Jump to content

LindowsOS


ac_dispatcher
 Share

Recommended Posts

1) I will not try Lindows in any case.

It is the MS of linuxland and I won't waste my time on that.

SuSE, FC and Debian are interesting to me, as is Gentoo.

Actually i wouldn't lump SUSE in there, they use proprietry yast to limit distribution.

 

Debian, Mandrake, Gentoo, LFS, FC (some other lesser known distros) certainly but not SUSE in that group.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Replies 61
  • Created
  • Last Reply

Top Posters In This Topic

Ok, some still miss my point.

 

Yes I know Lindows has contributed to the FLOSS community.

 

But compared to Mandrake they are the MS of Linuxland.

 

 

 

 

Those who see no problem there, please consider this:

 

(Suppose) Lindows gets marketshare.

The real and only way onto the average desktop is through preinstalled preconfigged systems. Not any other way.

 

So Lindows gets big on those systems. They make deals with hardware makers.

Then they get lindows to run on that hardware. Where no other linux can run.

Do you think they wouldn't do that if they couldn't?

 

Lindows is looking for hooks just as much as MS.

 

Johnnyv:

SuSE now is really another story. Yast IS opensource, just not GPL. I found out after some discussion that there really is a lot of FUD about this. More than about lindows.

In the case of SuSE the point is: they just want to make money, and want no one else to make money off of their product (except resellers naturally). This is good and fair to me, although yes, I don't like the Yast license -- GPL really would be better. But I still classify (for now) SuSE in line with Mdk, FC etc.

Point is also: you can actually copy SuSE and pass to friends. You cannot however, ask money for that.

 

 

Gnubie: releasing one GPL product doesn't mean Lindows is on the good side. Releasing plenty of closed source stuff does mean they're on the bad (or: not so good) side.

Remember IE? Everyone got it for free...

Ok, not a fair comparison, that one wasn't open source...

Back to this html editor: ever tried quanta plus in combination with konqueror? Can do about all the things that are advertised there (maybe not the wysiwyg editing, but hey, make up your mind: do real html and work the code or quick and dirty, i.e. wysiwyg and just use OOo). Lindows just talks nicely about and around it. Nothing new there, really.

 

 

 

Gowator:

 

Q: you can install Lindows as many times as you want, but can you pass it to me? Or to others?

 

Ok, I do agree with your pragmatic sense: if Mandrake doesn't work, and Lindows does, I see your point of using it.

 

 

I'm not falling for any FUD here, maybe I'm just paranoid, but in any case, if you move away from MSWin for reasons of FREEDOM instead of Free Beer, Lindows is a bad choice. There is no FUD in that.

Just as much as Xandros and Lycoris are not so good on the Freedom side.

So, I don't have to try it out to find out it actually works nice. This is irrelevant, beside the point. I have win2k at work, which actually works quite nicely -- hasn't crashed so far. (Just hate the win windowmanager and that I cannot get it to behave like I want..) And: hardware support is great, works fine on most laptops, incl suspend to disk etc. Plenty of software available too....

Still won't touch it with a ten foot pole if I can help it.

 

 

The GPL and only the GPL is a guarantee for user freedom, and to work as a community together to improve gpl products will benefit the community as a whole. To invest time, effort and money into proprietary stuff will not be to the benefit of the whole community.

As such I see a point in encouraging people to use Mandrake (FC, Debian, Gentoo, yes even SuSE) since it comes back at the whole community, and to discourage people to use LindowsOS, Xandros, Lycoris, since that is to the benefit of a few, and licences can be changed since they own all the rights.

 

BTW anyone saw how lycoris changed directions lately, angering many supporters?

 

 

Yes, LindowsOS is just another distro. No, it is not just another distro, it is just another non-fully Open Source distro. And people (newbies) should be made aware of that. There is a difference.

The moment people realise that, they can make their choice. Fine with me, just as it is fine with me if someone decides to keep using MSwin.

Until they realise there is a difference and they have a choice to make, it is necessary to explain things to them.

 

 

Frankly, I do believe that if Lindows could get deals with hardware makers (which they can if they become the largest linux distro in terms of sales, and if they get preinstalled preconfigged systems on the shelves) they will go for proprietary lindows-only drivers. Anyone saw what happened to MP3.com, M.Robertsons last venture?

Why they would do that? Well, why not? It would improve their market position, it would improve their bottom line, which is all they care about. And since they are not fully open source, there would be no way to fork.

I have no problems with a company trying to make money, until it becomes bad for the community. MS only wants to make money too. I doubt people here don't realise how bad that is for the whole world. If you don't know, think, read, surf some more. There are really many reasons.

