LindowsOS

[ac_dispatcher]

Ive been using MDK on and off since 6.0. and did the daily use migration around 9.0. I have read some harsh comments toward LindowsOS and Michael Robertson. I’m just wondering what Im missing. :unsure:

 

1. Ok we have a Linux distro that’s runs as root (not good). But come to think of it I don’t use a root pwd with my MDK. not as bad as being root but still bad. My thought is its my home computer with no direct internet connection (firewall/router - see coyote linux).

2. He charges for his distro (alot do)

3. He charges for updates / apps (there is a free resource too)

 

My thought - so what

 

A windows user is used to paying out for just about everything. From some reviews Ive tread Lindows does a very good job with documentation. And they are very good for the Linux newbie.

 

My first Linux distro was RedHat 5.1 (Manhattan). I spent a very long time learning the system. What did I do after I was a little comfortable? I tried Slackware. Now thru the years I have tried many distros. Heck I have a 800mhz AMD machine that I change Distros each month on.

 

I would think that if someone changed from M$ Winblows to Lindows it would be good. Why? Because there is a good chance they would try other distro's when get the feel of Linux. Maybe RedHat or Slackware or Mandy who cares it will be another Linux user.

 

What’s kind of funny is what seems to be a personal battle he has with M$. Would it not benefit Linux in the long run? I mean in the news is better then no news right? As for those who say Linux is not ready for the home desktop, I beg to differ. Who here remembers RedHat back in the 5.0 time frame? Id say we have come a long way. I would even say a windows only user would only need about 2-3 weeks to get a good working feel of KDE.

 

Now dont take be as a pro Lindows user, but I have not read that much to put me against it. Can someone expain why alot are so against Lindows?

 

 

Mods/Admins

I put this thread in Everything Linux not Other Distros. I thought since it was a general talk topic and about a Lindows problem this is where it should be. Please move if needed

[Pzatch]

Actually i think that if Mandrake made the same claims as M$ does in its adds it could charge the same as M$. Mandrake would at least get closer to the claims. There are so many people out there that actually think price has something to do with quality. If you claim linux is free they look at it as something cheap and inferior. Put a big price on it, claim its better, claim it has more features, and then tell them they will need to invest in some new expensive hardware to run it. Heck if you seperated out the firewall, the server options and the games they would still like it at the same price. Then you could sell all the other parts to them. Hey only the best use the best and really when you want security for your desktop why use something you know has problems? Definately not for the comon user. They don't even have to see it to just KNOW they will like it.

 

If lindows can make sales to the general populous then heck its only good for linux.

The fact that it runs a little like windows and looks a little like it thats only because thats what everyone expects. We can't change what people expect without getting more linux out there. if it takes preconfiguring it and "dumbing it down" then it will have to be done. those who want a "pure" linux will always have that option.

 

normal windows users just don't beleive half the claims of the linux comunity. Its not what they expect for free.

[Gnubie]

Well, I can see Lindows being a good stepping stone OS for people wanting to leave windows and enter the Linux world, but I don't see it as an OS you want to use long term, and nor is it free.

[Gowator]

Well,

I thinks its just snobbery.

Mandrake isn't suitable for my mum. She would be challenged with a Mac or XP, it simply isn't her thing.

Michael Robertson rose to fame with MP3.com. He pretty obviously doesn't like Bill Gates and paid with his own money to make a alternative OS.

 

Not only that but I think he realises he has enough money. I did an old poll, who would you prefer to be, I didn't list Robertson but I did list Branson.

By his own admission he is rich, he pays his taxes and he is trying to do something with his money. Bill Gates is just obsessed with making more money/dominating the world.

 

Now I believe Robertson is a perfect example of the political compass thing. He's obviously a capitalist BUT he's also a libertarian. More than anything he bleives in FREE CHOICE.

 

He is trying to give THE MASSES a choice other than Windows and his distro is written for the masses.

People forget that FREE software means FREE SPEECH not FREE BEER. He doesn't charge a lot.

 

Lindows is 59.99 per year!!!!

 

Mandrake Discovery is 39.00. Every six months. Mandrake expert with 5 incidsents is a further 160$ 10,000$ for whatever they call Professional support 20 incidents. Club memebership for Standard is $60 per year and $120 for the Silver memebership that gets you proprietry drivers etc.

 

I don't think its fair to say Lindows is expensive. I got Lifetime membership for $100!!!!

 

It is MUCH easier for a non-interested person to just USE. If all you want is basic SOHO then it just works like a Mac.

