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      Mandriva Official Documentation

      Official documentation for extant versions of Mandriva can be found at doc.mandriva.com.   Documentation for the latest release may take some time to appear there. You can install all the manuals from the main repository if you have Mandriva installed - files are prefixed mandriva-doc.
    • paul

      Forum software upgrade   10/29/17

      So you may have noticed the forum software has upgraded !!!
      A few things that have changed. We no longer have community blogs (was never really used) We no longer have a portal page.
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Steve Scrimpshire

My Thoughts About Converting People

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I know this may have been hashed and rehashed, but I thought I would make a topic to gather some thoughts and info. I've been talking to my friends at work and the people I game with on Friday nights (yeah, I'm a 37 yr old D&D geek) and have discovered that I have them all mostly convinced to switch to Linux. What's the problem? GAMING

 

Sure, WineX solves some of the problem but:

(a) Why pay for a subscription to WineX to make sure that my games I just bought I can use on Linux when I can use them for free on Windows, which is already on my computer?

(b) Supporting WineX does not encourage companies to release Linux native versions of their games.

 

NWN, while not fulfilling their promise to release a Linux native client with the box, have finally released the client, but the tools don't work natively.

 

How can we pressure game manufacturers to release Linux native versions?

Edited by Steve Scrimpshire

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I am moderator of Norway's biggest forum for XP-users (yeah, I know, shame on me), and I've managed to make a lot of the forum-member to try Linux. Basically most of them like Linux, but since the average age of the forum-members are about 18, they all play games and keep dual-booting for this very reason.

 

So the conclusion I draw from that is that if Linux shall conqueror the home-computers in every home, we need more popular game titles available for Linux.

 

At the same time I read in a IT-related newspaper that PC's are loosing against game-consoles as gaming platform. Therefore I think it will be difficult to get the game-developers develop for Linux. They will rather put their efforts to developing for Xbox/PS2/Gamecube in addition to Windows. Especially now that these game-consoles start getting online...

 

As long as 99% of all OEM-computers come with Windows preinstalled, I don't think this will change. If we could get the OEM's to deliver more home PC's with Linux preinstalled instead of Windows, we might have a chance.

 

 

 

 

PS: Just love that "Spell Check" button :thumbs:

Edited by TopDog

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Sod the games. I am a business user. I want to use scanning technology so I have a paperless office, consequently I need software that will scan documents, with a multi page scanner as well as single page, and tie in to a database. All the ones I can find such as scan soft or scan to disk are compatable only with windows and none of them have any plans to take linux in to account. so i am stuck with windows. I have to use certain programmes guess what, no Linux equivalent available. Some of the web sites I use will not work with anything except internet explorer.

 

OK I can dual boot and use linux in conjunction with windows.

 

Yesterday I found i can't get broadband unless I upgrade to second edition windows 98 or XP whatever. The isp provider -telewest broadband tell me that they are not compatable with Linux. This latter bit I find hard to credit but have not yet investigated further.

 

I don't want to upgrade windows, I resent the MS assumption that i may be dishonest and have an illegal xp installation, but it loks like I have little choice. I am not a computer geek, to me it is a tool I need to use, the easy option is to stay with microsoft but I find the business practices offensive and not good for the long term.I object to being stitched up.

 

If Linux is serious about getting on to thr desktop they need to start getting a jump on windows in business applications, yes i use star office and mozilla I know they are better than the windows equivalents but they need to offer something not only better but convenient as well.

 

I hope the EEC fine the bastards abd make them unbundle their software. If we are really licky microsoft might pull out of europe in protest.

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Yesterday I found i can't get broadband unless I upgrade to second edition windows 98 or XP whatever. The isp provider -telewest broadband tell me that they are not compatable with Linux. This latter bit I find hard to credit but have not yet investigated further.

i find it hard to believe that any ISP would be windows only (maybe if you have a USB dsl modem??)... just about any broadband service should allow you to use a router/firewall. aside from the great benefits of protecting your network and keeping you logged in, the router should keep the ISP from being able to see what OS you're running.

 

as to web sites requiring IE, just use konqueror and set browser identification to IE for that particular site. the only time i use konqueror is to get into sites that tell me i am not using a "secure" browser. :lol:

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Well, I was referring to my layman friends who don't use their computers for business. I'm talking about bringing Linux to the home desktop.

Edited by Steve Scrimpshire

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Due to MyDoom, there was some discussion in my brothers home -- my sister-in-law had mentioned a mail from me, that I knew I didn't send. When she told me the title was 'test' I knew enough....