Lindows is not bad for the community yet, but haven't we learnt? If there are alternatives that don't have this risk, shouldn't we promote those? That's why I say: stay off lindows and go for Mandrake (if you can, depending on hardware support). Which was the question at hand in this topic.

 

BTW The next step after lindows gets marketshare, closed lindows only drivers etc could be that Lindows gets bought by MS. But that is only a next step...

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Lindows/MS aquisition could only ever be a hostile takkeover bid.

However I think Robertson isn't Gates.

The Problem with GATES is he doesn't see any end to makeing moneym its a reason in itself.

when "Robertson gets bored he sells off, so what....

 

Actualy MP3.com is the foundation for all electronic music. So he sold it and now its ogg OS, but he actually got the idea up and running and provided a boost.

In other words he took it to the masses

Thats what he's trying to do with Linux.

But fundamentally its open source. A few (very few) config tools are not but the kernel is just the linux kernel. KDE is just KDE etc.

 

At the moment he's actually encouraging manufactuerers to make linux drivers. If they have to be closed source then thats bad but its a step in the right direction !!!

 

Regarding preinstalation it isn't necassary with Lindows, even my mum could install it if she could find the CD drive !!!

I don't really like it for me but it works on the laptop and as you say its a pragmatic decision BUT there is a lot of FUD.

 

Question

 

Does LindowsOS comply with the Open Source agreements?

Answer

Absolutely! Lindows.com is a strong supporter of Open Source software and organizations such as Debian and KDE through financial and other means.

 

Some of the Software Programs included in LindowsOS are distributed under the GNU General Public License and other similar open source license agreements ("OSLAs") which, among other rights, permit You to copy, modify and redistribute certain Software Programs, or portions thereof, and have access to the source code of certain Software Programs, or portions thereof.

 

Does Lindows.com support Open Source?

Answer

YES.

 

Lindows.com makes the source code available for anyone who we provide binary or executable files to--namely LindowsOS users, per the GPL.

 

Lindows.com honors and abides by all applicable licensing and is proud to be a strong supporter of the Open Source community by helping to advance several Open Source initiatives. We financially support several open source organizations (GAIM, for example). We have engaged several open source software development companies. We contribute code back to open source projects to help them advance. We're committed to being a solid corporate citizen in the open source community and hope our long term presence propels more consumer friendly net software development.

 

Additional information on LindowsOS source code can be found

here

 

Or more simply see : this link

 

Im not trying to sell it, I jujst want to point out theres a LOT OF FUD that you don't realise until you look!!!!

WHY

IMHO Robertson is not interested in taking away thr market share of ither distro's. He's not even aiming at the same market. Hence Lindows don't want to fight against Mandrake or Debian Zealots....

 

It's not for you and me (although it is for my laptop <G> ) but it is for a lot of people. In fact why would anyone move from debian to Lindows if they are an advanced user.... more the other way round!!!

:tm::tm::tm::tm::tm::tm::tm::tm::tm: :P

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Gowator:

I agree.

 

But quoting some marketing talk from Lindows isn't necessary... :D

 

It's good that Lindows is trying to get drivers, even if not open source.

My fear is just that they would be, at some point, lindows only binary drivers. (For instance, precompiled for lindows, not available for other kernels.)

As long as the drivers are not restricted to lindows, it's a good thing if they manage to get them.

 

Regarding installation: your mum shouldn't have to do it. It should be done in the shop.

As an aside: I don't want to pay the MS tax on a laptop, and I wouldn't want to pay a lindows tax either. Now, as for a Mandrake tax... :D

 

I still stand by my point: make people aware that there are fully GPL distros that are not hard to learn, to install, to use.

People can only make a choice if they know between what they are choosing.

 

You are talking about lindows aiming at MSwin users looking for something different. Isn't that the market that mandrake is also addressing? If yes, they are competing. Just have a look and see how many people started their linux journey with Mandrake.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I think its a different kinda user.

BTW: My mum might be getting Lindows if I can get her a decent DSL contract this XMAS.

she has no wish to learn ...let alone configure or compile.

My only other option is really a MAC but Im a bit short of cash right now....

 

Some people come to mandrake and then give up and go back to Windows., especially the ones who don't find your site.

 

I fully agree that all closed source drivers is bad.... VERY BAD... but Lindows also uses opensource where available and where possible.

If you look at wifi support (specifically 802.11g) the US makes it illegal to distribute them closed source. Mandrake is French but I doubt they will ever include them, just as they never included libdvdcss. I believe Lindows will!!!

It adopts a more pragmatic attitude.

So for someone with built in 802.11g on their laptop there's no choice...

