So in essence this means I was correct in pointing out all along that linux is 'sometimes' like a centipede with all its feet moving , yet sometimes tripping because some feet trip and cause a ripple effect in the body ?

This is not so much I told you so linux,- but more a hearkening to hopefully do something about it someday

Windows never has these problems ( and virus are dealt with now better by windows defender blah blah ) , and that is because its ONE BASE doesn't have to worry about it.

I truly hope Mandriva gets itself out of its current slump as IMHO it deserves it bigtime and let me say why I think so:

1) urpmX- I love, and have always loved this fine tool as rarely did it ever fail me ( when I was using mandrake 9.2 I think it was which I used for like 6 months or so and enjoyed it alot )

2) Decent community where even minorities ( I mean every kind btw ) aren't treated as pariah's.

3) Nicely working rpm install via web when others distros sometimes failed this usually just worked. ( suse was ok too but rh NOT ... )

4) Similar to suse, as nice well rounded control panel ( minus this one agregious issue while certainly not a showstopper clearly annoying etc. )

5) This is new as it never used to be so BUT,,,I want to congratulate Mandriva immensely for providing out of box the nvidia driver ( dont use ati atm so some ati user can speak to those ) which can only give users the same enjoyable visual experience that aero provides windows users,- and the fact that browser plugins ( except flash and I dont get that one at all BUT anyway..) most of which work fine and thats great because many users would have no idea how to 'get' them without a gentle nudge after install about it so kudos mandriva ( I guess you can do this because your based in France where patents dont exist in law ? )

I can't think of other atm but those are good ones.

I hope mandriva continues to do well in linux but atm I'm not sure I trust it as when obvious things like this go unnoticed it makes me wonder alot about mandriva's QA. That is important to people espeically those like me that use their computers for very important things where its data must be kept safe and where reliability is paramount.

I could stay and hope its fixed along with any other nagging things , but honestly I'm not sure how I feel about it atm....im definitely 'not' trying to be mean/a-flamer/a-jerk or anything I simply relate exactly how and why I feel as I do right at this moment as I love linux and wish it to succede; because it deserves to and the reason is because it gives a road down which to travel on for those that not only look for a tad more safety, but a safe heaven from the throws of monetary imprisonment that M$ forces upon them right now. I know that many versions of mandriva are not free and that if it were the company per se could not make it ( unless they sold only 'suppport' etc.etc. similar to what redhat does with rhel [ rhel isn't free but offers support directly , yet rhel is free via like scientific linux though no commercial support per se] ) but honestly I wonder if I"d have had the same experience with MCC if I had been using discovery or powerpack, though I'll never know as I dont have the bucks to try those.

I dont know how reliable this report is, but if true this is why we need to do better ,- and IMO as a 'group' unite and stop this distro war/WM war nonsense:

http://www.w3counter.com/globalstats.php?date=2007-05-20

cheers
nl

Not sure about the "slump" that you see, and I strongly disagree that we should be using Microsoft as any kind of measure for performance.

Adam Williamson point out in this article:

http://distrowatch.com/weekly.php?issue=20070618#feature

that overall QA was lacking for a bit and its clear from my own use of mandriva that indeed Id call that a slump. The slump though is not over as even the current spring product is a bit buggy as loaded the livecd spring gnome one cd you get warnings out of the gate that cups can't start. Did no one notice this during testing ? ( which leads me to comment on the fact that there are way to many distros atm, and if we had but a 'few' only ( similar to windows2000, vista, xp blah blah ) then imo linux would have alot more QA going into it cause more people would be focused on that one base and bugs would be filed centrally and all the linux raw talent would go all into one location; and as I have stated earlier that is one of the reasons windows is so popular as its QA on release's is superb . We can agree windows has tons of paid devs working on things ( thousands ) but they also progress as noted above due to a centralized system instead of fragemented by hundred or more.

