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aRTee

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Everything posted by aRTee

  1. What's up with this long discussion on polls guys? ;) BTW can anyone change the title to read Mandrake instead of Makdrake. I first was looking for the answer "I don't use Makdrake"... I would my vote to count for two, since I installed mdk9.1 on 2 machines and they both worked flawlessly (apart from all stuff that you know you're going to have to fix after installation, like dvd-playback and the like)... To me, mdk9.1 is the best mdk ever. Possibly the best linux that I ever installed.
  2. I'm doing an install page on my site (really had to go to bed yesterday, so couldn't finish), and also a configuration page, that can give insight about things that might be necessary to do after an install. Basically, installed on 2 machines, my own ran perfectly, 1600x1200 res @ 85 Hz with gf4ti4200 with nv driver, nice if you don't have 21 inches of screen flickering into your face @ 60Hz while you build the nvidia driver... Only had to add some proprietary stuff (not finished yet, java, flash etc still to be added), nvidia and webcam ... Any hints on how to easily add java, flash, real (for web), with urpmi or so? On a second machine, during the install I had to run through the graphics setup, but managed (gf2mx, picked generic gf2), then installed nvidia driver, no problem. Setup the network so I can print to the laser printer connected to the other machine, and the other machine can print to my colour inkjet. Little fiddling (had to add address + hostname of other machine to /etc/hosts, something I don't think is easy for newbies..) and with the cups www printing stuff everything was good to go. This install was the easiest, leaving the least to me to configure. Most that I configured myself would be too difficult for some people, but then they would not have a properly functioning computer no matter what OS they install. As far as I can tell, for a 1 hour install, this was one of the most rewarding OSes I ever put on. (Comparing with older Mandrakes, RH8, Easylinux, Corellinux, various windows flavours...) My girlfriend was really happy with her new machine, liked the way things look. And I forgot to mention I put a new password for her, it's quite funny what happens with mdkkdm (I first thought the screen was degaussing).... BTW if anyone manages to get fanspeed readings with lm_sensors on A7V333 please let me know! I get temps ok, just no fanspeed. That must be the only thing that I don't have under linux that I can have under win (if I actually boot to win, which I haven't done since, hmmm sometime late last year..?).
  3. On my sblive, aumix didn't show the digital/analog rear control that you need to mute to have analog sound on the rear speakers. alsamixer and kmix both allowed me to do that, but with text on the controls, kmix is 10x the size of my screen... at 1600x1200 100dpi this is a bit large really. Alsamixer fits since it has a scrollbar. Neither is newbie friendly, especially since the volumes are muted by default upon first boot into the brand new shining Mdk9.1 Oh yeah, I'm an engineer, but still had to surf the web to find out that digital/analog thingy has to be muted for any sound to come out of my rear speakers. And there are 10 zillion controls. Talk about something that really isn't done properly, here I've found it, this must be the worst thing (discounting stuff like when hardware isn't properly recognised/installed/initialised), it would be really easy to make the user interface better... BTW with alsa I now get bass and treble controls on my sblive5.1, before with mdk9.0 I quickly went back to using OSS (as per DOlsons tutorial) to have all I needed. Now I have all I need with alsa, plus I got an extra degree in engineering (fictive and from myself, as congratulations) just for figuring out things.
