Jump to content

Gowator

Platinum
  • Posts

    5668
  • Joined

  • Last visited

Everything posted by Gowator

  1. If you have a better way to do it that doesn't infringe on some fair use practices, then feel free to suggest it to the record companies. The fact of the matter is, a lot of "fair use" practices are also manners in which you can pirate. Like I said, it's a thin line, and IMHO, the way Apple does it with iTunes and the iPod is quite possibly the best solution as of yet. I agree its imperfect ... however what I feel is that it is balanced way in favor of the record companies but regarding the new phono and lock-ins to products in general is where I think the issue overlaps... If you analyse the way apple "does it with iTunes" then its not a bad way but again it meets that specification that they just couldn't 'help themselves' making their own DRM stuff... that only the iPod would read. This is why in a way this needs some coherent legislation and the same way the way France put forwards isn't bad either :D i.e. If Apple can think of a better way then .... The fact it can be played on a normal Cd player is good... presuming you own one :D (I haven't used one in ages when I think about it) Anyway ... the DRM part is just an example and lets not get to bogged down as you said:D Other issues I have are things like proprietry connectors and such...again a Apple/Sony type thing to do... Even though Apple now provide a HD-15 converter for the minimac (a good step) they still have the philosophy of lock-in in many ways... just like Sony with the memory stick etc. and like I said about Nokia... the ability to use any Nokia charger is really useful as is the ability to buy 3rd part batteries and stuff...and it just illustrates a different company philosophy... to "how do we keep people buying our products" Memory sticks and funny connectors are something I try and stay away from :D experience has told me they tend to break and not be replaceable .. etc. or like the mem stick... do I then buy a Sony player and Sony Camera even if its not really what I want just because it has the connectors or same memory chips? So overall I think the consumer benefits from more choice ... and that since legislation is being made to protect the corporations it should equally protect the consumer... In many ways the industry has itself to blame... the music companies ignored the consumer choice to download files... for a long time instead wanting to preserve its CD business... the reult was illegal downloading becoming popular ... the movie iondustry signed the exclusive MS deal over DVD playback... the result was libdvdcss ... and again it did more than was needed for fair use... If a linux method HAS been available for $5 or $20 at the time the chance is libdvdcss would not have become the defacto way to rip DVD's to share on p2p .... Its ironic perhaps it was created to allow people to PLAY their legally bought DVD's on non Windows OS... but in cracking the protection it also allows copying... Again on batteries http://www.ipodhacks.com/article.php?sid=595 Again its swings and roundabouts or caveat emptor... One could say that Granny should have asked about this at the retail store prior to buying but then you can also say its like selling a car and not being able to refuel it... Overall, items are becoming more disposable.. in the developed world services and such are becoming prohibitively expensive compared to a consumer item made in the third world by the likes of Apple and Sony... My washing machine recently broke... its not an expensive one but ... looking into geting it serviced was over 50% of the price of a new one... in the end I just took it apart and serviced it myself and found a bobby pin in the water pump... now its working again :D but so many people just throw them out... Manufacturers have responded by building in obscelecence... Ive told the story og my HP printer before but basically I had a paper feed gear wheel replaced under warranty some 11 months into a 1 yr warrantry .. 1 months later it died again... and I gave it to my brother who luckily has a CAD/CAM laser cutter lying around :D so he knocked up an aluminium wheel and replaced it and the thing is now 6-7 years old and still working in a much higher turnaround environment...This wheel is actually made of specially soft plastic... its designed to fail because the manufacturer is basicaly giving you a very close fascimjile of the heavy duty office machines and the only real difference is this one is built to fail.. I just feel this is wrong... instead of the benefits of cheap manufacturing being passed onto the consumer they are swallowed by the company... and lets not get into the price of inkjet carts .... Again my Nokia is still going... If we jsut look at this, it is unreasonable? When my iPod dies shouldn't I still have the right to listen to the music? (and shouldn't I choose to buy another iPod or not at this point or perhaps I want to run linux :D ) .. in the same way you can argue its in the fine print... but equally its taking advantage of niaevity of consumers ...
  2. I think the issue is that if you purchase music it can only be played on your iPod? The issue seems either to invokie strong sentiment one way or another http://www.nytimes.com/2006/04/27/technolo...nyt&emc=rss is obvious passionate but fact wise the confusion over Quick doesn't shout "well researched piece..." Im not sure if this is any better... http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/technology/4828296.stm but my understanding was and notice in the same article Fair enough .... "it's a thin line between fair use and copyright holders rights." is true ... but as was touted in the US press this is not a bill to allow indiscriminate copying ... Ill try and keep away from that part. As you say its a thin line but in the context of this discussion ... one has to ask the question .. Is DRM simply an attempt at stopping illegal distribution. Going back to the statement by Michael Robertson the companies don't seem to be able to avoid the temptation of using it to control and restrict user choice. Along the same lines as the discussion on modchips... it depends if you own the XBOX... vs the software on the XBOX... etc. With the CD its sure you own the CD ?? and the right to play music off that CD ... (provided certain conditions are met (like being alone in a soundproofed building to prevent unliscenced people hearing it :D) ) but at some point the whole discussion goes from the tangible ... a physical XBOX or CD to the intangible in hidden software .. (by which I mean the copy protection is actually hidden) Its somewhat different to a book ... you can quote books etc. copy selected parts etc .etc. so in the end the whole intangible thing just becomes so abstract it doesn't really mean much... in the end only music and film seem to have this type of IP ... whereby they can dictate where you listen/watch and who with... the idea of reading aloud from a book being an IP issue seems somewhat ridiculous? (leastways to me) but watching a film in public (or any of the places listed in the wanring at the beginning) is .. or playing a CD loud or in a shop... So for me the problem isn't so simple, it seems music and film industries want their cake and eat it... and for a long time managed because 45 rpm records and celluose film were difficult to home copy so it was clear anyone copying a 45 or a movie was doing it for fraudulent purposes... So the right to re-distribute it is one thing but DRM is stopping a lot of other arguably fair-use practices...the main problem being IMHO the arguaments were never made..
  3. I know ! Ask them to return my letter from 5 years ago too .... I honestly think your best bet mid term might be to get a image of one of the disks from another club member who has it... You probably wanna let Mandriva know how you feel but honestly I doubt they don't care.... you paid you money they don't care oif you use it or use it as a keyring... In all the years I have been on this board I have neve3r heard of anyone getting customer service from Mandriva... and I mean ANY customer service even shoddy costomer service would be a start.
  4. Almost certainly Yes... Sort of.... it just enables a network connection .. the fact its internet not internal is of no difference ... except for the change in protocol to PPPOE or PPPOA.... BUT this is done transparently by your modem... PPPOE/A comes in and is routed to 100-baseT so your modem is actually a router ....(as well) (I know this is confusing but its really very simple once you get it and play you'll see its hard to explain without pictures) Yes she will if you give her permissions and share.... In reality internal/external is no different... if you open ssh I can ssh into your box (your router will need to allow this and any firewall policy) ... if you run apache I can browse it etc. etc. Your sister will have the SAME.... You can use a firewall to do almost anything restricting access theoretically say you ha apache installed and for some reason didn't want your sister to see your website fro her computer you just block http (port 80) from her IP address. What yuo need to be careful is that your modem is not hardwired (crippled) to only allow a single PC... The reality is almost all ADSL modems are just little embedded linux boxes... and use standard linux tools like ipchains/iptables etc. for routing ... You could plug a PPPOE/A card direct into a PC (I have done this) and authentificate over it and then use the ethernet into a switch/hub.... it will just act with some config like a hardware router...
