Darkelve Posted December 4, 2003 Report Share Posted December 4, 2003 http://www.newsforge.com/os/03/12/03/15562...2&tid=82&tid=94 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VeeDubb Posted December 4, 2003 Report Share Posted December 4, 2003 This is realy good news in my opinion. THis is something that has been missing from linux for a long time. I know that this was one of the things that kept me in Windows for a long time untill I realy learned a lot more about hardware. For anybody that wants the cliff-notes version of the article, they are working on a universal linux hardware database that all distros can share like the lsb, and with it a universal hardware detection program that will hopefully become the "standard" IMNSHO, 'standards' are just what linux needs more of. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ramfree17 Posted December 5, 2003 Report Share Posted December 5, 2003 one thing that is good in that article is that progeny is admitting that they have a corporate vested interest on why they are doing this. the side-effect that the linux-community will benefit from it provides an assurance that this wont be a half-baked project (unless progeny goes under). or am i -ier than normal? :) ciao! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DragonMage Posted December 5, 2003 Report Share Posted December 5, 2003 Anything to make the inside (not the outside look mind you, or the custom tools) of linux distro interchangable is ok in my book. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dalee Posted December 6, 2003 Report Share Posted December 6, 2003 I think this would be great idea. For those of us who are home users and don't really want to be sysadmins. It's always bothered me that hardware detection can be so hit and miss sometimes. dalee Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gnubie Posted December 6, 2003 Report Share Posted December 6, 2003 Well, let me just say that it's a good thing we have Progeny now that Red Hat seems to have turned evil. B) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darkelve Posted December 6, 2003 Author Report Share Posted December 6, 2003 Well, let me just say that it's a good thing we have Progeny now that Red Hat seems to have turned evil. B) I'm no Red hat fan, but Red Hat has not 'turned evil'. They just picked their path, parted crossroads. Whether we like it our not, ultimately it is their decision and it is a clearly understandable (although probably not very popular) move from a business perspective. Give companies some credit. It's not like they never gave anything back! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DOlson Posted December 7, 2003 Report Share Posted December 7, 2003 It's pretty neat that Progeny now has Sarge ISOs with Anaconda for download. I may have to give it a shot sometime, just to see if it works properly on my server... That's what stopped me from ever using Red Hat - Anaconda always locked up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sarah31 Posted December 8, 2003 Report Share Posted December 8, 2003 argh! damn progeny. all it sounds like is they want to make a windows like installer and system. taking the thought out of module loading (automating it) and automating hardware detection is stupid. the less people know about their system the more they depend on other people and the more likely they are to waste too much money on useless techs. does linux/*nix need standards? yes but not standard installer and standard hardware detection. i don't want a fancy installer or the installer to detect my graphics card, sound card, and so forth. i don't want some dumbass installer to turn on a bunch of service as a default (ideally NO services should be turned on unless a user/sysadmin says so). lsb.....they can get stuffed. the lsb has no ear for suggestions from smaller distros they just want to make the rules their way and as a result try and marginalize other distros who simply think what the big six do is ridiculous (ie starting turning services on as a default). there was a time when i would have liked what progeny is trying but now i think there are enough idiot systems out there and not enough idiot proof ones. thankfully the *nixes still make its users think for themselves. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DOlson Posted December 8, 2003 Report Share Posted December 8, 2003 DAMNED HARDWARE DETECTION AND GENERAL USER-FRIENDLINESS!!! ALL THOSE WHO WANT TO SPEND TIME USING THEIR SYSTEMS INSTEAD OF MAINTAINING AND FIGURING OUT HOW TO PROBE A MODULE WILL BURN! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sarah31 Posted December 8, 2003 Report Share Posted December 8, 2003 why does linux have to be user friendly DOlson? i am no fricken linux whiz nor have ever been but i know when it is more beneficial to do something my self instead of the computer holding my hand. you mistake hardware detection and gui this and that as user friendly. what most people are promoting is laziness and lax system security. if you have the sytem do everything for you in linux you are completely screwed if you pretty little detection system gets screwed up. what will you do when your x breaks? it is not fricken ahard to be aware of what your system contains and it takes about the same time to set up your system if you know what you have as it does to have some stupid system detect your crud via some slow interface. really take your head out of your butt. user friendly only comes with user experience and good documantation not some stupid ass