  4. I'm not at my linux box, but drakdm should do the trick.
  5. Here we go: [robert@zurich robert]$ cat /proc/mounts | grep root rootfs / rootfs rw 0 0 /dev/root / ext3 rw 0 0 [robert@zurich robert]$ df -T Filesystem Type Size Used Avail Use% Mounted on /dev/hda6 ext3 7.6G 2.9G 4.3G 40% / /dev/hda9 ext3 6.0G 4.5G 1.2G 80% /alt /dev/hda10 ext3 2.1G 461M 1.5G 24% /download /dev/hda8 ext3 22G 21G 1.1G 95% /home /dev/hda1 vfat 3.8G 3.6G 302M 93% /mnt/win_c /dev/hda5 vfat 1.9G 1.8G 191M 91% /mnt/win_d /dev/hda11 vfat 12G 8.7G 2.8G 77% /mnt/win_e [robert@zurich robert]$ cat /proc/mounts rootfs / rootfs rw 0 0 /dev/root / ext3 rw 0 0 none /dev devfs rw 0 0 none /proc proc rw 0 0 none /proc/bus/usb usbdevfs rw 0 0 /dev/hda9 /alt ext3 rw 0 0 none /dev/pts devpts rw 0 0 /dev/hda10 /download ext3 rw 0 0 /dev/hda8 /home ext3 rw 0 0 none /mnt/floppy supermount rw,sync 0 0 /dev/hda1 /mnt/win_c vfat rw 0 0 /dev/hda5 /mnt/win_d vfat rw 0 0 /dev/hda11 /mnt/win_e vfat rw 0 0 /dev/loop0 /mnt/cdrom iso9660 ro 0 0 So I think you have a problem with your root partition..?? BTW I just managed to fix my mouse, so the extra thumb buttons do forward and backward in browsers etc. Still not sure on how to fix this keyboard issue.. loadkeys -d doesn`t even work...
  6. I`m going to put a configuration page on my site, just so next time I`ll know what to do.... Anyway, install went fine, sort of skipped my mouse setting/selection (mx700) but worked fine throughout the install (no scrolling after though). First boot: lilo offers: linux-enterpris linux inux-nonfb failsafe windows floppy What is with this enterprise version? Which one is better suited for what?? BTW I`m using that one now anyway. I don`t consider myself a trekkie, but it does sound ok :wink: Next, I try to type the normal ' (apostrophe) but can't (it`s below ¨ which does work..), it won't come out. I had to copy the ones in that last sentence from somewhere.... For now I work around it like that, or use the ` one left of the 1 key on most keyboards... The font on evolution and bluefish looks very bad, don`t know what to do about that; the rest looks ok, somehow opera has slightly smaller fonts, but still ok. ndeb, don`t know what your problem with / is in terms of ext3 or 2, mine gets mounted as ext3 fine; just when it is mounted as read-only it is mounted as ext2, which is perfectly alright imho.... Installing nvidia drivers was easy, noticed that even before that the display setting was quite acceptable, didn`t have the fbdev but nv driver, which worked fine at 1600x1200@75Hz (fbdev wouldn`t give me that res and only do 60Hz; that was in rc1). I installed the necessary things for dvd playback, on rc1 I had trouble since I was trying to use the d5d plugin for xine, but now I just did urpmi libdvdcss2 and all was well, both in mplayer and xine.. I only have some problems with audio surround playback; kmix is gigantic, and I have no way to get audio from the rear channels. Also in aumix or alsamixergui I have no clue what to do to get sound out of the rear channels.... bummer .... Maybe I should go back to OSS? Or can anyone tell me how to do it with ALSA and sblive51..? urpmi is great, installed/configged stuff according to http://plf.zarb.org/~nanardon/ and it rocks; just added SDLcam (so I can take pics with my webcam etc), octave (using matlab a lot at work since one week, some more practise won`t hurt..), k3b works fine, etcetcetc, so for the rest, quite smooth sailing, so tonight my girlfriends pc will get some new bits to process. I don`t mind having renewed my subscription!
  7. Choice is never the problem, as long as you enlighten people about how to deal with it. Some comments on a piece of paper will do for that. My girlfriend never had problems, I just told her: click here or there, it will start this or that problem. Nothing you can't put on a sheet of paper. Mandrake has this great menu: "what to do", it solves almost all these problems of Too Much Choice, that other distros solve by taking away choice (hated RH8 for that, trashed that partition for mdk9.1rc1). Same for the root password, just tell them to write it down, when to use it, etcetc. I mean, everybody has passwords to go on the net, for email etcetc. But you're right, it has to be sold as a security feature, instead of annoying extra work for the user. "- no virus scanner needed, intrinsic security (security from within, howabout that one for a slogan) -- because linux uses the root account approach!" But I'm still not sure on how the install would be easiest..