  5. Yes but its only legal I presume in Australia (and only then since this month) when the Supreme court passed a landmark DRM case about mod chips saying that if they only enable the user to use the device (not copy games) then they are legal .. in particualr was the case of DVD zoning... and unlocking this (illegal in the UK but not enforced and paradoxically its also illegal to put zoning software on the device in the first place) wheras Australia rather sensibly IMHO decided if you are deliberatly locked out of watching a DVD you purchased you are perfectly OK to remove that impediment (but not copy the CD) ... hopefully this will have knock on effects in the UK... Yep its just an example but it still sucks they built that redundancy in instead of making it user servicable... Not quite. Real manipulated and worked out apple's DRM, allowing them to play apple DRM'ed music in their software. Apple, would have had no choice but to 'fix' that 'hole' in their DRM because of deals with the record companies to sell their music. So it's the record companies behind that. True ... but I don't think Apple were unhappy to plug the hole :D if you read the whole article its really the concept of companies not being able to resit the lock-in that is the issue (from my reading) Yep its very cool.... and pretty much KISS philosophy - the plug is only for power ... and the inclusion of the adapter really is awesome... as is the fact I could have got a $10 charger instead of a $10 Australian to Euro plug converter :D when I was in Oz! That's fightin talk in Nikon circles :D hah. I'm with Gowator on that one. LOL... both are really excellent and a lot is to do with familiarity... Yep but so does XP or OS-X ... which is the original point.... Yep see my post on why its not good for one country to dominate ... this is all largely an accident by the FAA .. the legislation says a user cannot alter the power output... (I see why) but accidentally this means no open source... even from companies that WANT TO.... This of course then prevents competition by companies who seek competitive advantage by releasing source code and leads us to knock thoise same manufacturers who actually want to but cannot (or loose the right to sell in the US) True but then does get a console sound familiar :D OS-X also has a restricted set of games compared to Windows.. True ... but then who wants to use MSN anyway .. I'm guessing if most people who do sat down with a lawyer and went through the EULA they might change thier minds pretty quickly... Yes and OCR support is missing too. The question of if Wine is good or bad for linux is perhaps best left for elsewhere and pretty much catch-22 anyway :D I couldn't get CS2 working in Wine (and so I doubt codeweavers can) because its specifically designed not to.... Adobe put a lot of effort into this... presumably ... Again I can see WHY... as opposed to flash versions missed (lazyness) I think they presume a lot of Linux users will only use cracked versions of photoshop ... Sad as it is to say this I think they are probably correct. LOL tags... but yep its sad and I really doubt it was the intention of the FAA.... and the firmware route means cheaper hence they lose that advantage of they go HW only... Didn't check the lionk yet but I looked into this a while ago and I like your term "legal crap" because that is what it is... The problem is $$$$$ .... Since we are talking apple.... back in the early DVD ROM days only Windows had a liscense to play DVD's on a PC... Apple made a big fuss saying how this was everything from illegal to just plain dumb (and I agreed) BUT then when Apple got the rights to play DVD's they suddenly switched sides.... If you compare with 802.11 firmware "legal crap" its the same story... MS and Apple will support the restriction and pay money for lobbying (in countries where its legal to buy votes and by other means elsewhere) to keep this law... because it gives them an advantage (at the expense of the customer being incidental) So going back to the quote I took from Michael Robertson I think this just generally hold true.... you can add Sony (as you know my opinion) as well. In the end companies have to make a concerted effort to be open, its not natural for them especially today. Intel is I think trying hard as is IBM but its not a simple thing for them to do. Of course Intel and IBM are not perfect but they have taken the steps and are making the effort and in the end it comes down to a company culture which as we chatted about can vary drastically from continent to continent.
  6. Yes in reality its much simpler than you are making it :D I was just suggesting it might be simpler to replace the lot with a single box....you save on power requirements (they draw a suprising amount) and simplicity and fault diagnosis... The PPPOE and PPPOA is the gotcha but otherwise that's what the ADSL router is doing.. it takes PPPOE or PPPOA at one end and routes it to (fast) ethernet on the other...or you just plug in a hub/switch and plug the cables into that... My Belkin I paid GBP 50 about 4 yrs ago... with a bundled PCMCIA card... in the sales ... OK the router died but it was still very cheap... and the PCMCIA card is still working....
  7. Yes all true and I agree, I can't fault the logic :D but I also think Mandriva simply lack a consistent direction ..... Suse probably have more dev's and resources, true but then Mandriva need to be less ambitious.... People will put up with application problems because you can always use something else... even if its only for 50% and another app for another 50% but being unable to boot is a show stopper.... An example is the inclusion of the 3D desktop.... (by default as well) ... if Mandriva had focussed on improving consistency NOT adding a pretty but useless (well uneeded) feature they could have ironed out real show stoppers .. same goes for upgrading the interface and wizards... just concentrate on fixing the ones which exist before adding new functionality... I agree they don't have the resources but I don't think they (overall) seem to recognise this....so they are constantly going in 10 directions at once. The result is breaking parts that previously worked and this itself looses REPEAT customers (Im one) and this then becomes its own catch-22. Yes true BUT they could fix this by communication! If they published the bios versions and were honest that they hadn't tested others so milage may vary then people wouldn't be dissapointed.... BUT the real irony is that sometimes the fix in one release it to upgrade the BIOS... and then in the next release this bios doesn't work ... Again "consistency" and "transparent communication" would solve this.... Going back to Suse... I ordered my 9.1 (I think) on the web... got an immediate eMail for queries and tracking number (its not rocket science) and then update emails on the processing/shipping until 3 days later it arrived. Ripping open the box I was even more impressed .... CD and DVD versions of 64bit and 32bit... (Oh and a big thick manual :D) The price was LESS than a single media (CD OR DVD) Powerpack for 32bit OR 64 bit... I got 4 times the software in effect ... (The point being this cost Suse an extra $5 perhaps since commercial duplication is REALLY cheap but it impressed the hell outa me) Mandriva.. you can't even email ....!!! so the user consumer experience and professionalism were completely different! (deliberate strike out)
  8. I posted the first link before but its worth a read... http://www.michaelrobertson.com/archive.php?minute_id=168 See also http://news.com.com/Getting+Bad+with+Apple..._3-5861493.html No, I don't have one either - ad don't plan to buy one anytime. Nor do I see the articles above.... I think its great hardware* but the lock-in is just not acceptable to ME.... The fact its designed to be useless when the battery dies also sucks! Lets face it for many purposes a 4GB iPod would still hold a lot of music in 5 years time... the lack of user replaceable battery means it won't... and I beleive this is by design... Like Arctic I guess Im not human :D I'm not trashing HCI... but its not everything and sometimes its far less important than actually doing the job... I used OS-X over XMAS as you know... some things I liked and other things I hated... somethings were "training" (like the 1 button mouse was impossible) Many things are just workflow related... if we forget Gimp's restrictive 8 bit color space is it really so bad.. photoshop users generally think so but then they also knock Corel PSP ... My feeling is that within certain workflows it is good and other workflows bad. For instance I could move my digital photo development and processing quiote happily to a Mac... along with Open Office and (see no real reason for MS office) such but I wouldn't want to move my whole workflow to Mac because its too restrictive. In many ways its like arguing over VCR or recordable DVD..... yes DVD is technically better in MANY ways but not for the utility of just recording and achiving the Simpsons... and being able to rewatch it ... On the other hand if I rent a movie I want it on DVD (pref high def to project onto my wall with full surround) but I never really considered high def a big plus watching a cartoon where people are yellow to save money :D QUOTE("iphitus") My Nokia 6280 was half the price, ~$500AU and the iPhone just under $1000AU - I could get a half decent laptop for that. My Nokia is an aging something or other.... can't read it its so scratched up :D and it does basic stuff like making calls. The nice thing is I can buy a replacement cover/battery including third party and in Europe you can ALWAYS find a Nokia charger and they are all the same..