10.0 Beta

[cardassianscot]

I've installed and tried out 10.0 Beta, so here's some thoughts. (I hope this is the right forum but I couldn't really find one that fit)

 

FIrst impression, it looks good but not that much different to 9.2. It runs much faster, the menu response is vastly improved on my machine (there seems to have been a problem with Xinerama which caused my KDE menus to be slow in 9.2). FInally, I have a system where I can log out and then log in as a different user (again a Xinerama problem that caused a crash in 9.x). In general a very nice system to use so far.

 

However, there are one or two niggles. So here we go.

 

Very strange package selection. Not only in the defaults which has a been a bit strange since 9.0, but in whats on the CDs. No kmail or evolution, although a kmail directory is created in ~/.kde/share. There's also no kopete which I thought was to be included with KDE 3.2.

 

There is also a new reordered menu system. Some of this makes sense. The new All Applications, Most used applications and Actions makes sense. However, the rest is bizarar and confusing. For example, CD burning (K3b) and archiving (ark etc.) are under System not Applications, to get a text editor you have to go to Development and then Editors instead of Edtiors or Text Editors under Applications. Am I the only one that thinks someone who isn't a programmer might want to use a text editor?

 

Just one error I've come across so far, running menudrake seems to break the menu system, I had to rm -fR .kde to get it back.

 

Just one more annoyance and now I'm really getting picky but for new users this could be a problem if things go wrong like they did for me. I have a USB ADSL modem which needs a firmware install to get it working. You can install this from a windows partition or from a floppy disk. I had a floppy disk that I used for a 9.2 install. However, for some reason the disk wouldn't read, I'm assuming I have a problem with the disk rather than reading disks in general here. I could see the file on the disk but it caused a crash when I tried to copy it. The problem, the network section of DrakConf didn't tell me about this error when it couldn't copy the fireware, so I spent a couple of hours trying to track down why my ADSL modem wasn't connecting. It would be helpful to be told that it couldn't copy the fireware, rather than eventually tracking this down since the file size for mgmt.o was 0. On a similar note this whole procedure needs to be better explained for newbies. For instance if your modem drivers doesn't install the fireware to c:\windows\system (like mine) Mandrake doesn't appear to be able to pick it up from a windows partition. If you simply copy the file (alcstusb.cat) to a floppy it won't work. You need mgmt.o if you are using a floppy. It turns out this is the same file renamed, but I figured this out by trial and error when I got desprate after the documentation didn't say where to get mgmt.o and an internet search turned up nothing. Would it really be that hard to look on a floopy for alcstusb.cat or mgmt.o or at least tell the user that mgmt.o is alcstusb.cat renamed?

 

Anyway enough rants, it all looks very good and for the moment anyway, I'm using this as my linux system.

Edited January 23, 2004 by cardassianscot

[cardassianscot]

One other issue I forgot. The scroll button doesn't work on PS/2 mice (I don't have a USB one to check if the same appies to USB mice). However, a check on Bugzilla has brought this up and it appears to be a problem with the 2.6 kernel.

[cardassianscot]

Kill that last post, a couple of reboots later and the mousewheel works.

[kkrekula]

Yes, the Beta runs really well on my system also. As I have a Nforce motherboard, I am happy to see that the new "forcedeth" driver is included, so I don't have to install Nvidias Nforce drivers.

 

Install the missing packages from a Cooker mirror. The new Kopete is really nice and Kmail seem to have improved also.

 

/Kenneth

Edited January 24, 2004 by kkrekula

[ramfree17]

For example, CD burning (K3b) and archiving (ark etc.) are under System not Applications

k3b i can understand as you will need some root permissions to burn a cd just like windows2000 requires some administrator privileges to use the burner.

 

ciao!

[aRTee]

k3b, when setup, doesn't need any root permissions, since the users that are setup to use the program are added to the cdwriter group.

Just as good unix management should be.

 

I already heard they really changed menus in cooker. Howabout some screenshots?

 

One comment to cardassianscot, you talk about a firmware, but I'm quite sure you mean: driver. Not the same thing.

I think you may want to mention the problem you had on the bug site:

http://qa.mandrakesoft.com

that way, they will know and who knows, fix things. Then the next version (final or before) will have this fixed..

 

Text editors in that development subsection is strange to me too, but maybe they assume that non-developers will use OOo writer....?

 

Could anyone please check for me if the LIRC (linux infra-red remote control) drivers are included this time around? I tried the 2.6 cooker kernel of early January, and there was no LIRC support,.. and my system is no fun without it...