I have seen this sorta slump if you willl in every single linux distro from ubuntu ( remember their nvidia and ati problems etc.) to fedora ( their horridly slow yum system along with a fiasco on release of fedora core 7 ) to freespire ( is to linspire what fedora is to rhel so sure its not going to be the MOST stable thing around ) to opensuse which clearly had nasty issues with its package management for sometime. The key here is that QA just doesn't seem to be terribly important to linux,- whereas instead the importance seems to be release early and often and well we can see where that gets us can't we and I think stuck with a impression from supposed windows converts that linux aint ready which clearly shows up in market share values and also from friends I talk to that think using linux is foolhardy at best ( not my view obviously ). I also note that the resolution chosen for the livecd anyway is really low compared to what my monitor can handle and I wish that would be addressed as ubuntu and frankly even fedora does that just fine with 1600x1200 out of the gate.

I referenced M$ because while its not a free OS and is virus prone ( well XP anyway no idea about vista since I can't run it due to having ONLY one gig of ram LOL ) its clear that its not marred by any of these QA issues and honestly while there is alot of FUD out there about stability thats just flat wrong. I have used M$ the last several months and have seen next to zero crashing at all and certainly no hourglass issues

I could offer many more areas that indicate inferior QA not only in mandriva but all distros but I dont want to be labled a spammer so Ill not go there,- but I guarantee you they exist

You asked and there is my opinion on that matter and if Im seen as a spammer then fine I can handle it I have broad shoulders, but those are MY opinions whether seen bad or not.

I wish I could stick with mandriva as I do g reatly admire the addition of nvidia drivers and codecs out of the box ( I guess they get around it by being headquartered in France ?? ) but this cups thing on startup of livecd anyway is annoying and its the only livecd that i've used ( I'e tried fedora's, opensuse ,scientific linux and now this) that does it,- not to mention as I say the bit borked mcc components not showing details of packages but fixed via update after install. I greatly admire urpmX as it handles dependencies even with web installs ( as does I think gdebi for ubuntu ) and urpmf is wonderful and is there out of box unlike other places ( though fedora has with yum provides ) . I like springs nice fresh look at grub screen and destkop so those propell the look anyway into a very comfy place Oddly enough while I have blasted with lack of QA ( admittedly not a HUGE deal with I notice things like that due to being a slight perfectionist sometimes ) for MCC I do admit that at least mandriva has seen to have basically ONE place to have a CC not a bunch like how most other distros do which I find very appealing and consistent.

..so see im not all about blasting when I see imperfection - I"m happy to point out things well done as well

I am not ready to give up on Mandriva just yet as frankly the other distros ( in my eyes anyway) aren't doing all that well either on the QA front. I thing that this is very smart and im glad to see it:

Conectiva build system <
subdivision of each section into four repositories: /release , /updates , /testing and /backports <

I really think those are going to help tons and I wish Mandriva well. I'm not saying I wont be using mandriva, as Im honestly debating which distro to use , but I do lean heavy towards Mandriva even with its current QA lacking a tad bit ( no idea about discovery or powerpack ). No distro is perfect atm nor is windows, but I really think mandriva has alot going for it. I have tried them all and find mandriva a well done overall desktop.


cheers
g.leej

Microsoft software is buggy, buggy, buggy. Your impression is orchestrated by the money they spend in PR, and money that they do not spend on development. Even in a comparison with Linux, Microsoft only comes out ahead after eliminating many bugs as "not significant." Microsoft has not developed a new concept in 10 years. They have taken much from others, including open source. Frankly, I would trade an hourglass for reinstalling due to virus or failure any day.

Let's see, paid developers. Well, I guess they could do a good job if they were actually allowed to develop! You see, they develop the product in secret enclaves with forbidden communication among each other. The reason Vista took more the 2 years longer to release (and it is still busted) is that every time they tried to put it all together, it would not run. Sounds like any development, doesn't it? Any development except that they release the product, collect the cash, and still try to fix it. No, I don't see the slump that you see. I do see Linux attempting to promote a standard that is not found at Redmond, WA.

As far as their QA, again, I disagree that they are anything to emulate. What they do have is an enormous fortune to spend on PR. Windows is buggy, prone to failure, and not something to count on in computing.

