Gowator

Strange to see everyone either for or against Mandrake in this respect. Its really just a case of what you do with it. Mandrake give you lots of optional extras so its bound to be less reliable than running a pure server with say NFS/Apache/Samba and no X. The difference in Mandrake and say Debian is unless you take the unstable Debian tree they don't give you anything to break it. Some examples: If I run Xine on my laptop which has a S3 twister graphics card with the default Xv it locks up completely, although I can telnet in and close it. StarOffice/OpenOffice did the same up to OO 1.1 unless i first set an ENVVAR! Then you have to consider if you are using a purevanilla system or did you add something (like css). As a server Mandrake is pretty reliable and the comment from Motts Yes they add patches to the vanilla kernel but all those patches are from the same source code. They don't reinvent the wheel my friend, they just modify the patch source code a bit so that it can be applied with other patches. " However when you start looking at the gaming/desktop stuff this is really no longer true. Take the xine example, this was causing a crash until I changed the video driver. This is actually in the .xine directory so theoretically a different user would still start xine with Xv. If I wanted to be certain I could remove the Xv driver but I havn't bothered. Certain releases are more or less stable than others and 9.1 is a bit of a pig with the 300MB of updates. These really should have made the box set, or at least most of them. RedHat 7.0 was just as bad or worse. It was the change in glibc and really stank. I used 7.1 beta as soon as it was available and that made a big difference. A beta version mpore stable than a boxed release. This really shows that lots of patches are different, I forget which vrsion of gcc was particularly bad but that itself caused lots of problems for distros that compiled using it. I'm actually pretty surprised about the uptimes quoted. I have always taken 'as long as I want it' to be as normal on a server. My servers have always run 24x7 once they become production and only get shut down for a new kernel or I move house or something. Finally, if you edit all your config files with vi - truly understand each line etc. you will have a stable server, 99.99% easily. If you use the DRAKCONF stuff I think not, especially in 9.1.

Artee, Yeah very good. I agree with Ixthusdan on the order of things but if it is going to be html as opposed to printed you can avail yourself of hyperlinking the last part at the beginning. I think you could be a bit stronger on the other OS comparison, particularly about the quote If things don't behave as you, as a novice Linux user, expect or would wish, that doesn't mean they are wrong unquote. You might explain that they may be used to a certain operating system doing something a certain way and therefore an alternative may seem not to be working the way they expect because that isn't the way the OS does it. This seems to be a common 'newbie' problem. quote just enter man:/[command] as a URL (link), unquote. Erm you seem to have hyperlinked this (by mistake?) but you might have to say where they type it. It depends how new a newbie they are I guess. That brings me to the final point. Perhaps state at the beginiing the level of newbie you are targetting? You seem to be getting quite into the writing so perhaps you will have other articles aimed at different levels. Other than that a good brief introduction ..... thumbs up.

Has anyone manged to get the full interface multilingual for OO or SO from an RPM install. I don't just mean dictionairies and stuff I mean the whole interface. I could do it by making the install then copying to each user directory I guess but its kinda sloppy a waste of space and (well generally bad). I do it with KWord all the time, I have different users for different languages .....

Theoretically firewire should be 400mb/sec. Technically its definately better but its more a copper extension of FCAL. Erm theoretically SCSI is better again, on a bang per buck$$$$$$$ That is a parallel technogoly will always be faster than a serial one at the same development cycle. Problem is USB 2.0 is what it needs unless I buy a supported firewire controller, Its good in a way my laptop also has a 1394 built in but its never been used, chicken and egg. I dont want to buy a device and not get it working.... It took me long enough to scrub windows completely out of my personal life and I aint going back to get firewire support.

Enough said Tyme.... Well, maybe check out linuxconf and ...

It should install as a https by default (shouldn't it) Perhaps you wrote the webmin config by accident whilst playing around? You didn't say if you were accessing via an Icon or command line.... Its set up as an as needed/called service (or mine is) so it doesn't run unless someone polls port 10000. Anyway, point is from the command line it actually tells me to set the BROWSER envvar. i.e. export BROSWER=mozilla If your accessing it from an icon perhaps its just not reporting back the message....? From a local session I just type webmin <enter> after the browser envvar is set.....