  8. Michel, please stay on the subject. I`m not talking about userfriendlyness, more or less than some other system. I`m talking about fast carefree installation that offers all necessary stuff. And besides that, what one may or may not expect an average user to do to get going on his new system, and what he needs to know to do that.. I am interested in your and everybody elses opinion and experience, but just about those matters, not about how nice mdk (9.1) is, or how userfriendly you can make it by setting up correct mime types, or whatever.
  9. I started with the basic thought that I could get them to have the hardware fixed, meaning they will not change the size of the hd without me knowing. The customer gets to choose the cpu speed grade and the quantity of RAM and that´s all. Per configuration of course. Or I could set things up so it gets detected. And the whole idea of autoinstaller doesn´t solve the problem of nvidia or other proprietary drivers, dvd playback, flash/real, java etc. Which needs to be solved or the customer won´t be satisfied. So back to my question: how could I manage the install to have a completely functional machine with the least effort, and what do you guys think a non-specialist user (who may not know linux, he may just like the system on display at the shop) needs to get started. Or is linux really too difficult for the average computer user?
  10. I came home last night finding that halfway through the second cd the download had broken off, and the server was not allowing any connections... Went to the mdkclub serverlist and wget -c on the second cd, which finished around 9pm, the 3rd is still underway (checked this morning before leaving for work), may take between 5 and 9 hours; unless it gets loaded even more.. The bad thing: yesterday evening I would have had plenty of time, but now it looks like I may have to wait until sometime next week... Unless I manage to do things tonight of course. Keeping my fingers crossed...
  11. OOPS hey i assumed it was installed as i selected developement option in the package selection, i didn't think to check. Ok compiles fine then. Damn! I posted a bug about that, .... so that still means that if you select to install the development part the kernel sources don't get installed?? This is not good.. I think we'll be telling people all the time to urmpi kernel-source.... ah well...
  12. Michel, thanks for your input and personal experience. 2 things: first:if you just want to add something, please use the edit button at the top right of your own post. Second, please reread what my questions where and comment on the issues that I brought forward: how to get a fully usable install with minimum effort, and what can one expect the customer to do before being able to use his new system. BTW What I forgot to mention also is that java, real etc should work on at least mozilla, if possible also opera and other webbrowsers; dvd playback and 3d graphics accelleration should function out of the box. So how to install all that in one go?
  13. Ok, there seems to be some confusion about what I intend/am thinking about. The resellers currently offer systems with no OS, and winXP plus some software for the price of XPhome and extra software plus about 35$ (50swiss francs) for the installation. Which easily turns a 300US$ pc into a 450+US$ pc.... If I ask them to sell systems with Mandrake (or any linux), just by giving them 3 cd´s they are going to say: - nice, 3 cd´s, why should I even waste time looking at them... So I was thinking: - if I can get them to commit to a standard configuration (no sudden, unforseen changes in terms of hardware, for instance using a different ethernet card because the other ones went out of stock, or whatever), so people only get to choose speed of the cpu, quantity of memory, - and can setup a box at their backoffice as a server that can help their employees to install mandrake on any no-OS-system WITHOUT THEM HAVING TO DO MORE THAN CONNECT THE PC AND CLICK ONCE, they might just like the idea of making some 35$ extra, I mean, for 1 minute of setup time (hook up the ethernet card to the server), popping in a floppy or cd and booting. (BTW Yes I´ll definitely offer to collect part of that 35$) If their employees (who are just salesmen really) have to do anything ¨complex¨ like type in something, or click through menus or so, they will never go for it... No you´re not getting what I meant; .... I said: By which I meant: if the hardware of the client pc (the one being sold) is the same each time, I wouldn´t have to make it go through any install, I´d just have to clone the data from one such client pc (data which has since been copied to the server machine) that has been properly installed and set-up. So: server pc with all data (not its own linux system, but exact copy from previous succesful install on client-type pc), client pc with empty harddisk booted with floppy or cd, without any hardware (mouse, keyboard, monitor), connected to the server pc. Boot the client, the bootflop or cd tells it to get a network address via dhcp and execute some code that does the following: -create hd partitions, format those -copy data over from server pc, thereby obtaining the exact data as it was on the first client install, i.e. completely installed and configured -writing the mbr of the client -beep to tell it´s done. Also, some popup on the server would be nice.. A classical install would require people clicking buttons, swapping cds etc. Even with the floppy for exact same install (same options), it would require swapping cds, basically monitoring the system. The floppy with info for ´same install´ combined with network install would be quite good. But then you still don´t have the nvidia drivers for instance.... Also, the regular install would take about 20-30 minutes, whereas copying the hd info would be 3.5GB (my average mdk install, and I install loads of things), this can be written over the network at 10MB/s ==> 350 sec = 6 min. But maybe I´m missing something, and that´s why I posted things here. Network install with NFS mounted stuff and bootfloppy that contains all selections may be much easier... The other matter: how to deal with the customer side of things... What do they need? They get the pc with Mdk installed, all drivers (incl Nvidia, if applicable, and any other stuff that´s not in Mdk that is needed, ie. drivers for nic/audio or whatnot), everything configured. Except their mouse (maybe keyboard, but there an educated guess would be to assume they have a DE_CH layout/swissgerman) and their monitor. So, should the pc use a 60Hz XGA (1024x768) setup in the xf86config? Or should they have the first cd (others on hd as iso´s that are automatically mounted and known as resource to the system I think would/might be easiest) and an instruction leaflet (and of course the license explicitly telling them they can install and pass around etc) telling them to hook things up and run through the install process without installing anything, but just selecting: mouse, keyboard, root passwd, make at least one user account + passwd, and setup their monitor By the way, it would be more problematic to sell them 3cds, who would make those? The employees at the shop? Me? Just one cd as rescue disc is necessary, but the rest they could do from hd, and if they have the iso´s it wouldn´t be a problem for them to burn those and pass around etcetcetc. More ideas: have the shop sell Mdk9.1 download edition, 3 cds for 7$ (10CHF) and offer to either take back the cd´s (or give equivalent rebate) if they buy a Mdk Pack or send them the Mdk9.2 (or 10 ;) ) download edition as soon as it´s out if they join the club. People who bought a preinstalled pc of course also get a rebate on the Mdk Pack, or the next dl edition if they become a member. Like I said, the tough thing is to install linux (or, to figure out what hardware will function well) and configure it. Once you´re past that point (which is where you are if you buy preinstalled/preconfigured), you can likely get around...
  14. I'm thinking of talking to some pc vendors here who sell hardware, even laptops, without any OS installed. They normally offer to install MSWin, but I could try to make a deal to have them sell systems with Mdk9.1. After all, the biggest problem with linux (apart from not having the exact same software/games) is how to install and configure the hardware properly. One problem that arises is this: the buyer would get his box, no keyboard, no mouse, no display. So how does he go round to configure everything for his hardware: mouse, keyboard, display? Also, how to get him to make a user account plus password, how to handle the root password etc. Maybe he should get the first cd (others could be iso's on the harddrive), and instructions on putting it in, selecting upgrade, not adding any packages, just selecting the right mouse, keyboard and screen resolution/etc, set a root password and create at least one user+passwd...? The other problem that arises is: how to install mandrake automatically (over a network) with the least effort? I imagine it should be possible to setup a server and just pop in a cd or floppy in the empty/clean machine, connect it with a network cable to the server, and boot. The floppy or cd should then have all that is necessary to make the client connect to the server and install all preselected (by me, not standard) packages. It should include for instance the nvidia drivers if applicable. Does anyone have any experience with this type of install? BTW the idea is to have nothing connected to the client pc while this goes on, no display, keyboard or mous, no hassle... I might be able to get them to put the exact same hardware into each box, in that case, would it be better to just directly copy the data to the hd (no installation, just partitioning, formatting and copying data over)? Any comments, ideas?