The drivers that are needed are:

lirc_serial

lirc_i2c

lirc_dev

(the first one one system with a homebrew receiver, the second and third for lirc support of my tvcards remote + receiver)

 

(I think the following command should be ok to find them:

find /lib/modules/kernel -type f -name lirc*

but I'm not 100% sure...)

[pmpatrick]

Re lirc: I believe they are included. I don't have any, but I did notice in the kde control center>periperals there is a heading for infrared devices. When I clicked on it out of curiosity, I was asked if I wanted to install the drivers for these type of devices.

 

Some peculiarities I've noticed. They are still using devfs as far as I can see which I thought had been deprecated in kernel 2.6. I have two cd drives, one a writer and one regular. The configuration was screwed up for these. Both /dev/cdrom0 and /dev/cdrom1 where linked to scsi devices, i.e. both where set up to run under scsi emulation. For my regular drive, the fstab entry was for hda but there was no /dev/hda. Once I set up everything for scsi emulation in lilo it worked fine. Don't understand why that should be the default, however. I thought 2.6 did away with the need for scsi emulation.

 

I'm having a lot of sound problems as well. Initially, the sound worked fine(generic soundblaster card which has never had any problems in linux using es1371 module). After making some configuration changes in mcc unrelated to sound, I lost all sound. On reboot I got a no /dev/dsp error message. I had to do an "upgrade" reinstall to get the sound back. Still trying to figure out what's going on.

 

General impressions - speed is increased, particularly loading mozilla which comes up very fast even on the first time after booting. This is still pretty rough around the edges which is to be expected in a beta. I'm a little concerned about how usb devices are going to be handled. Are they going to use the old devfs or whatever replaces it in the new kernel and how stable is the devfs replacement at this point. God knows devfs sucked but at least I knew how to work with it.

[aRTee]

Could you do a

cd /lib/modules/[2.6kerneldir]

and then:

find . -type f -name lirc*

 

This should tell if the drivers for my tvcard are included. In the 2.6.0-1mdk kernel I have I only find:

./2.6.0-1mdk-i686-up-4GB/kernel/3rdparty/lirc/lirc_parallel.ko

./2.6.0-1mdk-i686-up-4GB/kernel/3rdparty/lirc/lirc_atiusb.ko

./2.6.0-1mdk-i686-up-4GB/kernel/3rdparty/lirc/lirc_gpio.ko

./2.6.0-1mdk-i686-up-4GB/kernel/3rdparty/lirc/lirc_it87.ko

./2.6.0-1mdk-i686-up-4GB/kernel/3rdparty/lirc/lirc_serial_irdeo_rem.ko

./2.6.0-1mdk-i686-up-4GB/kernel/3rdparty/lirc/lirc_serial_animax.ko

./2.6.0-1mdk-i686-up-4GB/kernel/3rdparty/lirc/lirc_serial_home.ko

./2.6.0-1mdk-i686-up-4GB/kernel/3rdparty/lirc/lirc_serial_irdeo.ko

./2.6.0-1mdk-i686-up-4GB/kernel/3rdparty/lirc/lirc_sir_actisys.ko

./2.6.0-1mdk-i686-up-4GB/kernel/3rdparty/lirc/lirc_sir_irda.ko

./2.6.0-1mdk-i686-up-4GB/kernel/3rdparty/lirc/lirc_sir_tekram.ko

 

so lirc_i2c and lirc_dev are missing... or I don't know how to set things up, maybe I need one of these newer drivers...?

[bvc]

someone would have to look in the kernel-source because some are not compiled in but could be.

 

devfs is still there but yes, it is depreciated and it says so if you read the help while doing make menuconfig (if compile). If you have the new udev, module-init-tools, and initscripts.....mkdir -p /udev && mkdir -p /sysfs.....put devfs=nomount in your bootloader, you'll be running the 2.6 as intended. You do not have to...yet. I do not understant all the scsi stuff that has occured. I did still have hdd=ide-scsi in my bootloader...../dev/scd0 still existed and could be used, though I had a /udev/s<something> that didn't work.

 

Sound? It's one of the reasons I'm back with 2.4. That and lm_sensors. The scheduling or something just will not give me sound without skips. I tried everything, many compiles bla bla...it's not my first rodeo. I also have the sb16pci but with w/alsa's 1371.

 

IMO, usb is beautiful in 2.6. Lighter, faster and smoother than ever. I don't have usb2 though so I can't comment on that. Usb is handled by hotplug/udev. Stuff in /dev will be auto if detected (is what I read the other day).