Sorry I started writing this before and lost my track! Since then ezroller and VeeDubb have really said it all. I'd used linux for ages but my new laptop last X-MAS (present to myself) had Win XP home. The biggest setback I had was watching DVD's .... The graphics support for the inbuilt card was lousy... I dual booted for ages and it really was a bad idea. I never quite bother fixing the niggles and then had to use windows for an occiasional thing. In the end I jumped in and blatted the whole NTFS partiion after copying off data etc. It really waas the best step... I concentrated getting the linmodem working, proper graphics support and I havn't missed it. Then I reversed the process and stuck a VMWARE win98 instance on for a couple of things I just couldn't live without. Your kinda stuck with the hardware since its a laptop but just get the fundamentals all working and go for it! Remember there isn't a single best answer for software, Linux is all about choice... Not only that but what you get is usually a front end to standard libraries not the monlithic type apps from MS. You could RIP MP3's using GRIP (my choice) but you don't have to.... Then you choose your encoder and .... its all about choice. See the discussion/poll on best office product. It depends what you want. KWord is quick has italian support etc etc. and I use it for small docs. If I want the full bloatware experience I use StarOffice/OpenOffice. This is better for other things..... Has anyone worked out how to get multilingual staroffice.... Including the menu's etc. I chose several on install for OO and only the last one from RPM worked. That is I couldn't start it up in the language of choice. I can change the spellchecker etc. but not the interface. ???? Anyway, whats really important is that what you leanr now will be carried froward into everything. Its not like windows where you can't see the cludges under the skin. This means as you learn one thing it is almost always reusuable and Linux is very logically laidout and open. Use the tools to configure it sure but try and go back to the files it writes and try and work em out. The whole point is the choice..... I do quite a lot just from the command line because its simpler/quicker/easier... but also because I come from a traditional UNIX background. You learn a hell of a lot that way..... Now I use the tools more and more (like the Drak wizards) but in the end the fine tuning is done by hand...... Get under the bonnet when you can, its like having a classic car that is beautiful to work on, especially if you are coming from windows which is like having a consumer injection model where the mechanic plugs it into the tuner and voila, its either fixed or scrap!

Ixthusdan: Yep USB 2.0 is pretty much needed. The device is a USB MM player with an internal 20GB disk. It's got backups/photos/MP# and it even plays DIVX (well if its simple AVI). USB 2.0 is one primary reason I bought it. Ive actually already rmmod'd the usb-uhci, (I have to do it all the time for vmware to remove the support for my bluetooth usb device. I let in autodetect and when I need to use it just rmmod it before starting VMWARE and Win98. ) Like emh points out ... its the USB support thats faulty and I got rid of Windows from my homea long time ago.... (except the VMWARE for VERY specific things). I can use it through USB 1.1 but its not really fully functional as it should be. Its not like a printer or synching a palm, were talking GB or data. All in all its a cool device, you can attach a card reader and back up your whole 256MB compact flash/MM in minutes. Same for a palm etc. The idea is to take it on holiday instead of a laptop and back up the camera/palm/phone (via palm) - watch movies onthe hotel TV (output provided SCART or Composite/NTSC or PAL). Take 5-10 GB of music with me and 5-10 GB of movies and ...... You can even rip your own movies direct from VHS/TV with a extra 50Euro connector or 100 euros for a camera/video which rips dirct to MPEG4. You can rip MP3 native, just from the microphone for voice notes or via the audio in.... Its like 500 euros ... extremely cool ... http://www.archos.com I just don't wanna resort to Windows to use it properly... If I had the money I'd get a MAC rather than do that!

Sorry, no kisses on this board after the percentage of females:males... By switching connectors do you mean unplugging the USB header connectors and routing the "USB 2.0 through? If thats what you meant then no.... I was just doing my support staff stoop, you know the one that means all your trousers have worn knees and your shoes get creases in from climbing under desks! I was connecting (on the BIG Box) directly to the USB2.0 card on the back. On the shuttle I was connecting directly to the 1.1/2.0 ports which go onto the header. Or do you mean just try swapping a couple over to make sure there are no conflicts.. Interestingly it seems to be some serial problem on the Shuttle. That is I originally had an infrared key/mouse pad (its meant to be an entertainment centre) but it inexplicably locked up and refused to boot even into bios .. After removing EVERYTHING down to mem/processor (which meant more heat-transfer compound) I finally had a brainwave about the serial stuff. The mouse on the Infrared pad goes trough a serial interface... switched it round for ps/2 ones and ho it worked... I must RTFM more on the mobo manual but its in French and tiring to read... actually its probably in the same sort of French as you get in English for a Taiwanese Mobo. Slightly off topic .. Doesn't it strike you as odd they can design some sh**hot mobo's but the manual reads like a badly dubbed movie?

