have to install the nvidia driver yourself. On the other hand, there seems to be an open source/gpl nforce2 lan driver, so that should not be a problem. BTW, just download them before you upgrade, and if possible, install on a fresh partition (dualboot with your old working linux install). Honestly, is the slightly easier use of the silver membership worth 60dollars? If yes, go for silver. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sitor Posted March 7, 2004 Report Share Posted March 7, 2004 Hello guys, I installed 10.0 Community last night. Apart from the problem to get the mouse working (see this thread), Everything worked quite smooth. Oh, yeah I was not able to get my machine to triple boot. He did not want to install 10.0 next to 9.2. Told me that he could not create a second partition with the name /. Apparently partitions need to have unique names, but then how do you dual boot two linux distro's? Anyway, at one side I'm glad I did the upgrade. Now I am forced to use 10.0 (had to give up 9.2 do to the above), I will be forced to test as well. And KDE 3.2 is indeed great, it boots faster, ... On the other hand there is one thing that bothers me quite a lot: there are currently no rpm sources at all. No Contrib, Commercial, plf, etc. The only thing there is is Distribution (that is what is already on the CD, right?). And I am no hero at all when it comes to installing in less userfriendly ways. Does anyone have a clue how long it takes before those rpms are created when a new distro comes out? Would the 9.2 ones work on 10.0? Is there any risk in trying (we speak about my only and sole machine)? The fact that this version is not free yet, does this mean that it will take longer before the rpms are created? Ciao, Sitor Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aRTee Posted March 7, 2004 Report Share Posted March 7, 2004 To install 2 linux distros next to eachother is to just name the / of the first /somethingelse on the second; you can check the installation page on my website to see what that can look like. Basically, for mdk10.0ce I used on partition formerly beta2 as / and the 9.2 / I gave the mountpoint /mnt/mdk92, just as I gave the 10.0rc1 the mount point /mnt/mdk10beta2. The 4th cd contains lots of what is normally in contrib, and for plf sources just look for cooker repositories. That should fix most problems. And yes, you can sometimes use mdk9.2 rpms; I do for java for instance; just go to where the rpm is (in this case, you have to download by hand) and do urpmi nameofpackage.rpm if there are unresolved or conflicting dependencies, it will tell you, and if it installs without a problem, all should be ok. I don't think it is wise to add source repositories for 9.2 to your 10 installation, that would be a fine way to make sure you corrupt your system. What do you need that is not on one of those 4 discs? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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