  15. aRTee

    Advice on Games

    Thanks for the suggestions; Tuxracer also crossed my mind... ;) RRT may be along the lines I was thinking (the niece and nephew are playing ZooTycoon a lot); I will check some more on NWN. The company behind Creatures 3 seems to be bankrupt,... too bad. I'll see if I can find a review with some info about the game. ATitD is not so suitable, as you have to play online (no single player/offline gameplay), and if it's really addictive, it could get quite expensive... Also, I'll be looking into the games on DOlsons page, thanks for reminding me it's there... ;) Any more comments or suggestions are welcome.
  16. I just went for mirrors that are not on the 9.1 list, but on the 9.0 list; they had the rc3 versions, but the md5sums are the same, so nothing different there. (As we all know...) Got ~30kB/s which is my max speed. (I know that server, in the Netherlands can do nice speeds, a friend once downloaded all 3 isos of mdk9.0 in about five minutes.... If I'd have thought about it, I'd have arranged for him to set up an ftp server, I think he has at least 10Mbit/s upload speed..)
  17. I will share as soon as they are completely downloaded (saw the first iso was ok this morning, md5 ok and all, didn't start ed2k yet so as not to slow down the second and 3rd disc too much in downloading). I will move all files I normally have under edonkey away, so there will be only mdk9.1 isos. Just 8kb/s upload connection, but if enough people share, you can get nice download speeds anyway. Can anyone run 'bitcollider' on the md5 checked files and post the correct ed2k download link / md4 checksum? {edit} Just saw on pclinuxonline that the correct links should be: ed2k://|file|Mandrake91-cd1-inst.i586.iso|682164224|7422d9374a1bd9187254de638f47c7d3| ed2k://|file|Mandrake91- cd2-ext.i586.iso|681279488|bc5687f06ecf26e1f767623dc8f6421| ed2k://|file|Mandrake91-cd3-i18n.i586.iso|681574400|82530029d63b3624020fcc40aa9ad625| (see http://www.pclinuxonline.com/modules.php?n...&thold=-1#27735 in case I made an error in copying this..) {edit} That way, you can be sure to download the correct file, whether the name is ok or not (as it seems many are downloading the rc3 files, which are the same except for the name; they also have the same checksum of course). Also, you won't have to check the md5sum after downloading...
  18. For all those who managed to download mdk9.1 (and who missed requests to share), if you have a fixed connection and enough bandwidth, please share the iso's via peer-to-peer networks such as Edonkey. The more people share it, the faster it gets spread out. Never paid for Mdk? This could be your way to contribute. Like Mdk? Same thing. See also the thread here: http://www.mandrakeusers.org/viewtopic.php?t=3855
  19. Did you set up the bios the way as is recommended? As in: (for instance) no shadow video bios, pnp os: no, etcetc...
  20. ndeb, this is bad.... I hope you can get around it by skipping the manual per package selection. I'll be installing tonight as I just started downloading last evening. And I sincerely hope the installation problems only occur for few people. Let's hope you can fix your problems and that install and usage problems only happen to some unlucky few... Mandrake does not need any such bad stuff for many people, they may not survive it..
  21. I think the topicstarter means a completely built system (fully assembled) without any OS (basically, without Windows) so as to avoid the so-called MS-tax. I fully agree with this line of thought. You have to check out local retailers; if you would be in Switzerland I could give you some links... Basically, check for vendors of parts that also sell completely built systems in your neighbourhood. In case of doubt of linux support for some parts, check the web; if you still can't find info/reassurance, ask on the hardware subforum here. BTW I recently saw that you can buy laptops here without any system (mswin) installed! Things are going the right way! (For desktops I build my own anyway..)