Same with m company, we could have mandrake laptopns BUT we couldn't have libdvdcss or 802.11g becuase we have a US fillialle which would be seized !!

 

when you look at the CHOICE aspect the US legislation has a lot to answer for. Quite why the Norwegian courts even entertained proesecuting Jon Johansen is beyond me they should have turned round to the US and said GO $%^& YOURSELF.

What right does one country have to attempt to prosecute someone in another country who is doing nothing wrong by the rules of that country.

 

Of course they only do this over commercial causes. Its illegal to jaywalk in the US but not in the UK, although it is in Norway and in France its technically illegal but who really cares <G> I don't see the US pressing for British people to be arrested and treid for jaywalking..

Of course not its ridiculous....its non of there business but in the case of commerce they make an exception.

Sorry this is drifting political but it is relevant to the thread.

 

The point is for encryption etc. (see Iraq LUG group thread) the Us extends its trade arms and issues sanctions against other countries, like excluding countries from bidding to rebuild iraq if they didn't actually take part in destroying it (sorry thats not entirely accurate but Im making a point) Who do they think they are to do that, they say its now a free state and liberated but they are only allowsed to do business with who America says they can!!!

 

This is one of the things I don't like about America. I like lots and love a few but this one stinks like 3 week old fish!!

 

The point Im trying to make is Robertson is an insider, he manoevers around this on the inside and achives what he sets out to do by playing within the law but stretching it where necassary. Mandrake is an outsider. they get told in no uncertain terms no doubt that if they include libdvdcss (illegal only in america) that they will not be allowed to sell in the US and their assets in the US will be seized.

 

So they do nothing....

come on, guys its a French distro....

A bit of 'systeme D' wouldn't go amis!!!

 

So this is a point in favour of Lindows ... guess who is more likely to actually be able to export a linux system to Iraq.....

 

So what I mean is some of this balances out.

Lindows paid for and developed LEGAL worldwide dvd decryption for Linux. If you are a member its 5$ but its available to you too if you have Debian for $49.

 

Mandrake has a much longer history but still relies on PLF for DVD playback.

Not only that but theoretically even my personal laptop could be ceased at customs if i travel to the states.

 

regarding OS tax....

I agree. However why not suggest to Roberston a refund!!

it might already exist.....

As for preinstalled YES... I agree BUT its also a CHOICE.

But this is where Lindows is making big strides...its worrying about the GPL nature BUT i honestly don't beleive the two are competing.

For developers its no contest... (Mandrake->SuSe,Deb,etc.) Mandrake is the starting point and more control from then on.

For those who want to learn then mandrake makes an ideal spring board, however notice how people get dissatisfied with it after a while and go for more complicated distro's like Debian or Slack....

Mandrake for me is my first recommendation to any noobie who shows any interest in learning and understanding. However for those who don't want to then Lindows is a valid choice. Many Windows user are unaware of what the GPL even is....and in the long term only a small percentage will ever know or even care. that is sad BUT thats the way of life.

How many people know how an internal combustion engine works... yet the drive cars and take advantage of the technology without understanding it.

I wish people were more interested, I really do but in many cases your trying to explain something totally foreign to them.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Some people come to mandrake and then give up and go back to Windows., especially the ones who don't find your site.

 

Hmm, don't know how much my site really helps, but thanks for the compliment. I rather like to believe that linux today is not for everyone; some don't want to learn a new system, some want their games etc. In that sense, there is no (big) difference between Lindows, Mandrake or other linuxes..

 

Lindows paid for and developed LEGAL worldwide dvd decryption for Linux. If you are a member its 5$ but its available to you too if you have Debian for $49.

Sorry, that wasn't all that much to develop. It's more like: Robertson arranged for the paperwork to be done, and is cashing in since. This scores no credit points imho; it's not like he donated any money, just used the DMCA to make some, instead of challenging it at this point, which would be the heroic thing to do...

 

regarding OS tax....

I agree. However why not suggest to Roberston a refund!!

Actually, yes that may work. But only if the laptop can also function correctly with other linuxes.. But nonetheless a good idea.

 

 

 

Mandrake for me is my first recommendation to any noobie who shows any interest in learning and understanding. However for those who don't want to then Lindows is a valid choice.

 

And that's where I disagree. If Mandrake (excepting hardware support stuff) is not good enough, I doubt that lindows is. It really still is linux, and if you're going to learn then why not with a real free os...

 

Many Windows user are unaware of what the GPL even is....and in the long term only a small percentage will ever know or even care. that is sad BUT thats the way of life.

Or, you can say: we have to put in an effort and help people get educated about things... Which is what I prefer (hence my website)....