I had exactly the same (nearly) , No Partition magic no other OS, completely new install and all. Only difference was I got Li 91 91 91 ! I know Squareball2 has it working but someone pls explain why!

Has anyone got USB2.0 working reliably in 9.1? Everything locks up completely, that is I can't even ping the machine. I'm connecting a Archos MM which is a USB mass storage device and it works fine under USB1.1. This is using a shuttle .... On my other machine I got a Belkin usb2.0 card. (Its also got a AHA2940 UW scsi controller which might interfere). The mobo has built in usb1.1 which I initially disabled but its doing the same thing and just locking up. Once it does it Its power button time. Any suggestions....

This really is bad, and to think I was one of the sceptics about what SCO could do. You guys are actually all right on the moral rights but unfortunately that doesn't seem to have any bearing on M$ who decide their own right and wrong. If M$ were to embrace linux then thats one thing, IBM haven't always been the nicest company around but they have seen the light and more or less made a U turn. Remember, MS make their own rules and there own definitions to the courts becuase they are 'the only ones qualified to do so'. Of course the thread of MS porting there own apps to linux might be right but it doesn't help. Companies thinking of moving to linux might take the easy alternative ... that is the MS backed version that will run their legacy apps (so long as they are M$ presumably). In the end they will add their own restrictive non GPL'd protocols and API that only works for SCO_M$ and they have completely eradicated 'the cancer' as they refer to GPL. Linux becomes MS-Linux first and then the restrictions start. The Apple analogy was very spot on. Linux isn't just about linux its about the right to GPL'd source and open competition where companies decide a market lies and open development where companies don't see a commercial product. Overall its the spirit that counts, in a way it doesn't matter what its called, linux is just the last man standing on the PC arena (OK not quite) and represents a choice; a choice M$ fundamantally sees as a bad thing. The big question is: Was this a set-up from the beginning with M$ involved OR are they jujst responding to a please buy us out type plea from SCO?

i actually tried just running konqueror as root by just starting it from a root console (after Xhost etc.) I got the same problem. I took out the Mdk 9.1 disk last night and stuck the Mdk 9.0 in instead. The box in question becuase its a shuttle. Looks cool. Ive given up on Mkd9.1 until I can get the patches which means sorting aout a phone .. dah dah dah. The box's purpose in life is a MM centre providing my TV, MP3 and DVD pleasure so I'll just leave it as 9.0 until ...? (The USB2.0 seems to be a hw problem, a conflict with the NIC. I remember when it was working in 9.0 I had intermittent problems with the NIC! I need to rtfm on the Mobo I think. ) The module is being loaded but its the only USB2.0 device I have so its hard to tell if its the archos or the module .... Thx again...

I used a mount /dev/sda /mnt/removeable -o user, rw The mount from the desktop (automatically generated with the hotplug) is completely weird. Another problem is its working on USB 1.1 only, even though I had 2.0 working in the old 9.0. The problem is its all a bit fiddly inside the shuttle, I have to take out the TV card and the Matrox to switch drives over. I put Mdk 9.1 completely clean onto a different drive! The Cd's are so shot at that I think Ill have to download them andcreate my own, dissapointing since I bought the boxset of expert ;-) Its a shame but Im finally going to have to bite the bullet and get a phone line. France telecom refuse to tell me if I can get broadband without first getting a line. I think its 90% certain but I have to PAY a years rental first!!!! I'm going to post this onto a seperate board but if anyone knows .... let me know!

OK, this is meant to be serious rather than a slagging match. I'm seriously thinking of trying a debian disto (which one?) Its a big step for me because I'm kinda busy at the moment and don't have as much time as I used to. Ive only ever used RH based distros and so I'll need to invest considerable time over relearning some stuff. I though APT packaging was more rigid than RPM's in terms of dependencies. Is this true or not? I want something I don't need a constant Internet connection to install something and the most frustrating part with the RPM's is the dependency tree, especially in MMedia stuff. If I download a set of rpm's at work, stick em on CD to go back to hotel then find dependencies I can get pissed. Then I come in, find the packages, burn em on CD and then get home to find that they to have dependencies. So, informed opinion (by which I mean if you havn't tried a debian distro then say so pls)

