[aRTee]

I've just uploaded my Mandriva 2008.0 review, first review I do in 2 years...

Give it a read here: Mandriva 2008.0 review.

One question: it got a bit long (not in the tooth I hope), should I split it over 2 or even more pages? Total page download with screenshots is over 3MB... (All full size screenies together: 38MB)

Any comments, corrections, flames or praise, please leave them in this topic.

I hope you'll enjoy the read,
aRTee

[{BBI}Nexus{BBI}]

*Expletive* good review. Screenshots are informative. You covered things that I've wondered about but never really had the time to try out. Your rant ( I prefer to see it as a 'Heads Up'), is spot on. There were a few typo's but I had so much fun reading your review I lost where they are. Very well done, this makes it into my bookmarks.

On a tux rating of 1 to 5, I give it :tux: :tux: :tux: :tux: :tux:'s. Well done :thumbs:

[arctic]

There is a mistake in your review, aRTee. On the new features list, you mention that it ships now with GNOME 2.12.0. It must be Gnome 2.20.0.

Quote

one thing the system installer still doesn't do is add other Linux systems to the boot loader menu automatically (though if present, MSWindows is nicely added without any user input) — perhaps it's too much to ask, but how hard can it be to parse the LILO /etc/lilo.conf or GRUB's /boot/menu.lst files of remaining or older system partitions and either add their entries, or at least propose to the user to select which of their entries to add?
Other distributions can manage that, why not Mandriva?

In all fairness: Only a few Linux distros do add other distros automatically, most don't do that. (Slack, Arch, Gentoo, Fedora, SUSE, Yoper, Puppy, Centos/RedHat/Startcom, ...)

[aRTee]

{BBI}Nexus{BBI}, thanks. Only just noticed some formatting issues as well.

arctic, openSUSE managed to get my bootloader info from another installation (had only Mandriva 2007.0, 2007.1 and 2008 systems installed), and even grabbed user info, meaning I didn't have to create my user accounts, it took even the shadow passwd file, so same passwords.
Thanks for the GNOME version mistake.

I'll update the review for these few typos and formatting issues I've found so far.

So few replies - is everyone else still reading, or worse, still downloading?

[arctic]

Quote

openSUSE managed to get my bootloader info from another installation

Hmm.. then they finally fixed that. I know (from personal experience) that this did not work for a long time.

[rm42]

aRTee,

Wow, what an excellent review! I just finished doing a little writeup myself and felt compelled to encourage my readers to read your review. You can see my writeup here:

http://temporaryland.wordpress.com/2007/11...kpad-t61-part1/

I mention your review in the final thoughts of the follow up entry. Thanks for sharing your experience.

[aRTee]

rm42,
thanks for the kind words. And the link. And for joining here just to mention it. I will read your review as soon as I have some time.
BTW did you actually finish reading mine? You know, you may still be the first!

I've had very very few comments, I'm supposing it's because everyone fell asleep or gave up or so.

Is your name related to THHGTTG?


arctic,
just an aside note: ubuntu manages too...


BTW Whoever put this as a sticky, thanks!

[AussieJohn]

I have read it fully and as Nexus says "it is expletive Good".
You have done a great job aRTee.

I have also fully read rm42's article as well. Also excellent. The two articles compliment oneanother very well and coming from two different view points, one does not replace the other.
I learned a little more from each article, I am pleased to say.

Thank you both for your hard work. Cheers. John.

[ianw1974]

Top job artee :thumbs:

[rm42]

aRTee, on Dec 10 2007, 11:01 AM, said:

rm42,
thanks for the kind words. And the link. And for joining here just to mention it. I will read your review as soon as I have some time.
BTW did you actually finish reading mine? You know, you may still be the first!

I've had very very few comments, I'm supposing it's because everyone fell asleep or gave up or so.

aRTee,

Yes I did read it all the way through. It is very good all the way. I also particularly enjoyed the hardware recommendation section. The thing is that since your review covers so much ground one feels a little inhibited from commenting. But, here is one point that may trigger a bit more discussion.