Needless to say, I told her I thought her pc may be infected; asked if she ever opens attachments (yes, sure, all her friends send her mails with attachments -- even if the attachment is a word doc with just text that might as well have been in the message body), then told her to shut down the pc and wait for my brother to come home.

 

That's when the discussions started. Luckily I'm in Zurich and they're in London.... ;)

 

Anyway, the short version: they had no MyDoom.

 

My brother uses Linux but due to his job he has very little time; unfortunately (for him :) ) he's a RH user, so all the tips on my site don't do him so much good, especially on configuring stuff and installing (mcc and urpmi just don't run on RH..).

Basically, he gets by fine with RHLinux, but his wife can't really use it, since apparently not everything works nicely (mail + web is all she needs, but that means also she has to be able to open any kind of attachment and view any kind of website with all kinds of content, which needs java, flash, real, etc working).

The quick solution: let her use windows.

 

In the end, I asked why they don't just ditch windows and get things right on linux (one time job). My sister-in-laws answer: the kids have MS games.

They get them for their birthdays, trade with friends, etc. They are 9 and 11 year old boys (and a 2 year old girl - but she doesn't play on the computer yet), and how would you explain to your kids that they can't play the games they get from friends, as presents etc....

 

I guess that a dualboot is the easy way in such a case.

 

 

 

On the whole, I think that wine is an inbetween solution, if it helps people switch, good.

WineX on the other hand, is getting people to keep buying windows games. Boot to win for a windows game, boot to linux for a linux game.

 

The only way to get the linux games going is if there is a market, it must be commercially viable. The game makers have no reason not to port other than that it costs and the gains are not sure (except MS, who will never port their games to linux).

 

So until enough linux games are sold, new games will lag heavily before appearing for linux, if appearing at all.

 

Truth be told, I think that the gamers will see themselves dualbooting at best for another couple of years to come. Face it, gamers are rarely on linux (except if your favorite titles are available), and so linux users don't buy many games.

Another thing: if you switch to linux, and you like and own some windows games that are available for linux too, will you buy them? My guess is that many will get a copy of the linux version and think to themselves that they already bought a licence with the windows version...

Since linux games (nwn for instance) come out with a lag in most cases, those who would buy it already have the windows version...

 

On the other hand, for most genres there are some games available, I just got some games that I thought might be nice: railroad tycoon, creatures (gave that away to my wifes niece and nephew, to play on their dualboot winme/mdk system -- that I made dualboot), and majesty.

Majesty is actually the only game that I really played..

 

So the avid gamer will find himself dualbooting, the one or two games per year gamer may already switch, etc.

 

The adoption of linux is in full swing, some large corporations will finalise their full switch before the end of the year, and Asia is starting to weigh in.

 

The mass is coming to linux, numbers that mean one thing: soon it will be really stupid if your hardware is not linux-compatible (open source or if need be binary drivers).

 

It will take some more time for games to get ported -- Asia doesn't have so much weight here in the west, since most people are used to winxp for 2 dollars, and less than that for most games......

By the time over 5% to 10% (2005, 2007 -- my guess) of all desktops run linux, you may see substantially more games for linux, and especially more concurrent releases for win and lin (and mac?).

 

For now, to convert we must concentrate on those who are ready to convert. Hmm, didn't I write a nice article to help determine if people are ready?

http://www.mandrake.tips.4.free.fr/switchsuccess.html

People who are not ready for linux for whatever reason, should not be wasting their (and our?) time with unsuccessful attempts.

 

 

Last thought for now:

the thing stopping gamers from switching to linux is not the games, it is the availabilty of illegal copies....

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I think Linux isn't user friendly enough...there isn't a drool-proof version, like windows, and people don't like that...I tried to convert a friend (he's a wanna-be geek, so it wasn't that hard) but within a week he got a pirated copy of windows and was back to that simply because he couldn't install things by double-clicking...that, and he had some windows progs he wanted to use...but he has a win XP, 1 year old laptop...he had linux on a 4 year old desktop...I don't see what we (I'm using almost the same comp...a bit older though) care about games though...our comps are too old for them anyways...

I personally am NEVER going back to windows...when I move out, I'm not even going to dual boot...I'm gonna build my comp myself, and save at least $300 by using linux...I'll just get a wineX subscription if I have to...but I don't play games...well...I play games, but I like linux because of that...it comes with games...windows doesn't...I prefer those crappy games...like BZflag, Chromium, Klickety, etc... Gameplay over graphics...and old games have better gameplay...and are easier to get to run on linux, either by emulator or a port...