  22. aRTee

    Advice on Games

    I’m not really a gamer, but I’d like to get some games. What I would be looking for is a game that: - has a native linux client (duh!) - is not violent, if possible. (If you advice me some more or less violent games, that’s ok, but just mention the level of violence) Or maybe: not realistic violence (egaboo like is funny therefor no prob) - looks really good, nice scenery/landscapes - runs ok on a PIII700MHz with a gf2mx (not necessarily on anything much slower) - maybe strategic or adventure or RPG. - network (lan + internet) gameplay possible, but not required for nice gameplay (should be nice to play in single player mode) - if possible also suitable for ~13 year olds, or at least please mention the age category it’s aimed at/played by. Basically I want to vote with my wallet for some linux games. And it’s my birthday, so actually I may get other people to vote with their wallets..... ;) As a reference: I like starcraft, but my girlfriend finds it a bit violent (hated the zerg in the first round, then started to like them in the second, then felt sorry for the poor zerg in the Protoss round... so yes she did play all the way through)... We like frozen-bubble. And tuxracer. I like the looks of black and white, never really played, don’t like the idea behind it though.. and heard too many bad comments about the single player version. I just checked egaboo, looks promising, but needs more work. Good part: it’s gpl. Checked out Cube (also free, not sure if it’s gpl), too violent (for my girlfriend and her nephew and niece, whom I also have in mind for linux games). Please mention any game that pops up in your head and post here, even if it doesn’t match 100% with the description/requirements I gave. Please do mention the website where it can be purchased if you know it.
  23. Stability is a very vague term; but consensus seems to be it has to do with great uptime when talking about servers. For me, stability means the system doesn’t crash. I recently upgraded and had quite a few crashes due to system/hardware instability (overclocking trying to find the sweet spot; I’m back to the stock speed, was just wasting more time by trying to find that sweet spot vs gaining anything with a slightly faster system).... 99.99% uptime means nothing, as someone calculated that still means more than 50 minutes of downtime per year, and as a fast pc boots in a minute (or less, if you trim down the system well), that means 50 reboots, which means down about once a week. Think that 99.99% uptime spec may come from some wellknown software giant...... I like to think of a stable system as one that NEVER has to be rebooted unless you specifically instruct it to (for kernel updates or hardware changes or so), even when completely loaded. So never any unplanned downtime. Oh and then it starts counting how often you actually have to have planned downtime due to security patches... BTW: I hate to break it to you, DOlson, but your uptime proves nothing, since there wasn’t a high load ;) If I turn on my old win98 pc (that is sitting unused in a corner, any takers for an old p1 166MMX??) I’m quite sure it will stay up until the power fails, the hardware breaks or I turn it off... as long as I don’t do anything with it. Ok, exagerated example, but it’s about staying up through high loads for a longer time that shows how much a system can take. The real point is not about stability or anything technical, the point is having webpages up on the web that can be reached under all (well, excluding network problems, which includes DDoS attacks etc) circumstances. That this needs a server(s) (plus http server) to be up and running all the time is just part of the solution. I motivated my girlfriend to go to linux, she has her complaints about it often enough (esp. OOo, which is what she uses most; she was already using Netscape for mail etc, so with mozilla that was no real change); but last week I asked her: so you have problems with Office, ... one question: has linux ever crashed? She really had to think hard, but had to admit it hasn’t. Ever. Contrary to that other ‘solution’ that she was previously using. BTW She’s been using Mdk since 9.0 came out and I put it on her machine (sept 02). And since I told her I would not waste any time anymore on figuring out how to do/improve stuff on that other platform that she can also boot to. Serious arm twisting, I admit, but then I’m quite against illegal software, but also against paying for something riddled with bugs, and there you have the problem.... OOwriter has, though... So with the new mdk9.1 (new OOo) I hope things will be better for her, I’m sure the OOo team managed to squash quite a few bugs in the past 6 months. BTW I’ve had my fair share of crashes (also not related to overclocking and hardware), mostly because of playing with X; btw most crashes were a completely blocked X, which by the end user is usually perceived as a system crash (no possibility to switch with ctrl-alt-F[1-6] ) but I could on all counts actually remote logon with ssh, kill X and then some, and have the system restart. (NVidia drivers not so stable? X ? who knows..) So actually, apart from hardware instability, actually, I have never had a Mdk crash that I know of... Keeping my fingers crossed... :)