(OK they finally changed but it was consitent for years). Its not unusual for me to go to my local and ask for them to charge my phone while I have a drink! In contrast, before that I had a expensive Sony-Erikson ... their were no officially recognised 3rd party batteries (the death of the phone cos I wasn't paying more than my present phone cost to replace a battery) and the chargers changed each model... so you could never find a charger... unless you carried one. (bear in mind using a non endorsed battery invalidates the warranty) I don't think its coincidence that the company that endorses 3rd party accessories and add ons for their phone is also embracing linux.... That's fightin talk in Nikon circles :D You don't need to be non-American to see that dominance of a single nation in any one area is not good for innovation. The US has some pretty quirky laws (Im not saying bad .. just by international developed country standards quirky) refer back to http://www.michaelrobertson.com/archive.php?minute_id=168 But also the One Laptop per child initiative is keen not to lock this into anyone country... In many cases the technology that can be exported from the US is restricted ... and some US laws unintentionally prevent opensource development (like the FAA laws about 802.11 firmware) ... Additionally the US shelters its companies that do illegal acts elsewhere... Microsoft used this to delete linux from many XBOXES in Europe ... a crime which has a mandatory prison sentence in Germany at least... Im guessing they didn't delete any from US boxes because this would be illegal but they are free to break the laws of other countries so long as they do it from Redmond. Also iTunes is set to become illegal in France UNLESS Apple provide cross platform compatibility so that you can use it legally without iTunes... this is not a bad thing but it might force an opening up and less restrictions that benefit EVERYONE. In the same way the EU/Microsoft case was something unlikely to ever be achived in the US because of lobbying and what becomes vote buying. I'm not saying the EU would have been so rigerous against an EU company :D but then the US can also be useful for opening up European companies... So a mix of different cultures and technology is probably a healthier thing all round... if the 90% market share company was Chinese Im sure you would feel the same way...
  9. The biggest prob is that CIFS doesn't support full file attributes.... last modification time and access time etc. so you should be OK GOING to the "Windows drive" but not the other way round.... Im not certain how drak backup itself works but commercial SW usually has a FULL, partial and incremental and these use the file attributes to see what is changed... My GUESS is its really just a front end for rsynch More sophisticated backup SW (especially for Windows) uses a database of the files... since in Windows the full attributes are not available (might be in some versions of NTFS but then this is also partially handled by a Windows database) You might check out http://lists.samba.org/archive/rsync/2002-May/002668.html http://www.mikerubel.org/computers/rsync_s...hots/index.html
  10. If you have the opportunity I'd recommend just getting rid of the ADSL modem and the router/hub and replacing it with one which does Wifi and routing as well. They are not expensive anymore and as regards problem solving it simplifies your setup immensly...and you can often (especially this time of year) get bundled wifi card/ADSL router in one... for not much more than the price of either... Otherwise its pretty much supported under the routers software.... just use DHCP and plug n play. Once its working you can mess about with static IP's or setting DHCP to give the same IP to the same MAC add each time... play with NAT etc. If you transfer huge amounts of data consider checking the router is switched... this meas you are not essentially sharing one 100MB connection but most Wifi routers are by their nature switched if they also support wired... otherwise only one would work at once and switching is the simplest way to achive this) Technically I have had two Belkin wifi products just die on me... like they just stopped working and trawling the web suggests its not uncommon and its because the memory holding the firmware is dodgy ... Philosophically I'd not recommend some brands because of their linux policy... Netgear makes some fine routers and ADSL routers BUT last time I purchsed a card they had the drivers in a self-extracting Windows zip... that by design or accident didn't work under wine... i.e. I needed the windows drivers for ndiswrapper but couldn't extract them (someone on the board did it for me) .. so I vowed never to buy netghear again... In the end I'd reccomend downloading the manuals before buying ... check the capabilities and interface is web supported ...
  11. I ticked "could be installed but has serious problems that need to be fixed yet." I'm sure I could get it to work with some time and hacking BUT "I just didn't see why I would want to... (that in itself is sad) ... the thing is if I wanted a mess/hack about distro I would be using arch or gentoo so I had near zero patience for Mandriva ... so I was lazy about getting it to work but let me explain why (or not if your not ready for a gowatorial rant) or skip to the bottom... I can only equate this to Suse.... I didn't really want to use it but tried it a year or so ago... and pretty much everything worked... (OK except Xine but that's another story) .. this is what I expect from Mandriva. I hate to put it in a Windows perspective but .... its like this... some distro's are lots of fun but you spend too long playing about and tweaking to do any work. there are a couple of very wise comments/observations I remember from this board... One was a long time ago when Ix advised me sometimes a reinstall might not be the best technical way but we all have lives/families/pets who want to see us occaisionally ... :D and its true... sometiomes you just want the blasted thing to WORK... You know sometimes you just need to write that letter to the insurers/bank/utility company and PRINT the blasted thing not spend an hour getting the network working or printer to print... The second wise thing sticks in my mind (Im sure there are many more these two come to mind now) was Arctic when he switched to Gnome... For me he actually gave the best arguament EVER ... if anyone ever reads it properly then it would end KDE/Gnome wars forever... what he said was KDE was so customisable so easily that he spent countless wasted hours playing with it. Much as I'm a big KDE fan I have to acknoweledge this ... (you won't see my desktop in the show off thread cos its the default more or less kanotix desktop) ... but I have to say he has a damned good point... So this brings me to Mandriva... what do I expect...? It a paid for distro... (OK I tried the DL edition but posts here lead me to beleive this was not the issue) so I expect the blasted thing to just worki! Suse can do it and I dislike Suse for other philosophical reasons NOT because it doesn't work! Ignoring the fact I use gtk-gnutella/gaim etc. which *need* frequent updates because of protocols etc. I could stick in a kanotix CD and all my network cards (including wifi) and printers will work... If I don't want to upgrade and install my own stuff (i.e I just want the basic office productivity) but just wait for the next CD and keep my home seperate then it will keep working until I decide to try the latest CD... I'm sure its not the only one but its the one I experienced...and its FREE and a handful of developers (pre-sidux split) ... that is it satisfied my basic needs and replaces Windows completely (except OCR) ... I don't expect this from Gentoo or arch but then they don't pretend it... so I class Mandriva in the everything basic should work category. Measuring it up against Suse it fails badly... ________________________________________________________________________________ _____ non gowatorial readers start again here ________________________________________________________________________________ _____ But to me the bottom line is illustrated by Mysties experience (and lawson)... inconsistency over what works and what doesn't from release to release. This is my #1 technical gripe with Mandriva. They seem completely unable to get one but of hardware consistently working across releases and for each fixed chipset etc. another one seems to break. (Im not talking new ones just ones that worked before) This really pisses me because its a paid distro... and this shows a shirking of that responsibility. Moreover I BUY hardware to be linux compatible... I haven't used Windows in YEARS... so when I go out and BUY hardware and it works (perhaps by trying the download version) I expect that being happy I could buy the next powerpack release and everything that worked in the previous one should work... For all my rants about Mandriva philosophy IF this was the case I would strongly consider Mandriva as my boring but stead distro... I can't see it being my only distro but I would pay-up for a distro that was always there for me... when I have an urgent letter to print etc. Its my opinion Mandriva presume their users will use Windows to perform this function?
