hey! i was using kopete on my linux (mandrake 9.1) for my msn messenger but since yesterdya it doesn't work anymore!! i think is has something to do with the protocol changing
http://www.mandrakeusers.org/viewtopic.php...light=messenger
does anyone know what i can do???

http://gaim.sourceforge.net

Try updating to the latest version of Kopete my copy worked this morning.

Quick update on last post, I'm using 0.7.1 and still seems to work.

This is a real dilemna
How to convince your friends .....

Yikes I tried a wine install of the new messenger last night and ....
UUUGGGHGHHHH
It seems MS have put some effort into preventing it working....

The bottom line seems to be that they will keep switching protocols until they have their MSN Messenger base.

Its really a shame Yahoo is full of freaks and perverts becuase this provides your WinBlows friends an acceptable alternative...

Some of the other options are just too geeky to convert your diehard technophobe friends!!!

What really needs to be done is a easy way to convert them away. Carrying on using MSN is just continuing the problem.

gaim 0.70 works fine. As long as I never have to pay for using MSN - I have no moral problem with it at all...

:?
quite a problem... too many friends with a lot more friends who all use MSN, i could try to convert them to yahoo messenger but it won't be easy!
i'll try to download the GAIM thing.
thanx everyone and if you have any more ideas or suggestions, please let me know!!

Well,
it depends whether you wanna have a Microsoft passport.

Do you trust MS ????

If you use a closed source app like MSN messenger then you don't know what other information it is giving MS over their protocol. When you use it you open a TWO way communication with them. No firewall will protect you. lil gorse bush penguin has a FULLY legal copy of windows.... original CD etc. however I couldn't find the serial number...so it doesn't look legal. hmmm
(Honest its 100% legit, I just lost my serial no when I gave her the CD (unused full copy)so I hacked it using nothing more sinister than microsofts own tool, regedit)
Personally I wouldn't want MS to come round knocking at my door and then have to prove it was a legal version....
Meanwhile they can freeze your passport accounts and they already know your bank details etc. if you ever typed them in wondows.

I don't believe MS are above perverting the law and pretending they have evidence to make a point. While they use the full weight of the law to make life as uncomfortable as possible for you by freezing your bank accounts etc. its up to YOU to prove your innocence.

Anyone at UNI is particualrly at risk. MS seem to delight in attacking poor students. Its economically viable to make a raid on a university, get the relevant court authorisation etc. and go in with law representatives. They get a large cluster of potientials all in once place.

Legally you are innocent until proven guilty but who cares when your bank account is frozen etc....
Since your both in the UK i'll give an example of what they could do.
They find some of YOUR own recordings on your disk.
When you agreed tothe EULA you allowed MS to delete or otherwise take action if they find 'potentially' copyrighted material on your PC. If your using XP they can just shutdown your PC... if your using 98 its more difficult... but hardly impossible..
Meanwhile they make use of a county court injunction against you.
They need to declare you owe them >GBP 150 or something in that region. As soon as the papers are served your accounts will be blocked!!! This is perverting the law becuase the county court injunction system is meant for you and me to be able to take action on corporations... not the other way round. I have actually used one against Cheshire County Council. It scared the SH$T out of them....

The point is you don't NEED to be guilty of anything.... they just need to suspect you are!!! As I said students represent an easy target. Like 12 year old girls for the RIAA people. However students are clustered together... that means they are an easy target.

Also you can be guilty without your concent:
Say someone sends you an illegal MP3 OVER messenger. Its misnamed, it claims to be their own work but once you open it you find its an illegal copy. Microsoft has just tracked this transaction.... and its looking for people to be made examples of.
You delete it.... but its to late... the millisecond its on your PC YOU ARE GUILTY.

UK law in particular does not accept ignorance as a means of defense.
Lord Hume actually started the whole 'ignorance of the law is no defense' lark off. But this is extended to receiving stolen property even if you don't know its stolen.

By continuing to encourage your friends to use it you are also exposing them.

Just something to think about.... Im not trying to have a go at you particulary. I know you have to use windows for your recording so Im not judging you on that

I understand the point your trying to make, but I don't think its quite that simple. The Misuse of Computers Act and the Data Protection gives you quite a lot of protection. MS (or anyone else) would be treading on very thin ice if they were to rummage around your hard drive, even if EULA had technically given them permission. Also a report I read not long ago (think it was theregister.co.uk) showed that a lot of the MS EULA isn't even enforcable under UK law. But I still don't trust MS, which is why I use Kopete for talking to people on MSN.