You must be joshing me. I am steadily becoming less and less and less impressed with each post you whiz by me. If it is your attempt to speak of mandriva on these forums, then you are doing them a grave injustice with your techno-nonsense. Nowhere in my message did I state that I thought windows was not stable , nor did I ever give you instances of where it crashes or what app crashed, so I find your FUD amusing

I stick up for what shows me to be stable , and atm that is not mandriva. I updated my system and it was in a hung state for several minutes ( says something was locked) it seems until I forced it to update which then it was fine. A app crashed and then I hate to 'force kill' it ( no sorry I dont recall what it was ), and instead of a smart handling of the obvoius crash I was left to wonder instead of what ubuntu, opensuse or windows does by taking that 'info' and using it to better the OS; is there a reason crash handling was left out ?

I also dont buy into this argument of 'paid developers' being the holy grail of sofrtware development, as if you really believe that, then Billl Gates was right all along saying the free software is inferior and will only hurt computer industry.

I have never in the last year + had to reinstall my OS from a virus, so IM sorry but that is also FUD,- and YMMV depending on what 'sites' you goto; myself I stay away from pron

You are trying incredibly hard to compensate for linux's failure by throwing insults towards a OS that yes I'll agree is far from perfect,- but at the sametime as I said a moment ago has been VERY stable for me over the last year, and on top of that M$ now offers 'windows defender' a program freely available ( atm anyway) to seek spam and virus threats.

I do not defend linux nor windows, - I simply defend stable , clean and well done OS's and I make zero appology for it. I applaud free software as to the obvious perks it offers but I refuse to ever be a appologist for its lazy or bad habits. No distro atm is without problems on 'release' yet windows pulls this off everytime at least since XP. I am not saying XP was not borked in some 'way' after release, but I am saying that its core components 'just work' and work well enough for 98% of the market to call it 'good enough' to stay with it and not seek out linux or even mac's.

You can garner from that what you will but I think its obvious.

cheers
g.leej

Whether or not you are impressed with "whizzing posts" is your own problem. I do not have your experience and can only speak from my years of servicing the product that you admire, Windows. Don't get me wrong; as long as Microsoft keeps producing their buggy software, I have a business servicing it. So I say "go for it." But as far as comparisons to Linux, you clearly are over your head. How else can anyone explain an hourglass which you can't figure out proving the superiority of Windows?

Uhhhh, how can facts be insults? They are just facts, yes?

[/trollfeeding]

Something was locked? What was locked? Did you ask anyone on how to fix it? Or give up just as easily as the message appeared? So you had a problem, and yet nobody else seems to, so that makes it unstable? So one user over hundreds or thousands means that Mandriva have to sort something out? More like you do, as you probably did something wrong.



Everything is free in Linux, big deal that Microsoft provides Windows Defender free, when in fact, it's about the worst program available for detecting viruses. No wonder it's free, who would pay for it? There's plenty of other freely available programs for Windows, that are in fact better than Windows Defender. Why not list them?

Also, don't generalise - Linux's failure? I don't see a failure. All I see is you've failed to make it work. This would lead me to believe you're not sure what you're doing and hence why you go back to familiarity like all the other people who can't be bothered to stick it out and learn from their mistakes and learn something that's going to be more challenging than an Operating System from Redmond. Incidently, let's go for Windows Vista and say how supposedly stable that is, when in fact it's full of crap that slows it down making it the worst version of Windows I've ever seen. People can disagree with me on that of course, I suppose a bit like you do with everyone who doesn't have your problems in making Mandriva work stable.

Maybe you also have dodgy hardware that is causing your stability problems.



Windows is full of bugs when it's released, and there are bugs in Windows Vista that haven't been fixed, and yet they've been acknowledged by Microsoft. Again, another piece of FUD about how Windows is supposedly all great and stable. Not only that, there's a lot of apps out there that don't work on Vista, yet are fine on XP. So why upgrade to Vista that you say is supposedly stable and everything works, when clearly, it doesn't? Why would NIST ban the use of Vista?

http://www.informationweek.com/news/showAr...cleID=198000229

obviously a reason for it no? Not only that but the US Department of Transport and the Federal Aviation Authority have banned it!

Where do you work? Microsoft?

Ahem.