I must admit I thought this was much of a storm in a teacup but tyme and zero0w have got me worried now. Its difficult to think MS aren't somehow involved. Perhaps they have finally decided to make it a real OS and theyre copying the apple route of using a preexisting OS as a base. Like using SCO instead of BSD. If the M$ $ollars are backing this then its probably more serious than just SCO trying to grab some cheap bucks. Maybe they have backed it but haven't any intention of doing anything but wrecking Linux. Now IBM and Oracle are firm supporters and committed its probably less serious than say two years ago but still worrying. I'd think the most urgent thing for the linux community to find out is if M$ are involved or not. Whoever the sources of the Halloween documents are if your reading this and know something please let that nice Mr. Raymond in on it. As is detailed in the Halloweeen Docs M$ decided throwing FUD at linux was a lost cause because it made them more unpopular. Perhaps this is a way to sidestep all that and throw some sand in the gas tank whilst making it look like someone else is doing it Lets face it they can hardly be squeeky clean over DOS and CP/M so better to get someone else to do it. I used to be mildly anti M$, basically when you look at it technically you have to laugh but their subversive tactics have got worse over the years. Other than FUD I don't know what this would achieve. Sueing the distro makers is that possible? Like if I was a publisher and a writer submitted a book which had some copyright violation hidden in page 256 of 1024 and it was really subtle like someone says <<insert an obscure line here from your favorite 20 year old book>> then would you be liable. Its the same sort of thing as the code becuase there are only so many ways you can say something. (Ill bet that has been printed somewhere). Sue the devlopers? Like who, everyone involved in writing ANY part of Linux or just the kernel? What do they realistically hope to achive themselves, is there anything. The reason I ask is if they are paying lawyers fees on a lost cuase then its obviously for hidden motives. If they could realstically hope to get some decent amount out of it then maybe its less sinister. Is anyone a lawyer ... (go on admit it, you'll probably be banned from the group or something but go on anyway :wink: p.s. just joking)

Hey, don't rush the guy. He has lots of options and you can do the Oroboro effect stuff with or without the docker. Aqua is dead cool etc. but unless he gets proper graphics support instead of using the VESA driver its going to be painful. Ive had pretty good results with Mosfet and went thru the whole pain of moving the stuff to fix it for Mandrake before i discovered plf had done it all for me. (Thanks guys) Don't forget this guy comes from a Windows world where choice is limited by the vendor. Now, Ive gotta go and check out the link!!! I just DID..... WAY COOL. drool .......

Actually there is a way to make it look like OS-X. It's slightly fiddly unless you use the PLF stuff but it is possible. But .... You NEED your graphics card properly supported to do it. Otherwise your flyout menu's and stuff all go screwy. Seriously follow bvc's advice and get it set up properly. I started out with my first linux machine when there was very little software. I installed, played, installed X (later) and thought neat -well laid out OS but no apps. That was a long time ago, now you can do LOADS ... Even if you keep your windows machine you might want to play music, rip a CD or whatever on the other. A few years ago, after my initial linux trial I got another linux machine. I started out with 5-6 windows machines, one Linux and one Solaris 7. Now I only have Linux. You wouldn't believe the difference in 5 years. Windows was Windows 98 and Linux out of the box was nothing compared to today. 7 years and an even bigger difference. Linux has become more usable so quickly its almost impossible to believe looking back now. I mean look at where Windows has gone from Win95 to today. Now imagine what Linux was like to a user. Hardly any apps, hardly any device support you had to practically use 5 year old stuff to be sure it was supported. Today Linux beats windows to new drivers, look at bluetooth! U are so lucky to have come along now, we should all be pissed at you for having it so easy but were all Linux users so instead we just try and help you and make U feel welcome! The more you get to use Linux and understand it the more you'll laugh at Windows (seriously). Good luck, enjoy yourself and learn!

I've got an experimental 9.1 up. The USB2 support used to work in 9.0 but its misconfigured so Im going to have to do it manually. Easiest way is just get the autodetected settings from 9.0 on the other disk. (By misconfigured it just hangs DISKDRAKE or Mandrake control centre wehn booting. But intriguing: I mounted by USB archos multimedia and firstly I got a hang...using the new automount on desktop. OK back to console and mount it. Then back to konqueror and look at it. Its empty. Ooops, its a Fat16 FS so i thought problem with the module. Back to console. Nope I can cd into it ls and copy files but Konqueror is STILL blank. Refresh. up and down, everything Ican think of and still blank..... Suggestions .....