You implied that use of libdvdcss is illegal in certain places. From my understanding, at least in the USA, libdvdcss is not illegal in itself, but using libdvdcss to use DVD content in a manner that was not intended by the copy right holders is. In other words, if someone uses libdvdcss to enjoy watching DVDs not intended to be watch by users of your particular region, that would be illegal. If someone uses libdvdcss to make illegal copies of the content, that would be illegal. But, using libdvdcss simply to enjoy a DVD that you have purchased in your local store or that you have rented in your local video rental store, could not be construed as illegal in any way. Again, that is just my understanding, and I am certainly not a lawyer, thank goodness. :) If someone has conclusive evidence to the contrary I would be very interested in hearing about it.

This post has been edited by rm42: 11 December 2007 - 03:58 PM

[tyme]

rm42, on Dec 11 2007, 10:57 AM, said:

You implied that use of libdvdcss is illegal in certain places. From my understanding, at least in the USA, libdvdcss is not illegal in itself, but using libdvdcss to use DVD content in a manner that was not intended by the copy right holders is. In other words, if someone uses libdvdcss to enjoy watching DVDs not intended to be watch by users of your particular region, that would be illegal. If someone uses libdvdcss to make illegal copies of the content, that would be illegal. But, using libdvdcss simply to enjoy a DVD that you have purchased in your local store or that you have rented in your local video rental store, could not be construed as illegal in any way. Again, that is just my understanding, and I am certainly not a lawyer, thank goodness. :) If someone has conclusive evidence to the contrary I would be very interested in hearing about it.

The legality of libdvdcss has never been tested, however, one may be able to label it illegal in the US under the DMCA as a copyright circumvention technology. It's thought that libdvdcss is OK because of a certain section of the DMCA that allows such circumvention for software interoperability (it doesn't use a cracked key, just a list of known keys and then brute force when that fails). IANA, but it seems the issue hasn't really been tested - but some distributions avoid distributing it on their CD's (or at all) just to avoid run-in's with "johnny law". DeCSS, on the other hand, has been determined illegal in the US largely due to it's use of a cracked key.

More Info (where I got my info): libdvdcss, decss

[neddie]

rm42, on Dec 11 2007, 04:57 PM, said:

But, using libdvdcss simply to enjoy a DVD that you have purchased in your local store or that you have rented in your local video rental store, could not be construed as illegal in any way.

That would be sensible, I agree. But sadly it's not legally the case. Thanks to the DMCA (and its EU and Canadian cousins), even just watching a film that you've bought is naughty.
According to these crazy laws, the encryption on the DVD is classed as a "technological measure" to protect the copyright holder. And what libdvdcss does is circumvent this technological measure to let you watch it. This is why linux distros can't include it in their distributions.

From Wikipedia's anti-circumvention article:

Quote

...No person shall manufacture, import, offer to the public, provide, or otherwise traffic in any technology, product, service, device, component, or part thereof, that—

(A) is primarily designed or produced for the purpose of circumventing a technological measure that effectively controls access to a work protected under this title

[tyme]

neddie, on Dec 11 2007, 01:13 PM, said:

And what libdvdcss does is circumvent this technological measure to let you watch it. This is why linux distros can't include it in their distributions.

See my post ;) - libdvdcss has not been tested in courts, no one has challenged it's legality as of yet. So, it may be perfectly fine - decss on the other hand, is illegal - mostly because of that naughty cracked key.

[neddie]

tyme, on Dec 11 2007, 07:19 PM, said:

libdvdcss has not been tested in courts, no one has challenged it's [sic] legality as of yet. So, it may be perfectly fine

Alright, how about rephrasing it to "because of its questionable legality, this is why most linux distros don't include it". It would be a very expensive gamble. So Mandriva don't provide it, the plf does instead. And I assume other distros all have their equivalent ways of getting hold of it too.

[tyme]

neddie, on Dec 11 2007, 02:20 PM, said:

Alright, how about rephrasing it to "because of its questionable legality, this is why most linux distros don't include it".

Yeah, that's what I was saying :)