 

How many people know how an internal combustion engine works... yet the drive cars and take advantage of the technology without understanding it.

 

As if people using linux or windows actually know how hardware works on the inside.. Very few do, and really it hardly matters.

But people need to know what kind of petrol they have to use, and why. And people care if they get more miles out of one kind compared to the other.

And many people do care if one type is more environmental friendly (should I say: less environmentUNfriendly) than another.

 

Before caring about things must come the awareness / knowledge of any kind of difference.

And it is up to FLOSS advocates to make it clear that there is a difference, and that that difference matters.

 

So again, to come back to the first message I posted in this thread, I'm negatively surprised that people here don't seem to care, and in many cases are not aware. Sad but true..

 

Sure, Robertson works on the inside, he goes with the flow. This is one side of reality, the opportunistic one. So yes, he's a good businessman. But the other side of reality is that the DMCA is not something to work within, but something to object to.

By making legal dvd playback on linux possible for paying customers, the pressure is relieved on reexamining the DMCA. This is a bad thing. So in that sense, Robertson has not done the linux community any service.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

apparently my point was missed.

 

Lindows OS is another distro, done in a different way, specifically geared towards people who don't want to worry about choice. If it's not what you like in your distro, don't use it, but they have done NOTHING wrong (unlike MS), so for the love of all things Linux just let it go!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

thanks for the tip, but as I mod I have offered to read threads and make sure things don't get out of hand.

 

i am also free to state my opinion.

 

but thanks for the tip.

Edited by tyme
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Tyme, I don't see any point where things may get out of hand in this thread..

Gowator and I (well mostly) are having a discussion on the merits of Lindows as a linux distro.

 

True, they have not done anything big wrong, but that's beside the point. The point is what Lindows IS, not what the company has done right or wrong.

 

My points are: they can potentially do more wrong than Mandrake, in terms of being (or not) a benefit to the community -- let's just say there is a bigger risk if Lindows gets 50% marketshare on all pc's than if Mandrake gets that (and no other linux gets anthing, the rest just MSWin). Second: I think people should be informed, or at least, if they ask, should be made aware that there is a difference. Those who don't know have no reason to care.

 

I have learnt some interesting things from this discussion, some varying viewpoints have been presented and those interested have some more material to think about, take into consideration.

 

I see no reason to 'drop it' or anything of the kind as long as we are putting good arguments back and forth. Nobody is playing on the man, and there is no reason to either. Just some grown-ups with different opinions and vewpoints discussing things. This thread is about LindowsOS and that's what's being discussed. Seems good to me.

 

 

Darkelve: great quote. ;)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

i wasn't saying anything would get out of hand here, i was just stating what my "job" here requires me to do.

 

Anyways, the point I'm attempting to make is that what you are going back and forth about is essentially what LindowsOS intends to be. You can argue whether that's good or bad 'til you're blue in the face, and by all means feel free, but I just felt the need to say that it isn't going to get either of you anywhere :) which I'm sure you were aware of anyways ;)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Let me make another remark:

 

Since Linux is free, there is no money to be made from the product. This means money has to be made from other areas such as packaging and service. Because there is also a lot of competition, companies actually have to DELIVER this service.

 

Is Lindows competing? Yes.

Is Lindows delivering? In my short experience, their service actually is very good.

 

Now: is Microsoft competing? No, because they do not WANT to compete.

 

So I would hardly say it is the M$ of Linux land. You're just afraid they will become that.

 

But if it gets really bad, half of the community will jump on them and lynch them and I doubt they will still get much co-operation of Debian and other developers.

 

In fact, for Joe sixpack (for whom it is really intended), it is probably *better* than Windows. If Lindows looks good, this will have a positive effect on Linux in general. If it looks bad, it's bad for Linux in general.

 

There's competition here, there's a control mechanism. There's a targeted market. It is relatively easy to switch to another Linux distro with KDE. You do not have to buy a license for every singe computer/cpu. Now Linux desktop systems have matured/are maturing, Operating systems will ultimately have only one choice: play fair, or die.

 

Second: I think people should be informed, or at least, if they ask, should be made aware that there is a difference. Those who don't know have no reason to care.

 

That, I agree with.

 

I see no reason to 'drop it' or anything of the kind as long as we are putting good arguments back and forth. Nobody is playing on the man, and there is no reason to either. Just some grown-ups with different opinions and vewpoints discussing things. This thread is about LindowsOS and that's what's being discussed. Seems good to me.

 

I think this is an excellent thread for people interested about Lindows, Mandrake and a comparison between the two. In fact, I doubt you can find a lot of places on the web where this is discussed so openly and you find valid arguments on both sides.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Loading...
 Share


×
×
  • Create New...