 

Will you learn as much as Mandrake, definately not. Like OS-X you can use the 'advanced' functionality but 90% of people won't. (like my mum)

Then again you don't learn as much with Mandrake as with LFS.... its a question of who its for.

 

Click n run just works.

 

For me its definately not replacing Mandrake but for my laptop it works. No fiddling etc.

Click N Run already has an empty WiFi section. I have no doubt once they negotiate a deal the WiFi drivers will just work in the same way.

And you always have choice....

I can install Xine as Xine OR I can pay $5 and get the commercial lifetime personal license for commercial DVD encoder/decoder which is much better than the FREE libdvdcss.

My laptop is challenged anyway so libdvdcss challenges it into jerky playing, the commercial drivers don't.

 

Is it good for Linux, ????

Is it good for choice DEFINATELY. Lots of people oput there (Im sure you know lots) are challenged by mansdrake and even then they don't wanna learn. The computer is just a tool to write up their letters or surf.

[Darkelve]

The computer is just a tool to write up their letters or surf.

Yeah, and according to Windoze, they need minimum 256 RAM to run winXP and Internet Exploiter (probably will be 512 for Longhorn) and a minimum HD of 40GB to store their letters....

 

 

 

I also wonder:

 

if you make an effort, can you make LindowsOS secure (no trolling intended)?

Edited December 13, 2003 by Darkelve

[Gowator]

secure Lindows:

Yeah I guess but its not the point.

Its not a distro for you and me (except my laptop) etc. its just for people like my mum who will neverlearn and just want a consumer appliance.

 

You can use apt and get anything from the Deb trees but if your going to do this extensively then better to start off somewhere else.

 

However not running as root is as simple as just adding a user. Im doing that now as I type.

 

I guess if you want to add to lindows they have a whole devel kit and you could customise it to make it suitable for a professional office etc. but for SOHO it does what you need.

 

As a stepping stone Gnubie Im not sure. It just works and 90% of people will probably never make the next step. When I look at what advanced stuff I do in Mandrake its 50% becuase Mandrake can't do it anyway whereas Lindows can stragiht out of the box. Ultimately Mandrake will do more.

 

Its like for no work understanding Lindows beats Mdk handsdown for non geek home users.

I just want 9.2 and nforce to work and MDK means compiling my own kernel.

However customising Lindows heavily is more work than Mandrake. Once you start tweaking Lindows is a lot more work. It can be done but it stops beingLindows pretty much quicker than Mandy stops being Mandy.

However Mandy is still midrange on this aspect. LFS or slack etc. are more customisable again but you need to know more to even install them.

 

Its all a question of learning curves!!! Why yuo want to use Linux (or perhaps why you don't wanna use windows even)

So its individual. My mum could use lindows and be productive, i doubt she could use Mandrake.

When she got to recompiling a kernel she'd switch off the PC and just go and read a book or something instead!!!

[phunni]

My only real problem with Lindows is the whole running as root by default thing...

[Gowator]

phunni: its as simple as control panel add user. Then it will prompt you next time you go into X via kdm.

After that you are prompted for the root password when needed.

 

 

But the idfference is when I added a user it added it to k3b for me.

K3B just works.... its preconfigured wheras in mandrake it involves lots of messing about and conflicts with xcdroast etc.

 

Its not for everyone and probasbly not for you unless they bring out some prof mixing stuff. Then it might be :D

[ac_dispatcher]

Remember like a said at the top. Alot of use (including me) set no root password in MDK. this is not as bad as being root at login but still very insecure.

 

As for Lindows, I now think that it would be a great Distro for one mom or grandparents who want to get away from Window$.

 

Never really thought to compare the price of Lindows to Mandrake in total. Take Mandrake silver club membership with 2 Distro charges each year and compare to Lindows with the download package.

 

Granted MDK is free to download. You can also get just about all progs via urpmi. What I've learned about Linux to me is - giving back -. For me is paying for a distro here and there(Im due at MDK10). Maybe a membership in the club or some web space (bandwith).

 

I would love to get my wife on Linux (Lindows). She works from the house. Problem is her computer hardware only has windows98 drivers. and they(Stedmans) don't make a medical spell checker for Linux yet. If they did, I think I would get Lindows for her. Complete easy of use with little changes out of the box. Plus the look and feel is alot like Window$.

[Darkelve]

I don't think its fair to say Lindows is expensive.  I got Lifetime membership for $100!!!!

Hey, Gowator, me too!