  12. Yep and a lot of us agree..... The problem is not the actual product in most cases but the communication. If someone actually spoke to you or answered an email and said they were working on it then ... well you'd feel less pissed. Look on the bight side my email is now going on 5 years ! Yes support like mystie ... and they said "Try Mandriva expert" ... and the probloem ... the CD's I had were unreadble (and not even properly round)
  13. You can just mount the disks and copy the info then for instance change the mount point of /home to that partition... So if your mandriva home is /dev/hda4 (for example) you can just make a mount point like /home/null/old_home with mkdir and then mount mount /dev/hda4 /home/null/old_home If you are using testing then I'd repeat arctic's earlier suggestion and think of using sidux... its 99% identical but sometimes when tweaks come out or a buggy package hits the unstable/testing mirrors it will be fixed in sidux sooner + you get a lot of tools to keep it up to date... It depends a lot on how you and to keep up to date though... If your happy doing big almost reinstalls then no need but if you want to try and keep current its much easier. Somewhere inbetween its no big difference... That is if you use sidux you apt-get upgrade often (weekly or so) and you get any warnings first... if you don't then the current upgrade can be outa step (not usually it just can be) so incremental updates are better carried out through sidux ... whereas if you wait 6 months then you will have a bit of playing about but apt always fixes it for me. This might sound strange, but once you get used to the Debian rolling upgrades it will make more sense ... (what might happen for instance is libs get outa synch .. so you update but some are still unmet deps... usually you just repeat the update until there are no more changes... but sometimes for huge changes like xfree -> xorg (or HAL/DBUS) you might have a few changes this is where sidux helps because the tweaks are already done and a script usually exists... Also you then get an excellent forum (less friendly perhaps than here but more tech based and with the devs answering the questions which makes a huge difference){its not unfriendly btw just more tech focussed :D } See contuinue here button: http://sidux.com/
  14. I dont think so ... he said bugs and issues... Actually he said, referring to my "they screwed it" comment: That is something slightly different, Gowator. It was not about their lack of communication. Its still pretty fair IMHO because if the communication was there then it would not be such a let down. but it also depends how you interpret "screwed it" .. I interpreted it like "I was having a wonderful releationship then I screwed it" because I think the problem is the communication compunding the small technical mistakes. If mindwave had the same experience but the product actually worked as advertised then I doubt he would be dissapointed so much. (Im just guessing) by the lack of communication. The fact is if the distro worked as adveristised communication wopuld be less important .. it would still be regretable IMHO they don't communicate with their clients but not so negative. I would be a lot more generous with buggy software from people who communicate... I just posted this on the bibble forum btw because I am OK with a little instability from then since bug reports are listened to and answered and in most cases patches available the same day! I use this because its also commercial.... and my impression of Bibble is very good because of the communication. I honestly don't mind the odd crash with new plug-ins or stuff because I know they listen and actually do something... if they stop doing this then I'd say they "screwed it" and my impression would then be that the product is bad... because my impression only stands as excellent while they communicate. hmm does that make sense? I just mean you can't seperate them (communication and buggyness) over something subjective ...because a certain amount of buggynessis OK so long as its acknowledged?
  15. I completely agree. It seems that they could have made a good product and completely screwed it. :sad: Hmm the product might still be good, its the "packaging" that isn't.... I didn't see anything critically bad in the "review" of the actual product... just the packaging and business practice being shoddy and misleading (well basically dishonest) ... The space issue really sucks.... because its one thing to buy A product and not like the placement of K3B its another if its not fit for the purpose you bought it for... If you have worked out that your move will need 1GB of free space because you want to carry around photo?, music or whatever data and decided you can live with 1GB and find you have 600MB its pretty much useless for your intended use. I compare this to buying an MP3 player with X Gb ... my GF just bought one and had calculated exactly she needed 5GB (and some space for new stuff) ... so we purchased a 6GB instead of the 4GB ... if she had got it home and found it had less than 6GB she wouldn have been able to use it as she intended which was the primary archive of her MP3 ´s as it is she has 1GB spare for the odd video or some photo? etc. The ultimate irony is the Mandriva advert .. size does matter ! The fact is yes it blinking well does!!!!! and the lost 400MB is pretty poor especially when they could easily have said 600MB or got rid of some extraneous packages... Speaking personally I would be very pissed .... because given the choice between the 3D desktop and the free space I take the free space for a MOVE type distro.... its really the whole point of having it on a ÜSB key NOT a bootable CD... I dont think so ... he said bugs and issues... I find this and the lack of communication a HUGE issue. Anyone using arch (which is free) or even kanotix/sidux would be given answers and somewhere to communicate and the devs would respond... they might just say sorry, its a mistake but they WOULD RESPOND ... so the total lack of communication really is a huge issue and when this is combined with bugs it compounds. Similarly Iph doesn need to be using Mandriva because he reads the posts here... The initial release of 2007 was pants ... especially the broken RPM drake since this is pretty critical to a N00b actually fixing it and the l;ack of communication saying yes its a bug but if you download the new fixed RPM drake and rpm -i it then it will be fixed and you can deal with other stuff.
  16. Ive been away too ... Haven't done the latest but from memory the netinstall doesn't install ANY X at all..... I usually just do apt-get install kde This then pulls in everything except 1-2 small things... and installs a whole set of xserver-xorg-<modulename> ... most of which you don't need! It appeared to finish correctly, no errors. However, there is no diff in X not working. Still doesn't work. dpkg -l |grep X.Org things to try... Stop kdm (or gdm etc.) /etc/init.d/kdm stop startX from CLI as startx check error message sudo dpkg-reconfigure -phigh xserver-xorg This is pretty much like posting the top 10 ways to commit suicide on a suicide helpline site.
  17. Before I answer I should say I have a friend who is an alcoholic and although he's a really nice guy really you should never give him money. A few years ago+ I made my first post on this board having a very similar experience with Mandrake ... basically dishonest packaging and damaged media and tried emailing them etc. Several years later I still think Mandriva can be great but I would never trust them with money! Actually that's normal for shipping software, $8 is the supposed value of the media ... I used to ship SW for over $1 million a shot and the value was the price of the tapes minus shippinng, insurance .etc.. in effect its like you bought the stick and the right to the SW .... so relax over that one :D OK they are improving.... if they didn't send you a subscription for the mandriva club worded so it seems you need to join to use the prodct they have made one small step in the last few years! Ah then this is the same company used tro be called Mandrake.... when they actually delivered in less than 6 months I was starting to think they must be a different company :D You might want to check your credit card though ...sometimes it seems they charge 100x the amount by accident and then say its not trhier fault but that of their bank (although they will still REFUSE) to communicate with you. This is perhaps more suited to a usuability review than your genuine business practice post :D Well the customs invoice says $8 ... + post, package and insurance.. from your descirption of the package lets say $5 in total? So lets say $70-$13 or $57 Again this is usability, you can change that so fair cop? (Im just seperating out the usability from business practice ... cos Im guessing if the rest had been smooth and HONEST you wouldn't be pissed !) I would say search the threads.... this is the first thing you said I disagree with but I disagree STRONGLY.... please search the threads here, there is absolutely NO NEED ... if you insist you need to change 3 letters in kdmrc ... but I encourage you REALLY STRONGLY not to.... No need to reboot? but lets continue.... I didn't see the ad but I presume it says you have a GIG out of a 2 Gig stick? This is so typical Mandriva they are just basically dishonest and can't see what is wrong with this. The irony is they could easily be honest ... for no cost by removing a few games and making thee locales per country or per order for starters... Before anyone says BUT he can do this himself .... No he can't because he might want to use the mythical restore CD and restore the flash stick... and if he has made it up to 1GB in room he won't have space ...!!! Also how can he know its all working when he has to deinstall parts and thier deps? Well this I'd say depends... since they advertise a GIG free then they should do something to free it... if this means making a different image per country/region then well.... this is a valid way to reclaim 400MB ... There were some faults with URMPI and MCC ... Im guessing these are your problem here.... do a search or start a seperate thread for this... and hopefully we will sort this out.... Again start a thread .... Im betting we at mandrivausers will sort this out.... LOL where to? seriously ... Yep ... like I say I like a lot of the technical stuff from Mandriva but they just don't understand business ethics. Like my alcoholic friend they just can't be trusted with money !