But mainly, I prefer linux because I only use the comp for the net and IM...I'm on it during all my free time, but I just surf the web mostly...and even though this comp is soo old and only has 64MB SDRAM...mandrake 9.2 boots and runs so much faster than windows...and I have cable internet, so I leave AIM on all day...and it really annoyed me when I'd put up an away message when I went to school, and came home to find that my comp crashed and I didn't get any messages...I talk to ppl in many timezones, so I do sometimes get messages when I'm sleeping or at school...but when windows crashes every 6 or 7 hours, it gets very annoying. I've never even had to reboot linux because it was just going slow...linux is the highest form of stress relief :-P

Edited by Urza9814

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Hey - it's not all bad with the games front on Linux you know.

 

I've lost track of the number of times Windows games simply refused to run on my Windows 98 gaming box.(despite a "designed for Win 98" on the box!!!!)

DLL this, DirectX barf that. It's a nightmare.

 

Morphix have a Live CD gamer edition available for download from here

 

Quite a neat idea - i tried it out and it's packed solid with games, and boots into ICEvm lightweight window manager.

 

Also remember that America's Army has a Linux edition, as does the Sims -Happy Penguin is a great guide to the latest in Linux games.

Edited by kde-head

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I feel one way to get companies to bring a linux version to market is to email them and ask where and when a linux version is coming out. I got this idea from DOlsons old site (not sure if the mandrake eXPerience stills exists?). We are each only one person, but if we as indivdiuals all write comapny x, then perhaps company x will persue a linux version. Then as a community we should also embrace company x for bring a linux version to market, but if we don't buy the product, then why should they bother with another version. Sure some companys will continue to ignore the linux platform, but others may not.

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Sod the games. I am a business user. I want to use scanning technology so I have a paperless office, consequently I need software that will scan documents, with a multi page scanner as well as single page, and tie in to a database. All the ones I can find such as scan soft or scan to disk are compatable only with windows and none of them have any plans to take linux in to account. so i am stuck with windows. I have to use certain programmes guess what, no Linux equivalent available. Some of the web sites I use will not work with anything except internet explorer.

 

OK I can dual boot and use linux in conjunction with windows.

 

Yesterday I found i can't get broadband unless I upgrade to second edition windows 98 or XP whatever. The isp provider -telewest broadband tell me that they are not compatable with Linux. This latter bit I find hard to credit but have not yet investigated further.

 

I don't want to upgrade windows, I resent the MS assumption that i may be dishonest and have an illegal xp installation, but it loks like I have little choice. I am not a computer geek, to me it is a tool I need to use, the easy option is to stay with microsoft but I find the business practices offensive and not good for the long term.I object to being stitched up.

 

If Linux is serious about getting on to thr desktop they need to start getting a jump on windows in business applications, yes i use star office and mozilla I know they are better than the windows equivalents but they need to offer something not only better but convenient as well.

 

I hope the EEC fine the bastards abd make them unbundle their software. If we are really licky microsoft might pull out of europe in protest.

I suppose you looked already at this, but just to be sure :D :D...:

 

Doesn't the scansoftware work (kooka, ...)? I suppose not. And I don't see how internet can eb a problem ... it are all standards normally... But what you should do, is check if your modem is supported by linux liek already mentionned.

 

You can indeed fake the appearance that you are using explorer if that helps you, there is an extansion for taht for mozilla, ...

 

check on http://mozdev.org : you'll find quite some extensions there.

 

For the programs .. I suppose you looked arounf already ... so that would be more difficult/not doable(??) at the moment.

 

Hopes this helped some .... I hope :)

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The isp provider -telewest broadband tell me that they are not compatable with Linux.

 

that's just short hand for "the broadband software we supply is for Windows and Mac only".

 

Freeserve (my ISP) also do the same thing - they supply the ASDL modem, and a CD with Windows & Mac software.

 

Mandrake doesn't need ANY third party stuff for ASDL connectivity. I did have to download some Alcatel Linux drivers for my ASDL modem way back in the 8.x Mandrake days,but this comes as standard on 9.x releases.

Edited by kde-head

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Yes, some people are really not ready convert to Linux. I won't be installing it on my friend's computer for the following reasons:

 

1) He plays games on it, and nothing else

2) He changes games every 3 weeks

2) He won't be able to install anything - he can only click "next"

3) He thinks I'll always be around to fix it if viruses hit (again) <<tough luck I'm moving to England in september!