[bvc]

aRTee, sensors are al in their own dir....somewhere....I'm at work on win rt, now.

[bvc]

ooops...also stop devfs at boot and mount sysfs in fstab...and b4 someone ask...no, I'm not doing a tips and tricks for 2.6 -_- ....google.

Edited January 26, 2004 by bvc

[Guest anon]

Am running the 2.6 kernel without any problems but,....

I d-loaded the new MDK-10 beta1, burnt the iso and ran it, "press enter to install bla bla bla" it runs for 5 seconds and then the screen goes black, tried a text install, same thing.

Found out later that one of the known issues/bugs with the first beta, is it doesn't recognise USB during the installation. And guess what? my monitor is USB.

Ah well, i did a urpmi --auto-select and managed to install most of the new goodies, but not all.

[aRTee]

bvc, thanks for the info and update.

 

I can comment on usb2 on the 2.6 kernel.

It is FAST. More so than 2.4.. I got speeds of over 22MB/s, whereas with 2.4 they seemed to be just below 20MB/s -- note: this is the total speed for a 700MB file, there are peaks up to 55MB/s or so at times. My guess is that the external hd is the bottleneck with 2.6....

 

Anon, your monitor is usb?? You mean, some of the data goes through usb, you do have a vga connection..?

[bvc]

Links

http://thomer.com/linux/migrate-to-2.6.html

http://www.kerneltrap.org/

http://kerneltrap.org/node/view/1893

http://www.kernel.org/pub/linux/utils/kern...otplug/udev-FAQ

 

Well in the vanilla 2.6.1 there's no lirc anything (Third Party). Like I said though all of the following are there (vanilla), not all are already chosen to be compiled in.