Exactly: thats why compiling your display into the Kernel makes for a bad thing! Did anyone think to tell Microsoft this??? :wink:

Yeah, I agree with Adrianovaroli especially. The Gartner group kinda started off good and gradually started slanting their market at Finance managers rather than IT professionals. Its like the classic CISCO story (nothing against them) but they basically set out dominating the market with providing an IT solution then realised three components are needed for a real big sale (like a corporite WAN). You need the IT backing (certainly) but the backing of the finance Director and General Manager is critical. The CISCO stuff is OK technically but nothing special, they invested a lot in IOS and training which keeps techies in jobs but their real grainwave was providing financing packages and corporate presentations. Gartner is aiming at the same group. When someone pays em to make a comment they play the tune they want. Its like being a successful busker or DJ. If you play the music you like you aren't doing what you were payed to do. You have to alter this to the taste of the audience OR they will just pay someone else to comment. You can try and do this and keep your integrity and nearly pull it off. Some people are above all this like Alan Cox or Linus himself but its not the normal way of the world. Anyone who hasn't read the Halloween stuff really should. You should be scared; very scared! Also try the other writings of Eric S. Raymond... The most popular is 'The Cathedral and the Bazar' but the other stuff is good too. (arTee) Once you read these you will realise that Microsoft sending spys to learn linux isn't important compared to the deliberate and maliceous corrupting of open standards by Microsft, soley to gain control over them and exclude other options. Neither is a small report by Gartner. Windows 2003 Server faster than Samba? Again, it would be sad if it wasn't. SAMBA is great but the real point, is Win2003 Server faster than NFS3. SAMBA is just a workaround to allow people with 'legacy' OS's like windows to read a proper file system. That SAMBA did this faster and better than a Windows server would be astonishing were it not for the intrinsic limitations of windows in the first place. I have an old box at work that reads at 100MB/sec and writes at 50. Its pretty old now and I could double the performance by upgrading to SCSI III and making a deeper stripe. (Running SW 0+1) Its also a real old box, just an old SUN E450, nothing special. Samba access is limited ONLY by the 100MB network the Windows PC's are on .... It would be pointless for it to go faster. Show me a Win2003 server box and I'll show you it faster through Linux and NFS. But : The point is its not a pissing contest on who's got the biggest ****. Like DragonMage says whats the point of having a server with no apps. What if Microsoft have a party and nobody comes .... Well theyve been doing that for years! So what matters is let me see a web server, with a database (like apart from personal home pages I'm with DragonMage on that). Actually if were talking Databases show me an MSWin anything SQLServer that can come close to oracle running on a Linux cluster. These reports are for corporate IT managers and what corporate IT managers want to run is MS Office. (GENERALLY DON"T FLARE ME IF YOUR SMARTER THAN THEM). These are the same people giving me two hours to play on the web today (and every day) becuase my Windows machine is incapable of anything else when the antivirus runs. (This is for real) and they do this becuase an exchange server is cheaper for the company than (insert any UNIX/Linux mail prgram here). God I rambled off topic ... Ill stop now.

I think we need to define a crash ... Lvl 0) process/app hangs but can be killed (not really a crash) Lvl 1) X server freezes but CTRL+ALT+BACKSPACE and or switch tty works and recoverable Lvl 2A) X server crashes, keyboard input locked and external admin needed via ssh or webmin whatever. Lvl 2B) Services will not stop, orderly shutdown impossible, (cannot unmount dah dah or a process won't die.) Lvl 3) Network services denied (ssh, telnet etc.) but network still up (can be pinged) Lvl 4) Mystery power button needed, no response from ping, keyboard, ANYTHING - Can't access it from local therefore don't know why and can't access it remotely therefore don't know why. COMMENTS (I started at zero cos you can't call it a crash) (2A and 2B are dissimilar reasons but the result is the same, you can theoretically fix it from another machine)