  18. Well I didn't mean its the best tool...but I had it in the back of my mind while thinking of concepts, it might be OK or we mioght find something more suited to a magazine? The most important part for me is whatever we use has an open dev interface so people can contribute :D so I used this as an example because i know this is part of the standard install but something else might be better .... in a way this is a big project so "Joomla is dead easy to learn" doesn't count so much as overall features for what we need because we will spend a lot more collective time writing and editing etc. than EVER configuring the software :D (Joomla is cool if you just want minimum learning ... and quick start but I honestly think the features are what will make this mag a success or not :D) by features I mean the 21C magazine On DM's, Im with Tyme, it should do all 3 major ones (and including pro's cons of each).... when I say I won't be doing Gnome its not because I obect to it.. its because I don't know it well enough... but I honestly think one tight rule should be no WM wars.... they are all fine for different things/people .... and I'd rather give them equal weight... (Id like to do lots but like Tyme says that can be added later) but in the end the weighting will be down to contributers and the best instruction is an athesit view of WM so that stuff is as muich as possible not focussed on one or the other unless the feature is about say advanced Gnome config then obviously that's different :D and a lot of stuff is actually all three now with the common desktop files etc. so even better...
  19. Yep good sense.... Im biassing my ideas by what I know .. one software is Joomla there is probably something more suited but it demonstrates how this can be done in several ways.... 1/ Firstly you have different levels from user-editor-publisher-administrator etc. so adding something can be done by anyone but its not published until an publisher accepts it... an editor can edit but not publish others work etc. 2/ The pdf generation is on the fly... all the articles are put together as HTML dynamically but when you want a PDF (or to print) it calls the pdf and its made dynamically. As someone suggested landscape works best for onscreen reading so its set to make a landscape PDF... So yep it would be set flag to Jan2007 and extract PDF.... or view online etc etc. or you could se tthe flag to a series (like I said maybe a 12 month running series and print out just that series) or make a PDF of it... so it would be all together ....
  20. First off don't try anything else until you have backed it up.... You can use a live CD with dd_rescue on it.... (Kanotix off the top of my head has it but so do others) This will copy the partitions and skip over errors and white space... For any linux/FAT32 parts you can then mount this image just like it was a disk.... (you use a -o loop option but we can get onlto that later) I generally think NTFS recovery is best done in Windows... using native tools its not impossible from Linux more more invloved and you need more expertise... All IDE drives are swapable, you might need to adjust the pins.... Use the BIOS setup to see they are detected.. you can power off/on at this point which saves time if you have to experiment with the twiddly little jumpers on the back... You really need to do some researcxh on this because the last thing you wanna do is loose data and by definition its a fairly involved process.... The good news my GF's HDD died last month with bad sectors and I recovered 100% of the data with patience and research.... Research is indispensible and do it before you panic :D Make sure you only attempt this when your free from distractions and take careful notes... in my case I lost some of the sectors on the system part which was no big deal because it only had progs not data :D
  21. Dexter, that isn't what anyone has said.... its 2 seperate issues ...(at least to me) I'm not against "video tutorials"... I'm against "text versus video". I (and I think everyone else) is quite happy to have video tutorials and/or links to them ... what I (and I think others are against) is the format being "video" based... and the issue of video completely replacing text... I can see how video tutorials fit in and can even be linked together but I and I think everyone else is not convinced they can replace text in the context of a magazine.... (even a 21C magazine) I tend to agree and if others are happy then I can contribute Debian stuff and the like ... but perhaps a Mandriva focus??? Personally I'd like to see a rather more equal footing of "other distro's" vs "Mandriva" than the format here where all other distro's are lumped together but I'm flexible if others want more Mandriva bias... but like Emmanuel says its not exclusive because a Gimpo tutorial is pretty much disto independant?? Yes and No ??? This is how I see it at least with the different levels of articles... I'll go with your Gimp example since its a good one.... We can have a Gimp tutorial at total N00bs but the "How to install part" should link to a general page on easy urmpi for Mandriva and Apt/Synaptic for Debian... Pacman for Arch etc. Since the article is n00b based it doesn't need to go into compiling and installing the latest SVN version...but a footnote/link can go to how to install from source.... for advanced n00bs or people to look back on next year when they are no longer a complete n00b? This is where I think the 21C format wins over the traditional magazine....because the ability to link into advanced topics and filter by experience level with give the end user more choice and flexibility... Once again, Im not against video per se ... a short setting up easyURPMI video might be a nice thing at this point ... but the idea is that the easy urmpi is generic for all mandriva installs... like a FAQ... this is what I mean by the reference/archive sections... Other links would then be to APT install or emerge .. again with optional video... What I am against is structuring the magazine around video to the exclusion of text.... :wink: not video tutorials... Again I believe we can avoid this.... we make the stubs... if someone wants to do Gnome they can... (it won't be me though) .. the idea is to take contributions (in my idea) and put the infrastructure in place to accept and publish them regardless of DM/WM or distro.... As I said we also have a lot of this already done here... we can copy posts and FAQ's (presuming noone minds) and also copyleft from other distro documentation.... (Im writing some sidux docs right now which are ALL copyleftable for instance the burning an ISO to CD in windows part) and that is I think the true spirit of Opensounrce and Opendocumentation .. the LDP has huge sections to be included.. perhaps modified or simplified but still stuff that can be copied and used as a base...Many of the FAQs here actually suffer from lackl of included graphics which could simplify them (many is the time I thought describing a roiuter config is somewhat arduous in ASCII art....:D ) :wink: My perception might be a bit grand but I think its all possible... Seems like a good working base but my idea is that the stuff develops organically.... Wiki like so a user might follow a tutorial on say installing a Palm and find that their model isn't supported but work out how to hack their model... (usually adding 1-2 lines to modules.conf or whatever file depending on distro again this is where the links can help... with a table of equaivalents like if you need to edit module.conf in Debian you actually modify XXXX) So in effect they add their note which extends the article, adds a more advanced level (editing on the CLI) etc. I don't think thats a problem because the "archive" is really virtual.... Say the submissions are by month.... or bi monthly then they can be seen by for example a URL to ~/Jan2007/ but the reality is the documents are all just stored and viewing by month is just a use of the filter/order... simply put show all Jan2007 stuff ordered by page # See the database/filter concept really gives huge flexibility... :D My idea is to keep that flexibility to the maximum.... so you can text search, index search etc. and that if the concept is sucessful others (or ourselves) will write search routines and stuff....( I have a lot of professional experience doing this btw..:D ) so it becomes user/contributer driven.... The idea would be to use a pre-existing wiki type SW that is open so people can make "plug-ins" for searches and save searches they can share with everyone etc.