[/trollfeeding]

If I started a post claiming the world was flat, would any of you waste time even beginning to argue with me? I hope not. Same thing here. That is one of the most blind posts I have ever read. So much so that it doesn't warrant any attention.

If it was slightly better orchestrated and didn't include comparisons of virus handling in Linux to Windows and other absurdities then it might have been worth the time / energy. This is not the case.

Stop feeding the under-bridge-sitter and lets all move along now folks...

I wanted to explain to all of you that this thread originated in a help forum. I inadvertently fed it. I apologized for going off-topic in that forum, split the thread, and moved the non-help portion here for all to enjoy.

(Inappropriate remark edited by Ixthusdan)

This is totally uncalled for when someone comes in here and legitmataely offers constructive criticisms with reasonable facts to back it up. I actually did have a crash and the 'panel updater' was fixed for like 10 minutes or longer ( till I stopped it by manually re-updating again ) saying that 'something was locked' and I presume that was urpmi. I did not start updater from CLI nor would I have since mandriva stands for ease of use so lets not go there ok ....

I guess its good I found out early what a bunch of stereotypical users you all really are ( not all that uncommon from ubuntu ) where if someone comes in and has the ,- oh my the audacity to call your beloved OS into check for glarring QA issues then their post is labeled 'linux bashing'. Well let me tell you something earnie, I"ve used Linux since 'redhat 5.2' so lets not go there eiher ok ?

Yeah Im a tiny bit appauled by all this and sure its going to come across in my post:)...does anyone really wonder why linux has a HUGE 5% market share atm when things like this happen ? )

woah well done mandriva etal...

cheers and good bye from a LONGtime linux user and if you still DOUBT that just ask anyone in : irc.freenode.net in #lemmings and they'll be happy to tell you how long I've been around. ( just so you know im not bashing from the bully pulpit of windows userland. )

g.leej

Edited by Ixthusdan

Please do not call people names in any of our forums. Express your opnion without personal attackes upon other members.

Something tells me we won't have to worry about him posting here again if at all.

Awww...you took out the spelling and grammar mistakes he made while trying to insult our intelligence.

Did I miss something?

No, it's something I should have spotted 2 days ago when I responded to it.

I love this thread, it's the best entertainment I've had for some time.

Yeah let's have it out. Time to expound the facts and not the myths about Linux.

Linux - 1
Winblow$ Troll - 0

This was the part I found most amusing:


I'm running Mandriva 2007 Spring or whatever it's called. All my hardware is recognized except my *gasp* winmodem. Windows XP doesn't work well with half of it. I develop on XP and couldn't tell you the number of times I have to reboot or restart my IDE because it's locked up. (Let's not even discuss Windows ME...or 2000).

And for the math-impaired:


From http://www.w3counter.com/globalstats.php?date=2007-05-20 (the site the OP pointed out):
1 Windows XP 84.47%
2 Windows 2000 4.28%
4 Windows Vista 1.94%
5 Windows 98 1.55%
7 Windows 2003 0.67%
8 Windows ME 0.52%
9 Windows NT 0.07%
----------------------------------
84.47% + 4.28% + 1.94% + 1.55% + 0.67% + 0.52% + 0.07% = 93.5% to be fair.

And most of that (84.47%) is what came installed on their computer and they are too lazy (or don't even know how) to install something else.

The funny thing is that he used an ID that plays on the word neighborly yet almost all of his posts were the exact opposite of neighborliness.
He constantly claimed to be a Linux user yet he was always pushing the Windows wheelbarrow.

Goodbye Windows troll, we don't need you and never will.

John.

But Windows just works!...


/me hides

Searches for Arctic with a stick
--------------------

To the subject:
Saying "Windows better than Linux" is just like saying the sea is dangerous just because you don't know how to swim...
Get to know the the true meaning of something before saying your bucket of water is safer than the sea.
(Linux IS and WILL be better than Windows!)

Ain't that the truth!

Again I'm too late for the troll feeding
My timing have worsened...

Trollwhackers.

Right behind ya

Although Windows is better than one respect "better" at being vulnerable and useless out of the box