I know a lot of what they do is questionable but they know YOU can't afford to test it in court against them.

They specifically know students can't afford to do it!

I just don't trust them with my account details or anything else.

For one thing trust is earned, not a given.

Everything I see of MS makes me mistrust them more.

I intrinsically distrust MS.... everything they do seems to be based on misleading...even the EULA is written and presented so noone will read it!!!

When the law doesn't work for them they ignore it and buy their way out later. When it suits them they use it. But overall they just don't conduct business in a honest way.

I just don't trust what MSN messenger might send.
They are just the sort of company to harvest the data and then say it was a bug and shouldn't have been sending any letter with the word account in it direct to them.

They also seem to have a 'real world gap'
Remember when Bill promised every third world villiage a computer....
All the better to entrap them....while giving them internet access
It didn't occur to him that most third world villiages would be happier if they got clean water or electricity or a phone.

I strongly suspect Bill has his eyes set on students....
They are tomorrows clients ... and I get the idea he wants to make them think like him!!! If that involves prosecuting a few I doubt it will make him loose any sleep if he ruins someones life and then turns out their MP3's weren't illegal.

Imagine running XP and having your PC shutdown the night before you print out your thesis.

The implication is you must have been doing something wrong.... A clean company like MS wouldn't do this unless you were !!

Of course you can sue their ass retrospectively.... but that isn't going to help. Microsoft are already deleting linux from XBOXes ...remotely via the XBOX live. Check out the story at

http://xbox-linux.sourceforge.net/docs/rem...motedelete.html

This is VERY ILLEGAL. They also collect data (see the bottom part - which I may have had a little hand in)
THIS IS ILLEGAL in Germany (see links) and the UK and France. (to my knowledge)
This isn't slightly illegal or questionable ITS beyond question.
But MS continue to do it!!!!

And I predict..... when it comes to court they will hold up their hands and say, hey sorry it was a bug in the code.
But right now....they are aware, they continue and they know its illegal.

We discussed the niceties of filesharing on here and I proud to say that as a group our rsepect for the law is way above MS.
My opinion is that MS see the law as a tool. They don't have any respect for it, its there to be manipulated...


So lets say I go to a paper and say, hey MS deleted my data.
Outside of a few people who will not immediately think, its your own fault for trying to run linux on an XBOX.
Microsoft wouldn't be deleting this data if this wasn't illegal.
Of course Im doing NOTHING illegal they are but public opinion would be the other way round. Becuase MS OWNS public opinion.

Why not all start using Jabber instead. Jabber is so cool and there are a lot of Windows and Linux clients out there.

The question remains though how to get your MSN friends to use it!!!

Cool idea, use the send file thing to send them the windows version !!!

keep the install avaialble on your disk and then you can just send them it.

Gowator... do you have to take everything so seriously? i know how evil microsoft is but you can't spend your whole life being completely paranoid!!
about the whole chat thing, i'll try to talk to my people about yahoo instead as an altenative and if all else fail i'll be back to ask more details on how to get GAIM!!

Being paranoid saved my data, more times than once

Did you follw think link ???

What I'm pointing out is this is a documented case of Microsoft Illegally stealing AND deleting data. It happens to be one I knew about :wink:

It was pointed out that microsoft would be in dubious legal territory if they tried to actually enforce the EULA in Europe, as indeed they are.

What I'm pointig out is Microsoft doesn't really seem to care!

I'm expect Bills sitting there saying "well they deserve it for trying to use the XBOX in a way that doesn't make ME money" or perhaps he rationalises it by thinking he's a US citizen and doesn't need to follow laws in other countries where his product is sold.

I honestly don't know ....I can only wonder what he thinks!

However, what I do know is last year when they brought in Licensing VI where you can only lease software several large companies complained this was illegal. They had already bought the software.

Yet, Microsofts response was to pull a joker from their sleeve and then inform the companies that their technical support contracts would only be available under LICENSING VI.... in other words security patches etc. that companies who run Microsoft need in order not to be hacked every day. Somewhat ironically MS moved their servers onto linux ?

This was paramount to blackmail..... MS were implying hey yeah you bought a product but its so bad your business will grind to a halt without our support. More importantly YOU are the one who said to use MicroSoft in the first place so its YOUR job on the line.