  22. Everybody seems to agree with this. Actually if you reread the thread, nobody *ever* talked about it being CLI-centered. The issue is that Tux had nearly no CLI whatsoever, and an allergy to it even. So "we" wondered how much of it would be suitable. The issue is how much CLI, and what level. I would say about "25% of mag at maximum", 10% min. There is a big chance the links will go into more command lines. That would be my take.... or its just a combination... i.e. supplimented with something like "CLI tricks and tips" which could be a link... for example IMHO a GUI tutorial should show how to achive the task but also note the limitations and then provide links or insets .... for users that want to explore.... I agree completely because this gives it the magazine FEEL more than a text book.... I have a few... and I think the wiki concept is the way to go... perhaps some of the other members have ideas... I think tyme is quite into Wiki stuff??? and offered hosting etc. Yep I honestly think the planning and structure is the KEY.... Because its for N00bs then basing the structure around n00b stubs is probably the best way? I envision perhaps using little insets.... like quote boxes with a small paragraph of text which can then link to more detailed articles... What I think is important is metadata for the articles... in many ways like a DMS (doc management system) ... This would, by my preference be embedded in the headers (XML?) so it can be searched in inventive ways... For instance some fixed fields like experience level say 1-5 .... DM/WM specific, distro specific because I think a lot of "value" for the mag might be in the archives (previous editions) and as importantly linking back to previous editions... For instance (since Im working on digital photo's now...) a series on digital photography.... over 12 months...but this would then have keywords for relevant SW and also hardware and reviews of SW and even cameras... and related news items like product releases ... The basic presentation should be dual format.... by which I mean archive mode or monthly mode... in monthly mode you read linerarly wheras in archive mode you principally filter/search.... The basic idea perhaps something like a online computer parts store.... here is one example (search wiose not presentation) http://www.dabs.com/ So you can search by item, brand etc. but also compare and find similar etc. ????
  23. Yep I have ultra fast broadband (22Mbit) but even so I tend to shy away from video ... its largely due to the "other reasons" you mention... firstly knowing exactly what is in it... Im actually looking at photoshop stuff right now for some blending for photo's (neddie posted a post on this and its renewed my interest) but the video tutorials I shy away from ... why? Mainly because I don't know what's inside before I download... (I think) I am really a photoshop n00b so I need a definitive type tutorial .. that is the SAME ICONS and the SAME menu's and CS2 is significantly different to elements etc. By significant I mean enough to get me lost in this for me complex operation. (The way levels, channels and masks is handled is different and to be honest Im only half aware what these mean....) {time to do some reading} So before I look at a video tutorial I want to be completely sure its for CS2 ... Now the irony is maybe if I was a photoshop expert I could use the elements tutorial.... This is what I was saying about small changes screwing up n00b's... I honeslty need the icons and menu's to be the same.. not similar because its quite a complex operation .... I realise this might sound lame but its honestly true... if Im following a video tutorial for something Im a n00b at I want it to be definitive. If we extend this to tutorials for say Mandriva then I think if I was a beginner doing disk partitioning/resizing or other "scary" operations I would feel the same.... The second reason is perhaps the fact after the video tutorial I will probably achieve what I wanted... (merging the two photos) but not understand how/why it worked the same as reading it and understanding masks and channels .... . I realise this is my perspective but these are my main reasons ... not bandwidth which I have plenty of so adding bandwidth restrictions just compound this? Yes this is another excellent point ... You can search withing them (and pdf's you can also use the acrobat indexer) so I have a few 1000 page photoshop books but I can jump stright to the pages I want (or think I want) and read a bit before trying to follow the tutorial.... I completely agree .. all I am saying is the CLI does have and always will have a place... and should not be ignored. N00bs need to be encouraged (not forced) to explore the possibilities ... (and the real power of linux) so they can get the most out of it... I sorta disagree here.... let me qualify that though.... You say minority OS for geeks in one sentence :D but if I can subtly reword that... Geeks is used a little "negatively" ... so try substituting the word "enthusiast" .... ... meanwhile minoirity isn't always a bad thing... (or good thing) ... that is it has some plus's and minus's ... So I think a lot of this is in presentation ... something the magazine can address :D (just chopping your quote up here for consistency....) This is exactly what is needed IMHO .... but not excluding the CLI but explaining how/why .. Not long ago someone here complained that something weas impossible to do throught the GUI in Gnome without the CLI... or root access to the desktop. I don't even use Gnome but it took me 10 minutes (after installing it) to do it in the GUI... However .. was it easier in the GUI ??? Not IMHO ... I could have pasted a single line to do this from the CLI... In Western culture we say "The pen is mightier than the sword... in Japanese roughly translated they say "pen and sword in accord" .... In this context I say CLI and GUI in accord... one should be presented with the OPTION for both and the limitations of the GUI method (which is nearly always inferior to the CLI method not that it always matters) Linux has evolved by way of analogy from a tempremental rally car to a well behaved but powerful street car. (I have never seen so many Subaru WRX's as in Oz :D) I have a rally tuned 306 ... 240 bhp which is incredible FUN but a lousy car to go shopping in... My brother has a AMG tuned SLK (again OZ seems to have the highest concentration I ever so) .. but they are completely seperate beasts ... In a straight line I can do 0-100km/h in around the same time.. the SLK takes 4.6 ... secs but the SLK is much smoother ... According to http://www.track-challenge.com/main_e.asp?...r1=81%26Car2=10 track times are about the same (despite the huge power difference in the merc (over 600 bhp) and even bigger torque difference ... Linux used to be like a Rally car ... misbehaved, tempramental and unless you got under the hood (bonnet) regualrly liable to breaking... but this isn't where it ends ... the SLK has a sport mode and a civilised mode with engine management and traction control etc. switch off the electronics and its almost undrivable in the wet... put them on and it will outperform the rally car on tarmac unless the driver is a REAL pro... My brother also has a Jag XK8 ... to be honest I find it completely DULL.... (so does he but its his company car) it goes quite fast .... it accelerates well and handles OK but it just FEELS dull.... Linux has its civilised face but underneath it is that huge 6l 600hp and 1000 nm s-1 monster... just waiting to be switched on... OS-X is to me like the Jaguar... very comfy and really quite powerful but its all hidden away behind the civilised veneer... and like the Jaguar you can't just turn it on/off.... Linux is now like the SLK but with the pricetag of the Subaru or WRX car's.... and with the engine efficiency of developing 300 bhp from a 2l engine...(by analogy making the most of your PC hardware) You can turn off the control (use the CLI) and unleash a monster.... noone is forcing you to use it but why spend the money on the AMG tuned SLK if you don't want to use it? If you want a powerful and comfy car then there are other cheaper options... and less confusing ones... Also if you turn up at a race track with the SLK other woners will expect you to use the power .. IMHO why pay to use a race track if your going to leave it in "civilised mode" ... In the oppostite direction I once had a driver across the desert (a 12 hr trip) who insisted using only the 4th gear (on road) for 1000 km... Why? His own car (not the agencies) only had 4 speeds and he was perfectly happy with it so why use the 5th gear on the land cruiser VX? Erm... IMHO one really good reason.... we would have spent half the time refuelling .... (The guy could have had a permanently diff locked landrover he only used in low ratio ... but driving 1000miles on tarmac in it would be painful) So Linux is a bit like buying a monster SUV or race tuned car and then not using it as intended if you "refuse" to ever use the CLI... Im not saying everyone should use it ALL the time... but people should be aware it is there and more powerful than the GUI.... otherwise they get to the sand dune and try climbing it in 2WD high ratio and wonder why it doesn't work.... Linux is infinitly tunable and tweakable... but most of the best (enthusiast) stuff is CLI dependent or at least more control/easier in the CLI... noone is forcing people to use it but ... if you are stuck in a SUV on a sand dune but refuse to use diff lock and 4WD then don't be surprised if the guy you ask to go out of his way to tow you resents the fact you refuse to engage the functions the SUV was designed with. I don't mean that in a nasty way but people who just refuse on principle to use the CLI are cutting off their nose to spite their face. Often its much easier to help someone using the CLI... (because they can copy/paste exactly what you say/type) etc. compared to a long dran out set of GUI instructions... Going back to the earlier real example.. the person complaining about the "safety swtich" of no root login and saying what he needed was impossible without it or the CLI followed the instructions the first time round ... and when they didn't work wondered