  24. aRTee

    Friendly Printer

    Ixthusdan, must have been me in that other thread saying Canon was maybe not the way to go. Hearsay, I admit, but check the other comments here, canon printers don't perform under linux as under win in some cases. My epson 740 performs the same, and with mtink I have the same usability as under win. As far as I can remember,... don't think I booted win since sometime last year.... Bvc, basically you must read some reviews, Epson people are being honest, they don't have (affordable) printers that are great both on photos and text. (glossy and std paper) Nor does any other brand as I can tell, and I was looking at that stuff quite a bit (thinking of getting a digicam and good printer, but it's too expensive and not yet good enough to replace analogue photography..) The last review I read about the various inkjets had Canon and Epson finish at the top, followed by HP I think; count on spending ~200USD or more for a good machine. Check for the linux support on the Canon, "it prints" doesn't cut it, it should have the same (or more) functionality as under win. (note that sometimes/with some printers you can print under linux, but not at the highest resolution and not with the nice fine tuning that you want if you're printing photos and the like..)
  25. aRTee

    9.1 Final

    Counterspy wrote: How many businesses can you name that let you copy all of their stuff for free? Don't start with RedHat, they are more a service company with their own distro than a distromaker. SuSE is not freely copyable. Any other companies? Ok, it did/does sound more than a bit pathetic, but positively sickening, no. I agree: never feel sorry for not spending money that you don't have. Or even for money that you do have if you don't feel like it and if you don't have to, legally. MottS wrote: Because you enjoy it and want to increase the possibility of being able to enjoy it in the future? BTW as a club member, you get some things that you don't get otherwise, (voting, extra packages etc) so there is a plus. Not a big one, maybe... ;) There I don't think so, just look at SuSE. (Or lindowsOS, xandros etcetc) It's very easy to include something proprietary (and Mdk has had loads of opportunities, from Frozen-bubble to the draketools and wizards). On the other hand, MottS, you are supporting Mandrake more than you think. Just by answering questions on this forum, the community around Mandrake becomes pleasant for newbies. So you are possibly worth more like this than a customer buying a pack or becoming member but never talking about it or so... I could actually think the same about me, I got 5 colleagues to use Mandrake, several are now supporting Mandrake financially, and often they come to me for tips (and I to them, so the synergy is working, which proves to me it was a smart move to go for a distro that you can pass around unlike SuSE), I'm helping out friends etcetc. There are more ways that lead to Rome. If you can't afford clubmembership, but you do have some time, you could help other people out with their problems (IRL or on this and other forums), help friends install mandrake, download and burn the cds for them, send bugreports etc. All of that is very beneficial to Mandrake. There is no guilt if you don't send any money in any way to Mandrake, as MottS said, it's free software. On the other hand, to those who didn't do any of the above things that helps Mandrake, you have no-one but yourself to blame if mandrake goes bust and you feel bad because you would have liked to continue to use it.... The reason I would like Mandrake to succeed is simple: it proves the Open Source business model can work. Mandrake was once profitable, and chances are it will be again. I think that OSS is the way to go, to be able to be in control, and not be controlled. More users/marketshare are needed, everyone moving to linux (whatever flavour) counts. This is only important to me so there will be enough incentive for companies to make drivers available for linux and to make native games available, so I can use (almost) any hardware on my favorite free platform that's under my control, and play the games that I may want to play. And I would like mandrake to succeed and not LindowsOS or Xandros or whatever, since they are not OSS. (And not RH, since they always stated they don't believe in linux on the desktop/for the home user, contrary to Mandrake, but when they saw Mandrake getting a nice marketshare they changed their tune...) BTW I only started contributing financially once I really moved away from that other OS and my linux setup was nicer/better/easier to use and less of a hassle in terms of administration overhead.
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