Lots of the IT managers were a bit shocked, they knew MS wasn't a particularly nice company but they knew to protect the business decision makers (a MS term) who actually bought and recommended their software. In the end they were victims of thinking that MS was going to look after them. That it wouldn't bite the hand that feeds them....

If this sounds to high and flighty for someone using windows at home then what Im pointing out is the fact that those who use passport and messenger and hotmail are putting themselves into the same situation.
If half the worlds IT managers didn't see it coming then your average MS home user isn't likely to anyway.

Hotmail encourages you to subscribe to various other things. Passport encourages you to invest your money in a system that microsoft control your access to. When you install the new messenger you agree to pay whatever MS demands for the continuation of service. What many fail to realise is this means that if you don't then your valuable email and netphone subscription will be locked away from you until you do.

Mircosoft has a particular business model... it appears to be based on a street drug pusher model. First they give free samples ... then they let you have it cheap BUT once your hooked .... they reel you in.

Every microsoft service you subscribe to locks you in further. If (when) MS decide to reel in their nets the more you have to loose the harder to break free.

Todays society is based on data. Its the universal unit of currency.
Without access to our account numbers or our telephone memory we are lost.

In itself this isn't a good thing or a bad thing ... it just is.
However seeking to exploit this is bad and allowing yourself to be exploited is bad.

The current attitude is it won't happen to me.
Thats what everyone says before they reformat a drive by mistake and realise they have no backup.

Is taking a backup paranoid???

Using messenger isn't bad in itself although you might do well to think about what information microsoft can take from you while your doing it.

When you upload a file it allows you to search through your disk.
What this means is that the connection you are making can search through your disk. Its like a pipeline from your PC to the person you are chatting with STRAIGHT through MS central.

Now if you accept that Michael Steil is telling the truth (as I do) (or AOL or any of the other legal references on the same page added by a lawyer) then MS doesn't think twice about taking data from your disk.

the question remains what will the do with it.... personally, I backup my data ...

:wink:

I read that link about XBox linux being removed without permission.

At first I felt
:shock: :shock: :shock: :shock: :shock:

Then
<hate>

MICROSOFT YOU FSCKING BASTARDS
</hate>

Now back to my normal levels of anti-microsoft anger.

James


WHOA <<< 1111 posts

after a lot of console typing and frustration i managed to get GAIM working and all is back to normal!! can talk to my MSN buddies ( ) without agreeing to any of Bill Gates twisted contracts!!
thanks everyone!

Hmmmm... I am just a n00b - but I was a super dedicated (at least I thought) MS WinXP user for a few years (still have to use it for multitrack audio and a few apps like MM Studio MX). For me, it ran stable, quick... pretty solid all around - but the biggest reason I recently switched to Linux was... well... lots of reasons. Among them being privacy - it's like MS coming into your house while your sleeping just to see what you've got. AND YOU HAVE TO LET THEM if you want to protect your system with the latest updates (which are also just new ways to be monitored as well). I'm certainly not paranoid about it, I just do not like it.

Supposedly, as of Oct 15th - there was a new protocol change with MSN Messenger wasn't there? My Gaim .70 still seems to work fine though.

It's funny how MS is trying to rub out every aspect of Linux - thus wiping out the possibility of freedom of choice. For this reason alone - I make every ATTEMPT to purchase a Linux product that I use or make a donation if I can (I even made a small donation to this board this morning - this board has saved my ass more than once and would reallllllly enjoy that it would stick around).

Other reasons I've switched - I am tired of having to constently worry about virus', expense (though I buy Linux products when I can, there is still a HUGE difference), even better stability, and I was tired of MS's candy assed kindergarten interfaces.

On a final note - I try to turn all of my friends and family on to Linux - it is FFFFAAAARRRR superior to MS - especially in terms of home use, but I think you really have to be a computer lover to want to use it - generally, everyone I know is far too lazy to try something new. It was enough of a pain to get my Mother to take on my MSN subscription (because I was switching to Linux) than to introduce her to an OS where everything is at your finger tips. But hey, if you want to follow the other cattle to the cliff... enjoy.

PS - I think this was my first contribution to the board where I wasn't asking for help. WOW.

You might want to check this site out:

http://www.linux-sound.org

(I use my Linux for multi-track audio)