why... it turned out he ws using gnome and we were giving instructions for KDE.... Again not an accusation, this just illustrates how the same thing could have been achieved through the CLI independant of DM/WM because as a n00b he hadn't thought to mention he was using Gnome... The result was a lot of wasted time for those trying to help him BUT more seriously his impression of Linux was tainted ... his impression was "this is crap it doesn't work".... but really it was a combination of his n00bness and refusing to use the GUI that gave the impression.... I can give hundreds of examples... like "why do I loose 5% of my disk?".... or so which are GUI induced "inefficiencies" (even though diskdrake pets you change this in advanced tabs the GUI tends to propogte defaults because you don't read the man page) Hopefully I dealt with that? But I still think Linux isn't for everyone.... or at least all of the people allof the time.... I dislike almost everything about XP but OS-X is a fine OS if you are not an "enthusiast" .... It also illustrates the difference why.... If apple control the HW (i.e. they only certify what they want) then they can be almost 100% GUI based... and for most people who need to surf the internet and do office tasks 100% GUI based ... but if you ewant linux to be the same it would mean limiting the hardware and many of the kernel options... The only way aroud this is to achieve a huge market share bigger than Windows...and this simply isn't happening soon nor likely since the way it is built and developed doesn't lend itself to this... *BSD might... hence the reason Apple used Darwin as a base not Linux :D but that is because the development model for BSD is different...and it is built differently... Do I want to see more linux users? Yes .. but not at the cost of going the Apple route and excluding huge amounts of hardware... because if that is what I want ..I'll buy an Apple... (and I have considered it a few times) Finally I think the CLI "geek" image is something projected negatively... I thiny many n00b's regard this as some sort of eliteism... because they are missing the point and it isn't explained WHY? Its not really, its about being an enthusiast and getting the most out of your hardware and OS.... This is something the magazine could address.... I would be willing to write the articles etc.
  24. :D me too ! phhhhsssss (noise of me letting off steam) equals to HUH? Well it seemed from your first post.... and the truth is you pissed me off too by not acknowledging these questions.... largely the discouragement of people helping in the magazine concept which I found non-contructive... specifically You are welcome but the weight of academic opinion is not at least in video ALONE.... and like artic said its also dependent on the individual. But its also as I pointed out that we learn differently when we read than watching video or listening to tapes. An obvious example is pronounciation... you can read all the phoenetic representations you want but unless you actually hear the words being spoken you will never get the accent correct.... and this works in reverse as well. A simple example is math where some concepts can be explained neatly in math shorthand in a line but would take a 3 hour video to even scratch the surface vs a geometry problem where a graphic demonstration might explain in 10 seconds what is 20 pages of proof but onwards.... Its the first google link I found but the reasoin i used Braille is because I have a friend who specialises in teaching blind people. We had this discussion a long time ago with me saying how new technology could aid blind people learning and having it explained why it can't replace a method of reading... if you search the internet you will see many blind charities actively campainging for less audio books and more braille in libraries etc. They also disguard the majority of that information.... (over 90% of it is filtered out subconciously in NT people). Those people who filter outless information are often clinically not normal... the PC term is autism spectrum disorders (which I "suffer" from very mildly at the normal end of the spectrum) but most people subcounciosly disguard most of the visual information they get (and aural) ... if you know anyone who feels uncomfortable in crowds etc. this is often because they are unable to filter out enough information and what can occur is a total block in a semi-catonic state while the body tries to process and filter the deluge of information. However this leads into a second point not unrelated to your point about people reading less. One reason is the deluge of information available elsewhere.... People are getting thier news from the internet and have access to hundreds of cable channels but this is actually descreasing attention span and ability to learn details. Overall either the human race is getting more stupid incredibly quickly OR peope are learning less effectively than they did in the past and you can pick any period over the last 50 years. I'll use a UK example (sorry but its what I know) on education ... when I took my schooling (back in the 70's) my math at age 16 was woefully behind being able to follow the text books my father had from school.... and by that I mean not even close. Calculators were not common, in that generation most of my fathers mathemetitian colleages still used slide rules at work... (and these were working for the British Nuclear fuels) ... {I mention this because the typical answer would be "but we have calculators now} ... My brother is 2 years younger than I and it was noticable that at his age 16 exams he couldn't even do half of the paper I had taken 2 years before because the standard had been dropped so low... abd ghe wenbt oin and did a pre-univeristy math intensive prep (math, pure math and stats...) and only half way through this ws he doing some of the things we had done 2 yrs earlier .... and its become worse and worse... so that now 16 year olds aren't even learning basic calculus. This is I guess partly the pressure to get more people with certificates but also I bleive reflects the general learning ability of people in the "video culture" and partly the fact we have calculators even on our phones... When the audio cassette and phone were invented these were largelly heralded as the death of the wirtten word ... but it hasn't proven so... indeed the internet has come and expanded the written word considerably... and Wikipedia et al... are more accepted methods of finding out facts than watching a video ... Yeah like I say we were both pissed... they are actually quite nice for the intended purpose.... No it's not true. It was years ago and Linux is still not perfect and probably never will, but it's not just a geeks toy anymore. I'm not against CLI or giving in depths info. I'm against forcing anyone to learn it. Yeah the people who "refuse to read". Call them lazy idiots, treat them as enemies that will make the magazine popular.I admitted it and even you admitted it that we don't read magazines or any long texts in my case on the computer. I still have a CRT and I already spend too much time in front of it and I think I'm not the only one. But never mind write text only articles, link them tech manuals, make the readers learn no matter if they want to or not. I don't care, I don't think I will participate in this magazine. This is IMHO several issues.... 1/ I strongly beleive linux (or any OS) should be an informed choice. I'm not sure OS-X is for me... but I am sure its for lots of people... and way more suited to linux for people who don't want to understand how things work... or even just don't want ot meddle with their system... One of my best firneds a linux engineer uses OS-X at home because he doesn't want to mess about with "work" when he's at home... except for fun.... 2/ Noone is talking about forcing people to learn the CLI... I have a lot of old linux mags lying about... and nearly all of them have articles, tutorials etc. on different levels... One article on how to use Open Office and another on kernel module writing.... I just don't read the stuff aimed at too low a level for my interest.... Now for a mag I pay for this is one thing, people might justifyably think they don't wanna pay hard earned cash for a mag where only 30% of the content is at their level ?? but a FREE community magazine is a competely different thing (at least to me)....you can read the parts you like and most importantly you can progress up the levels ... and keep the old mags and go back and read the parts that were previously above your level.... 3/ The CLI will always be a part of linux by design.... in fact you can't not use it even if you don't realise it...because the GUI apps are all (with few exceptions) front ends to CLI apps... be this printing via ghostscript or burning a CD in k3B the GUI just generates the CLI.... and in general doesn't call libraries directly like Windows does. (and the ones that do are considered bad practice) because of the way linux (or *NIX) is designed... Its also a design quirk by its distributed development model that the GUI tools are never comprehensive because they are based on pre-existing CLI apps or modifying text files.... so in effect this means that sooner or later your hardware will be new or something and you do need to use the CLI... (as opposed to Windows where it just doesn't work at least in linux you can usually hack it to work BUT via the CLI.... So this is what I mean when I say its not "honest" to advertise linux as something you can use effectively without ever using the CLI.... Im more than happy for it to progress .. I just don't see how linux by design will ever be CLI free and support hardware and community development.... Again look at OS-X not so different underneath but because of the packaging around it (and excluding using the CLI and doing your own development) is limited by hardware... but that's a huge difference IMHO because Apple is a commerical company that makes most of the hardware and so its supported OR other companies make it Mac compatible.... and this is also why (or at least a major reason) so few companies support linux... to the same extent as even OS-X which has a similar market share.