 

By the way, have any of you got an USB ADSL modem working?(mine is Aztech DSL500U) since I got to use windows everytime I use the net, or the Linux box in school. Windows freezes up every week or two, and it's driving me crazy. :furious3:

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"Well, I was referring to my layman friends who don't use their computers for business. I'm talking about bringing Linux to the home desktop."

 

I take your point. Its a catch twenty two situation. There would be linux games if more people used linux, but people won't use linux because there are no games and games won't be developed if there are no games.

 

I'm talking about bringing Linux to the home desktop."

 

There is a phonomenal small business market out there that would use open source office suites if they realised they existed just because of the cost. The next step to a linus computer would be easy to take. It would be an interesting marketing problem you have a bertter mousetrap but only an idiot would expect people to beat a path to your door.

 

Most people just want to use computers and the easier it is the better, that's where windows has an edge,p plus tye fact ots hard to buy a computer without windows.

 

Doesn't the scansoftware work (kooka, ...)? Did look at it (kooka) the issue is the database tie in. Bear in mind i don't want to get in to designing my own although I am beginning to realise that I probably could it would be a distraction from earning a living-just like this board pleasant but I feel guilty for skiving and I'm self employed. Ideally I want an off the shelf one but ultimately I will probably use one of the windows ones. I need a small home server as well so probably use linux for that.

 

I need to use this jkind of technology more and more, there is no getting away from it. Lots of small businesses are in the same posituion, those that can't adapt will fall by the wayside. You have to learn how to use windows anyway and dfeal with all the crashes etc. ;earning linux is only difficlt because of the dearth of material available. Bear in mind if you are computer literate using the internet to find information is quick and easy. If you are not where do you begin?

 

"that's just short hand for "the broadband software we supply is for Windows and Mac only"."

 

Thats why it didn't make any sense, there is no reason I can think of why it wouldn't, otherwise all the linux websites and servers wouldn't work. He also told me I would have to upgrade from windows 98 to at least second edition 98 and that since telewest was part owned by microsoft it was unlikely that they would ever support linux. I have a cable modem that works with both windows and linux. The quality of bullshit you get nowadays seems to be getting worse. If I didn't know any better that would be enough to stop me experimenting with Linux.

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Hi,

 

If it's annoying and works bad, better not switch to Linux: it's not ready yet for games and most people are not ready to switch as long as all Windows stuff come almost for free because of illegal copies.

 

As grendal said, sending e-mail to ask for a linux version can't hurt.

Also, the fact that the only serious company involved in linux game (Loki) went out of business is not a good example.

So, if you have the money, don't forget to give to game developers/company.

 

gmac:

I think that having a server on Linux and using Open Office and a free browser (Mozilla) on M$ Win clients is already a lot.

Controlling Office software and the Browser is one of the key of M$ control, probably even more than controlling the OS itself.

Be patient ;) big guys are coming: IBM, Novell and Sun.

 

roland

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Sod the games. I am a business user. I want to use scanning technology so I have a paperless office, consequently I need software that will scan documents, with a multi page scanner as well as single page, and tie in to a database. All the ones I can find such as scan soft or scan to disk are compatable only with windows and none of them have any plans to take linux in to account. so i am stuck with windows. I have to use certain programmes guess what, no Linux equivalent available. Some of the web sites I use will not work with anything except internet explorer.

 

OK I can dual boot and use linux in conjunction with windows.

 

Yesterday I found i can't get broadband unless I upgrade to second edition windows 98 or XP whatever. The isp provider -telewest broadband tell me that they are not compatable with Linux. This latter bit I find hard to credit but have not yet investigated further.

 

I don't want to upgrade windows, I resent the MS assumption that i may be dishonest and have an illegal xp installation, but it loks like I have little choice. I am not a computer geek, to me it is a tool I need to use, the easy option is to stay with microsoft but I find the business practices offensive and not good for the long term.I object to being stitched up.

 

If Linux is serious about getting on to thr desktop they need to start getting a jump on windows in business applications, yes i use star office and mozilla I know they are better than the windows equivalents but they need to offer something not only better but convenient as well.

 

I hope the EEC fine the bastards abd make them unbundle their software. If we are really licky microsoft might pull out of europe in protest.

Is this telewest in the UK? I have telewest broadband connected to a linux router. It shares the connection with three other machines - one linux only, one windows only and a dual boot laptop.

 

There is no reason not to have telewest broadband and linux - there isn't any software involved, just a cable modem which you connect to your NIC...

 

If this is the same telewest - feel free to PM me for any help etc...

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