[root@localhost i2c]# ls
algos/      i2c-core.ko     i2c-dev.ko     i2c-sensor.ko     Makefile
built-in.o  i2c-core.mod.c  i2c-dev.mod.c  i2c-sensor.mod.c
busses/     i2c-core.mod.o  i2c-dev.mod.o  i2c-sensor.mod.o
chips/      i2c-core.o      i2c-dev.o      i2c-sensor.o
i2c-core.c  i2c-dev.c       i2c-sensor.c   Kconfig
[root@localhost i2c]# cd algos
[root@localhost algos]# ls
built-in.o          i2c-algo-bit.mod.o  i2c-algo-pcf.c      i2c-algo-pcf.mod.o
i2c-algo-bit.c      i2c-algo-bit.o      i2c-algo-pcf.h      i2c-algo-pcf.o
i2c-algo-bit.ko     i2c-algo-ite.c      i2c-algo-pcf.ko     Kconfig
i2c-algo-bit.mod.c  i2c-algo-ite.h      i2c-algo-pcf.mod.c  Makefile
[root@localhost algos]# cd /share/xbkup/usr/src/linux-2.6.1/drivers/i2c/busses
[root@localhost busses]# ls
built-in.o         i2c-i810.o             i2c-sis5595.mod.c
i2c-ali1535.c      i2c-ibm_iic.c          i2c-sis5595.mod.o
i2c-ali1535.ko     i2c-ibm_iic.h          i2c-sis5595.o
i2c-ali1535.mod.c  i2c-iop3xx.c           i2c-sis630.c
i2c-ali1535.mod.o  i2c-iop3xx.h           i2c-sis630.ko
i2c-ali1535.o      i2c-isa.c              i2c-sis630.mod.c
i2c-ali15x3.c      i2c-ite.c              i2c-sis630.mod.o
i2c-ali15x3.ko     i2c-keywest.c          i2c-sis630.o
i2c-ali15x3.mod.c  i2c-keywest.h          i2c-sis96x.c
i2c-ali15x3.mod.o  i2c-nforce2.c          i2c-sis96x.ko
i2c-ali15x3.o      i2c-nforce2.ko         i2c-sis96x.mod.c
i2c-amd756.c       i2c-nforce2.mod.c      i2c-sis96x.mod.o
i2c-amd756.ko      i2c-nforce2.mod.o      i2c-sis96x.o
i2c-amd756.mod.c   i2c-nforce2.o          i2c-velleman.c
i2c-amd756.mod.o   i2c-philips-par.c      i2c-via.c
i2c-amd756.o       i2c-philips-par.ko     i2c-via.ko
i2c-amd8111.c      i2c-philips-par.mod.c  i2c-via.mod.c
i2c-amd8111.ko     i2c-philips-par.mod.o  i2c-via.mod.o
i2c-amd8111.mod.c  i2c-philips-par.o      i2c-via.o
i2c-amd8111.mod.o  i2c-piix4.c            i2c-viapro.c
i2c-amd8111.o      i2c-piix4.ko           i2c-viapro.ko
i2c-elektor.c      i2c-piix4.mod.c        i2c-viapro.mod.c
i2c-elektor.ko     i2c-piix4.mod.o        i2c-viapro.mod.o
i2c-elektor.mod.c  i2c-piix4.o            i2c-viapro.o
i2c-elektor.mod.o  i2c-prosavage.c        i2c-voodoo3.c
i2c-elektor.o      i2c-prosavage.ko       i2c-voodoo3.ko
i2c-elv.c          i2c-prosavage.mod.c    i2c-voodoo3.mod.c
i2c-frodo.c        i2c-prosavage.mod.o    i2c-voodoo3.mod.o
i2c-i801.c         i2c-prosavage.o        i2c-voodoo3.o
i2c-i801.ko        i2c-rpx.c              Kconfig
i2c-i801.mod.c     i2c-savage4.c          Makefile
i2c-i801.mod.o     i2c-savage4.ko         scx200_acb.c
i2c-i801.o         i2c-savage4.mod.c      scx200_acb.ko
i2c-i810.c         i2c-savage4.mod.o      scx200_acb.mod.c
i2c-i810.ko        i2c-savage4.o          scx200_acb.mod.o
i2c-i810.mod.c     i2c-sis5595.c          scx200_acb.o
i2c-i810.mod.o     i2c-sis5595.ko         scx200_i2c.c
[root@localhost busses]# cd /share/xbkup/usr/src/linux-2.6.1/drivers/i2c/chips 
[root@localhost chips]# ls
adm1021.c      eeprom.mod.c  Kconfig     lm78.ko     lm85.mod.o     w83781d.c
adm1021.ko     eeprom.mod.o  lm75.c      lm78.mod.c  lm85.o         w83781d.ko
adm1021.mod.c  eeprom.o      lm75.h      lm78.mod.o  Makefile       w83781d.mod.c
adm1021.mod.o  it87.c        lm75.ko     lm78.o      via686a.c      w83781d.mod.o
adm1021.o      it87.ko       lm75.mod.c  lm83.c      via686a.ko     w83781d.o
built-in.o     it87.mod.c    lm75.mod.o  lm85.c      via686a.mod.c
eeprom.c       it87.mod.o    lm75.o      lm85.ko     via686a.mod.o
eeprom.ko      it87.o        lm78.c      lm85.mod.c  via686a.o
[root@localhost chips]# cd /share/xbkup/usr/src/linux-2.6.1/                 
[root@localhost linux-2.6.1]# find . -type f -name lirc*
[root@localhost linux-2.6.1]# ls /lib/modules
2.4.23-2.tmb.2mdk/  fglrx/
[root@localhost linux-2.6.1]# cd /lib/modules/2.4.23-2.tmb.2mdk
[root@localhost 2.4.23-2.tmb.2mdk]# find . -type f -name lirc*
./kernel/3rdparty/lirc/lirc_serial.o.gz
./kernel/3rdparty/lirc/lirc_dev.o.gz
./kernel/3rdparty/lirc/lirc_gpio.o.gz
./kernel/3rdparty/lirc/lirc_saa7134.o.gz
./kernel/3rdparty/lirc/lirc_i2c.o.gz
./kernel/3rdparty/lirc/lirc_parallel.o.gz
./kernel/3rdparty/lirc/lirc_bt829.o.gz
./kernel/3rdparty/lirc/lirc_it87.o.gz
[root@localhost 2.4.23-2.tmb.2mdk]#

Edited January 27, 2004 by bvc

[pmpatrick]

ARTee, I modprobed the four lirc modules you posted and got module not found on all. Still can't figure out where they stuck the modules myself; the directory structure has changed significantly.

 

Finally straightened out my sound module and got it loading at boot and now eth0 module refuses to load; it's like it's not even there in modules.conf; no error message on boot or anything. It just doesn't load. It loads when I modprobe after I boot and works fine but will not load from modules.conf. Can't figure out whether it's beta weirdness or modules load differently in 2.6. mcc>Network is useless at this point.

 

Can't do anything with the kernel since there's no kernel source on the 10 beta cds and I can find nothing in Cooker for this kernel(2.6.1-1mdk #1). Looks like they already moved on to 2.6.2-test.