  25. erm perhaps that is what i should have said.... Was the point.... Which quite simply is saying the idea of a magazine is crap... when the thread is about I put forward some ideas for a 21C magazine.... I admit not a "conventional" magazine but one using other media than a printed page or emulation of a printed page on screen. I acknowledged dexter has a point about people not reading them (all good intentions aside ...) I even said I was guilty of doing this... but This conversation keeps getting dragged back to the same thing... This discussion is about a magazine....some short tutorials with a specific audience are fine BUT they are not a magazine (perhaps they are but that should be discussed not magazines are crap...repeated again and again) AND the statements about text being dead and encouraging everyone not to do them and do video tutorials are simply negative and not contructive. Feel free to question "what is a magazine?".... that was something I wanted to bring up... and I see no reason a magazine in the 21C can't contain video and even video tutorials BUT that is a part of the magazine ...so this is going in circles based on the statement This is Dexters opinion.... he is welcome to it but how can we discuss a magazine when all he has to say is because it literally becomes (or became) How about XXXX No magazines are rubbish and noone has time to read... How about YYYY No magazines are rubbish and noone has time to read... etc. I tried several times to bring the topic back by gently pointing out that video is a limited medium. I tried using the example of braille ... and posted a link to a expert opinion... basically saying why spoken books cannot replace braille for learning... and I even used the example of shakespear to which Im told its irrelevant... The point Im trying to make along with emmanuel is you cannot simply replace text with video .. you can suppliment it but not replace it.... The example I used was Shakespears' plays and this is VERY RELEVANT... because these are plays. That is they were written to be READ OUT LOUD or acted ... yet anyone studying Shakespear even superficially will need to READ the play as well as seeing it... and a blind person studying Shakespear will equally want to READ it in Braille NOT only an audio book or even recording of the live play will replace this. Erm no its not and the article I posted explains why... I was polite enough to follow the links Dexter posted but obviously he didn't read this one... For those not following the link its because you learn differently and more deeply by reading... I could give 1001 examples.. like why the Open University publishes a lot of texts and course materials not just relying on BBC2 to broadcast its courses... but its going nowhere while the answer is "text is dead and video is the future" So far as I can see noone is against having video content but only Dexter thinks ONLY video content is relevant and that magazines are dead. This is then compounded by the assertion that you need a computer science degree or PHd in order to read... which is the answer to everytime I try and say "video can't cover everything effectively" or that it is not time efficient in everything. This is not simply my opinion... it is the method used by unoiversities the world over. No serious university is arguing to replace the texts with video tutorials. Erm sure but did you learn anything? The answer is probably a n00b did but did they learn it better or more efficiently than reading a illustrated text article? The weight of academic opinion in almost every field (perhaps video arts excepted) is you didn't... So the next question IMHO is does watching the video and then reading an accompanying article give a deeper/better understanding? It might... IMHO.... depending on subject matter and how you define a deeper or better understanding. So Im happy to discuss video in the context of a "magazine"... and made several attempts to steer this back but Im not happy to go along with the idea that video is the only way to go and for every other suggestion to be knocked as outdated/irrelevant or requiring a PHd ...and the whole repeating arguament where someone suggests something and Dexter pipes up and says "Video is the only way" is getting tired and distracting... I'm keen to continue the discussion about the magazine.... but not keep going back to how magazines are crap and a waste of time and if Dexter has nothing positive to say about the idea having voiced his opinion once it would be more contructive to not keep knocking everything anyone else contributes and start another thread about short video tutorials for windows users coming to Linux... and finally This is again missing the point.... according to Mandriva their basic Discovery say's beginners != dummies Specifically in this context it seems clear to me that Mandriva are saying exactly hat they say ... new linux users coming from another OS.... not dummies. As I pointed out (as did others) being a n00b to linux doesn't mean you are stupid or unable to read. It just means you are new to linux. Frankly I find the implications a little offensive ... I wouldn't but a book with "for dummies" in the title or an OS advertised as "for dummies" ... for beginners is not dummies, easy to use is not dummies. What this comes down to is level of interest not stupidity ! As Ix mentioned the other day regarding his phone... he hasn't bothered to put music on it.... I can understand exactly why.... I am not interested in mobile/cell phones except as a phone... come to that any phone ... I get my GF to do "advanced" stuff on my phone because I am not interested in them. Even my old office phone I used to ask my secretary for advanced functions... does this mean I or Ix are "dummies" ? No it means we are not interested in phones like we are in computers. The assertion a computer is merely a tool is incorrect ... for me a phone is a phone but for many its a interesting toy ... Linux is an OS written by geeks for geeks...that doesn't mean you need to be a rocket scientist or have a degree in CS.... it means you need a level of interest in the computer as more than a tool. Im not against people making Linux into a consumer tool/appliance (like a Tivo or router) but the support and learning is then up to them... here is an excellent consumer product http://www.smeserver.org/ but IMHO its not the same as a real distro... because its an appliance like Tivo... or a phone... Once again if you want an appliance (by which I mean you use it without any interest in how it works) then buy a Mac... Linux should be a choice ... and an informed one, its not for everyone Having said that I have provided linux to several complete n00bs one of whom never used a PC before... (yes they exist) but this is on my back... I have to take responsibility for them and any problems they might have. I have also told several people "buy an Apple" ... based on if they have ANY interest in the computer as anything more than an appliance. So the secretary and OO is down to the person providing Linux ..their company, their support dept and training dept etc. just as it is with windows and MS office... edits: Let me quickly illustrate WHY....a little acid test. As a mod if I called someone a beginner or a n000b in context you would have no problem ... (I expect) BUT if I call them a dummy or an idiot this is a personal attack... Hence the two are not the same.... one is offensive the other is a assessment of present ability (in this board in linux)
×
×
  • Create New...