tool Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dalee Posted December 8, 2003 Report Share Posted December 8, 2003 Hi, I don't think that Progenys' proposal is going to preclude you from opening your config files in Vi and hand editing them if you so choose. That's something that should never go away. But, there are those of us, like me, who do prefer to use our distro, rather than have to spend a lot of time doing admin work. Lazy admin'ing can happen with any distro or OS. And that dosn't require any auto-majic hardware detection. The thing I really want is better hardware support period. I would like to use any hardware any time. It's coming along I know, but I get impaticent. dalee Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DOlson Posted December 9, 2003 Report Share Posted December 9, 2003 why does linux have to be user friendly DOlson? i am no fricken linux whiz nor have ever been but i know when it is more beneficial to do something my self instead of the computer holding my hand. you mistake hardware detection and gui this and that as user friendly. what most people are promoting is laziness and lax system security. if you have the sytem do everything for you in linux you are completely screwed if you pretty little detection system gets screwed up. what will you do when your x breaks? it is not fricken ahard to be aware of what your system contains and it takes about the same time to set up your system if you know what you have as it does to have some stupid system detect your crud via some slow interface. really take your head out of your butt. user friendly only comes with user experience and good documantation not some stupid ass tool Yeah, you're absolutely right. Shit, I'm not even gonna use a GUI for anything anymore. Not even to browse the web! Hell, I'm not even gonna use a pre-made OS, I'll make my own! But shit, why stop there? I'm gonna actually reinvent the computer from scratch because maybe there is a backdoor in my hardware! And who should be allowed to use a computer who didn't invent it anyhow? No one. So everyone, destroy your computers, and build your own from scratch! And don't even use pre-built capacitors or resistors or transistors to do it either because you don't understand how they were made! You gotta make them from scratch. Do it, or else you are a user and a poser using lame-o tools built by others! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paul Posted December 9, 2003 Report Share Posted December 9, 2003 sarah31: aren't Apple Mac users the laziest people ever to walk the earth ? the ones I know ... if its more than "drag-n-drop" then its too hard ... infact you say "right click ... " and they don't understand. and yet apple produces one of the more secure OSes you're argument cerntainly stacks up against Microsoft products, but not *nix based ones ... each distro should be taken by it own merits shouldn't it? they all have thier pros and cons. sounds to me like you should be sticking with BSD rather than linuxes, because this is the nature of the linux desktop ... bring the desktop to the people. if your car breaks down do you take it to a workshop? do you know what a "king pin" is ? if a mechanic says you've broken a king pin ? we can't expect to upskill the world to meet our needs, we need to downskill the distro to meet thiers ... hence all the flame wars gentoo vs debian, mandrake vs redhat etc etc etc ... which distro is the most l33t ? is that our goal? .. .can I suggest LFS ? or is our goal a simple marketing one ..... "There is an alternative .... " thats all from me .. except one more "mod" duty ... dolson and sarah31 please don't get "personal" is this debate. Thanks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gnubie Posted December 9, 2003 Report Share Posted December 9, 2003 why does linux have to be user friendly DOlson? i am no fricken linux whiz nor have ever been but i know when it is more beneficial to do something my self instead of the computer holding my hand. you mistake hardware detection and gui this and that as user friendly. what most people are promoting is laziness and lax system security. if you have the sytem do everything for you in linux you are completely screwed if you pretty little detection system gets screwed up. what will you do when your x breaks? it is not fricken ahard to be aware of what your system contains and it takes about the same time to set up your system if you know what you have as it does to have some stupid system detect your crud via some slow interface. really take your head out of your butt. user friendly only comes with user experience and good documantation not some stupid ass tool Yeah, you're absolutely right. Shit, I'm not even gonna use a GUI for anything anymore. Not even to browse the web! Hell, I'm not even gonna use a pre-made OS, I'll make my own! But shit, why stop there? I'm gonna actually reinvent the computer from scratch because maybe there is a backdoor in my hardware! And who should be allowed to use a computer who didn't invent it anyhow? No one. So everyone, destroy your computers, and build your own from scratch! And don't even use pre-built capacitors or resistors or transistors to do it either because you don't understand how they were made! You gotta make them from scratch. Do it, or else you are a user and a poser using lame-o tools built by others! And don't think of using a prebuilt screwdriver or other tools either. You have to build your own. :lol: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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