 

I want to support free (as in speech) software where I can. Plus this was a perfect excuse for me to actually be able to try out Lindows. Maybe it's not so bad ;) I am getting so tired of having to install almost everything manually: programs, games, etc. yeah the top programs (e.g. openoffice) have decent installers, but otherwise its ./configure, make and fingers crossed...

 

Plus if I really cannot use it I can always give it to s.o. else (also thinking about my mom, maybe I can find a cheap computer for her to install it on).

 

 

Darkelve

Edited December 14, 2003 by Darkelve

[phunni]

phunni: its as simple as control panel add user.  Then it will prompt you next time you go into X via kdm. 

After that you are prompted for the root password when needed. 

Let's not foget that this is a newbie's distro though - if I was new to Linux and familiar with windows - I wouldn't add the extra user, I'd do it all as root.

 

In fact - the first few months of using Linux - I DID do everything as root - and thant was in mandrake where I was encouraged not to do that!

[Gowator]

Phunni,

Yeah your right but even if you do everything as root its still only like ruinning windows. The difference is you have an option to run as a user and your processes run as users (like apache) therefore providing at least some protection.

 

Anyway, as I said its a vote for free choice not free (beer).

 

I still think Mandrake is a far better distro to learn about linux but for your gran/mom perhaps Lindows is better.

 

I think its important that they actually have a proper financial model.

Like the $100 for life thing really works! It works becuase it allows me to receive as well as give. I get something tenable (the distro) which costs them nothing but gives me something positive. Its a good model becuase it apeals to my avarice while allowing me to actually 'donate' the $100.

 

This is directly opposite to buying mandrake. You get nothing in return (although I see 9.2 brings back 2 months club membership which is a good start) and if you buy the Discovery you only get the 2 cd's not 3 which you can download.

 

I honestly wouldn't have minded paying for the DVD edition of the powerpack but I wasn't willing to play the Mandrake buy direct lottery and couldn't find the DVD edition in the stores.

 

You have to buy lots of distro's like Suse or Xandros but I don't see the same levels of criticism from people who haven't tried them as I do for Lindows.

[Darkelve]

Tried Lindows OS yesterday. Looked very slick. Very nice icons, window decoration is a bit over the top in my opinion. Nicely organized too with good standard applications. Your mom&pop could definitely use this. It did not automatically mount my windows drives, but I was able to add them by 'create new disk' from the KDE menu.

 

I was relieved to when I finally found the program "konsole" included. It's pretty much hidden, but it is there.

 

Also found a wireless USB ethernet card very similar to the Intel one I use now on www.lfriendly.com: http://lindows.pricegrabber.com/search_get...masterid=405980

 

I'm still wondering if it'll really work. Setting it up won't be too much of a problem, KwifiManager seems very capable of that, but it's about the drivers I have doubts... anyway if it's not it shouldn't be on the website I guess.

 

 

2 things I did not like:

 

1. The Fonts Lindows uses in OpenOffice (1.0.3) are butt-ugly.

 

2. I have no sound. I think it did not detect my soundcard (yes, I did put the volume up), so that was a big turn-off. Mandrake did recognize it. Unfortunately, I temporarily deleted Mandrake to make room for Lindows (I also thought eventual triple-booting would go better when installing the Mandrake system last). Knoppix, which is based on Debian, recognized it as well.

 

I think it was an nvia (Nvidia?) soundcard, or an nforce-audio??

 

How would you recommend to solve this?

 

 

Darkelve

[phunni]

download and install the drivers from the Nivdia website - it's usually pretty straightforward

 

nforce-audio is probably what you are looking for...

Edited December 16, 2003 by phunni

[Darkelve]

Phunni, thanks for the advice. I found them and I am pretty sure that is what is screwing up my experience with Lindows so far. In particular my sound and usb (hangs whenever I plug something in, just like in Mandrake 9.0/9.1), but maybe also the ethernet part (I suppose that is what that driver "nvnet" is for).

 

That and the absence of make and configure in Lindows.!!

 

I know it's meant for total N00bs, but still! Lots of software/configuration tools depend on it.

 

So I got no way to install this!

 

Plus I still got no internet connection, so I'm running a really substandard system now.

 

Darkelve

P.S.

My short opinion so far: Lindows is interesting, as long as you

- do not try to dig too deep in it (although I did manage to set up Crossover Office albeit with some trouble when Lindows tries to automaunt the CDrom)

- use it in the way it is intended to be used, limited to a selection of core tasks (watching a video, browsing the web, playing games, ...).

 

Of course, 1 of its strengths, Click&Run, I haven't been able to test it out yet and my hardware problems are bugging me, so maybe I'm just a little too harsh on the distro right now.