earsh0t: Don't worry too much about understanding the details, they look horribly complicated but really aren't. They all come in time! Two things you need to know. 1) When A (BSD variant) UNIX box is started it follows 5 seperate stages which incrementally add services (background programs) 1) Single user mode (think like DOS if you remember that) 2) Networking, some other critical services MULTIUSER 3) Basically everything else that isn't X related. 4) Not really used 5) Multiuser, graphic X server OK when you boot to linux -3 this puts you into Run Level 3 (see its really logical once you get some basic differences between Win and UNIX) This is a bit like safemode with Text in Win. You can still manually start the X server, thats what your doing. Linux is geting pretty good with XFree so what used to be a manual process is now less so (usually). When you go to Run Level 5 it starts a login manager (these are called xdm, kdm,gdm etc) what you need to know is this for security and it gives a login screen which puts a user direct into X. CTRL+ALT F1, F2 etc bring you to different logical terminals, called tty and the defualt graphic one is tty7 therefore CTRL+ALT+F7 takes you to X windows display if its running. If you don't change the options CTRL+ALT+BACKSPC will kill the X server. If xdm,kd, etc are running this takes you back to a graphical login. If something isn't working then this can be an endless loop. When you go to runlevel 5 xdm etc starts so if your X display is shaky your stuck. If this happens go to tty1 (CTRL+ALT+1) and login as root. If you type init 3 <ENTER> it will take you into run level 3 which stops the display manager. If you type startx or startkde from Run level 3 then CTRL+ALT+BACKSPACE drops you back to the prompt. This is useful because it's easier to test different config's, if you get the monitor timings wrong for instance you wanna kill X ASAP in order not to risk damage to your monitor. All the applications people (including me) have quoted write a file called XF86Config-4 in a directory /etc/X11/. This is the beatiful simplicity of UNIX and Linux compared to some other OS's. In the old days we edited this file by hand but now several different automatic and graphic ways are possible. XFDrake is one option. xf86cfg (if you installed it is another) XF86Config (is an old text based one but can write a decent starter file with VESA etc to get you started. ) If one doesn't work (or locks up) then you can try a different one or select manual options. This isn't Mandrake or Linux or XFree's fault its becuase some graphics card manafacturers won't give away the documentation for their cards. Sometimes the manufacturer will provide a special utility for thier cards. These can be quite convenient: Purists might not like em becuase they are not usually opensource but you have time to understand the importance of that later :-) Back to my first line. Don't worry, it looks complicated but it isn't but you need to learn one bit at a time. Its really worth looking at the files it generates but don't expect to understand everything all at once. If you understand a little it tends to grow because underneath the bonnet is a very logical and well laid out system that understanding one part gives understanding in another. I'm not a linux expert by any means but I've worked with UNIX for years. The thing that is good is becuase everything is open I can transfer my experience. Good luck, take bvc's advice and get your grapohic support working properly. VESA is a standard fallback mode built into graphics cards above the basic VGA level, its like VGA+. Its not optimised and its really for compatibility (always a good thing). Try and understand the run levels thing and the fact that programs running in the background start at different ones. RunLevel 3 is best for testing your Xserver.

I agree with Ixthusdan over the <1 old 8.2 server with celeron 533 in a strange compaq box. 24*7* (days since I moved) Erm, never but I could make it. I just cant afford to. Laptop (Amilo D), Not since I put 9.0 over 9.0 beta. Its usually on. Server Athalon 1400 - With NVIDIA - hasn't not crashed since I put on 9.1, prior to that uptime was only interupted when I installed 9.0 over 8.2. Actually had a problem with XawTV for a while which locked the whole thing up, diaplay was there but everything else was down, not even replying to a ping. Also autofs caused some rpblems (but only on shutdown through not unmounting /net) once I got rid of this it was fine but is a disordered shutdown a crash? Toy: Shuttle with Duron 1300. As with above, this time I put a spare disk in and UNPLUGGED the other. P100 (seriously) 256MB RAM in an old Dell Box. Well its actually unplugged now but if I remember it had Mdk 8.1 and I don't remember it ever crashing. Do virtual machines count (VMWARE?) Of course the VMWARE Win98 is up and down like a yoyo, Lindows is stable even though its running as root? and old Lycoris is stable too.

This should thow you back to Run level 3. You should be back at where you typed startx except all the messages were sent to your console. Hopefully this will include the error. The easiest way for someone unfamiliar to configure X is from inside X so thats a bit of a pain. Loads of stuff on the screen but the last part should say something relevant. If it doesn't try this: cp /etc/X11/XF86Config-4 /etc/X11/XF86Config.bak Now try XFRee86 --configure (I think Im sat in front of a windows machine at work) It should come back with a message telling you its put a new XF86Config file in your home directory. Now try and follow the instructions with the path to the file. If XStarts you can try xf86cfg or the DRAKE tool to tune it a bit. Theres also a file in /var/log/XF86 .. 0.log which lists your startup if the important bit goes off screen. Its pretty long .. If you can post this someone (not me cos Im going out) should be able to help ya.